These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Final solution for botting and rmt - CCP Anti-botting software?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-09-29 02:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
We all are aware that rmt and bots are in Eve to stay. CCP is unable to get 'em all away from the game even their security team has been gaining some ground. For this reason I throw the forbidden toy to the sandbox and let you guys start chewing...

If player is willing to trust CCP with his creditcard details and let EvE client run on his computer, he should be able to trust CCP enough to let 'em run limited spyware in his computer also. This is my personal opinion and it doesn't weight much, but there goes it anyways...

Would you be ready to run anti-botware to get botless eve? Would it work? Would it fail? Would it be the end of RMT or kill the economy? How do you think the game would change? Is there any alternative solution? What could go wrong? What would be awesome?

Your turn - flood away :)

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#2 - 2011-09-29 02:48:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Over my dead body and / or unsubscribed accounts.

I want bots gone as much as the next guy - but like most people I have a large amount of personal content on my computer, plus a lot of work stuff too.

I would never knowingly allow a third party to monitor the goings-on of my personal hardware in any way, shape or form.
Stella SGP
#3 - 2011-09-29 03:32:49 UTC
Only if CCP promises not to steal the logins to all my p0rn sites and mess up my "fav" playlist.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-09-29 03:41:07 UTC
Stormshadow. Admirable suggestion but no. Yes I can trust the company but as we all know, companies are a collection of inidividuals and any individual can go rogue. Our credit card details are protected by international law, our personal information is not covered by all countries equally.

What might be legal (porn sites as the example - lol) in my country would not be legal in say, yours. Where does the law lay? In the land of fhe server or the client?

I have always liked the suggestion of Captcha or similar client checking. A flash in your Neocom says you've got 10 minutes to respond - but only if you're ratting or mining. Punch in the code and you're good to go.

How many people would accept this to help eliminate bots?


[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#5 - 2011-09-29 03:45:28 UTC
If CCP wanted to get rid of the botters i would be easy. But they wont.

I suggest.

Make a "I am human" test appear at every bounty payout with a simple math problem. Something like 3+5+2+7 = (?) and a 10 min. timer to give an answer.
If you fail the test your client logs off auto. If you keep logging in and failing the test a GM gets a message about it.

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-09-29 03:46:12 UTC
Captchas. Captchas.

Not sure if trolling, or just really stupid.
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-09-29 03:47:08 UTC
actually a captcha cleverly implemented at ANY docking phase of the game would be a great way to kill botting

click on doc stupid lil block comes up confirming docking coordinates human has to type in the correct answer to the captcha puzzle.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2011-09-29 03:50:03 UTC
Sri Nova wrote:
actually a captcha cleverly implemented at ANY docking phase of the game would be a great way to kill botting

click on doc stupid lil block comes up confirming docking coordinates human has to type in the correct answer to the captcha puzzle.



Speaking of stupid, that is some extraordinary stupid suggestion.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#9 - 2011-09-29 04:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: luZk
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Captchas. Captchas.

Not sure if trolling, or just really stupid.



I guess im really stupid then. Roll

Well the problem with todays test is that those are based on 1 picture, if its Captchas or reCaptchas or "re-re-re-re-re-reCaptchas", i dont really care.

Say it was a 10-20 sec. randomized .gif with numbers appearing and disappearing or numbers moving from visible to invisible on ponies riding across your screen. Perhaps a colour code could define the order, if blue then, if red then, if yellow ect.

Can we at least agree it would be harder to bot than it is today right?

Its a ungoing fight no matter what, what works tomorrow will not work in 3-6 months. But its still better than giving up on fixing the problem.

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
suki cox
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-09-29 04:39:02 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Captchas. Captchas.

Not sure if trolling, or just really stupid.


Not sure if bot farmer, who hasnt cracked captchas
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-09-29 04:44:25 UTC
luZk wrote:
If CCP wanted to get rid of the botters i would be easy. But they wont.



This x100000

CCP permits botting for a reason.

Any claims and so-called efforts to the contrary are to keep the greater player-base collective panties unbunched.

RMT controls most of 0.0. CCP not only knows this, they factor it into their business model.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#12 - 2011-09-29 04:54:05 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Would you be ready to run anti-botware to get botless eve? Would it work? Would it fail? Would it be the end of RMT or kill the economy? How do you think the game would change? Is there any alternative solution? What could go wrong? What would be awesome?


Software security 101:

Do not trust the client. This means that regardless of how careful you are with writing your software, do not expect it to work as you designed it when it runs on hardware that you do not have in your physical possession.

Software like Punkbuster only works as long as the potential offenders aren't smart enough to use a fake Punkbuster to send fake "client is clean" messages back to the server. Any encryption performed by software on the client means that by definition the encryption keys must be on the client, which means they can be copied and used to encrypt fake "client is clean" messages.

You cannot trust the client.

So certainly, all the innocent players will happily run your Punkbuster and put up with the errors that it introduces. In the meantime the bot users will install the fake Punkbuster which reports the "good" values, even though there are a dozen bots running on that computer.

If the problem of reliably detecting bots was really as easy as you believe it is, there would be no bots.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#13 - 2011-09-29 04:57:56 UTC
luZk wrote:
Can we at least agree it would be harder to bot than it is today right?


Sure. It would also be harder to play legitimately.

Any mechanism to "fight bots" that causes difficulty for legitimate players is not acceptable. If I'm trying to jump through a gate to escape pursuers, why should I be forced to respond to a CAPTCHA?

Then there's the issue of outsourcing CAPTCHA solving to Mechanical Turk or hordes of $1/week Chinese prisoners.

To which point, is there a game-ethics difference between running a bot versus having a dozen Chinese prisoners playing your character for you 23x7?

Day 0 Advice for New Players
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#14 - 2011-09-29 05:07:42 UTC
Good point Mara Rinn.

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
The Apostle
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-09-29 05:09:04 UTC
Quote:
This x100000

CCP permits botting for a reason.

Any claims and so-called efforts to the contrary are to keep the greater player-base collective panties unbunched.

RMT controls most of 0.0. CCP not only knows this, they factor it into their business model.

Forgive my ignorance, can you please explain to me how you would stop such actions if you were CCP?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#16 - 2011-09-29 05:09:05 UTC
Embarrased laughter : Final solution ? Snerk...

Authoritative statement : Every anti-bot measure that requires user interaction will end up causing more trouble than it's worth for legitimate users compared to the effectiveness against actual bots.

Mild sarcasm : As for anti-bot software addons... yes, great idea, have people responsible for boot.ini and several other lesser incidents gain access to code closer to the core of your OS, that will end well.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-09-29 05:13:21 UTC
Players run bots and buy ISK illegally.
The final fix is to remove the players, but the result is well no game.

But you know, CCP finds Bots as they can and that time and work cost money that could go into game development.
Everyone says it is CCP job to police their game.
Well they do, but if the player base wasn't filled with so many ......... then CCP would have more money and time to spend on other projects.

So kick your botting friend in the head, and tell him/her to knock it off.


EVERYBODY KNOWS
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#18 - 2011-09-29 05:15:17 UTC
Akita T wrote:
Embarrased laughter : Final solution ? Snerk...

Authoritative statement : Every anti-bot measure that requires user interaction will end up causing more trouble than it's worth for legitimate users compared to the effectiveness against actual bots.

Mild sarcasm : As for anti-bot software addons... yes, great idea, have people responsible for boot.ini and several other lesser incidents gain access to code closer to the core of your OS, that will end well.


Stop talking like HK-47.Lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg1gTas7OAA

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
Kimli
The Directive
#19 - 2011-09-29 05:19:00 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Players run bots and buy ISK illegally.
The final fix is to remove the players, but the result is well no game.

But you know, CCP finds Bots as they can and that time and work cost money that could go into game development.
Everyone says it is CCP job to police their game.
Well they do, but if the player base wasn't filled with so many ......... then CCP would have more money and time to spend on other projects.

So kick your botting friend in the head, and tell him/her to knock it off.




this ^^
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#20 - 2011-09-29 05:23:21 UTC
luZk wrote:
Stop talking like HK-47.Lol

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=15557&find=unread
Excited commentary : An ELCOR HK-47 !

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
123Next pageLast page