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Frigates: Shield tanking vs Armor Tanking, Shields seem superior
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Andy Landen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-09-29 02:11:15 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Just a quick question really - I've been flying alot of frigates lately and it seems that Shield tanking is much better than armor tanking. I'm specifically comparing Medium shield extender frigates vs 200mm Plate + rep + damage control armor tanks. I've tried the Merlin, Rifter with MSE tank and I've tried the Tristan, Rifter, Punisher with the 200mm + rep tank and it seems the shield varients always can take way more damage and can out tank and kill you despite the fact that the armor fit often does more damage.

Can anyone enlighten me as to some suggestions on how to bring the armor tank up to the same level ?

You are correct. Shield does better AND has more dps and speed with the free low slots, BUT ... armor excels much more when EW comes into play. Bring several guardians, several plated, triple EANM, DC 2 Recons plus others, and you will find armor easily holds its own. A 1600mm plate is much larger than a Lg shield extender. But where frigates are concerned, speed, angular velocity, and range are much more important aspects of its tank than whether it is shield or armor tanked.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." Albert Einstein 
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#42 - 2011-09-29 05:07:09 UTC
Which doesn't really count when flying a frigate solo ^^
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#43 - 2011-09-30 00:06:41 UTC
I have found recently that I have a new love for armor frigates ever since I discovered the Armor Hawk. I would say at least on the frigate level the two types of tank are fairly well balanced.

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Kadeyaa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2011-09-30 04:56:03 UTC
Andy Landen wrote:
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Just a quick question really - I've been flying alot of frigates lately and it seems that Shield tanking is much better than armor tanking. I'm specifically comparing Medium shield extender frigates vs 200mm Plate + rep + damage control armor tanks. I've tried the Merlin, Rifter with MSE tank and I've tried the Tristan, Rifter, Punisher with the 200mm + rep tank and it seems the shield varients always can take way more damage and can out tank and kill you despite the fact that the armor fit often does more damage.

Can anyone enlighten me as to some suggestions on how to bring the armor tank up to the same level ?

You are correct. Shield does better AND has more dps and speed with the free low slots, BUT ... armor excels much more when EW comes into play. Bring several guardians, several plated, triple EANM, DC 2 Recons plus others, and you will find armor easily holds its own. A 1600mm plate is much larger than a Lg shield extender. But where frigates are concerned, speed, angular velocity, and range are much more important aspects of its tank than whether it is shield or armor tanked.


And this is exactly what this threat is about.

If this is frigate vs frigate a web will not influence things too much, because angular velocity is for both people the same. The difference is only noticeable if one flies a missile boat because angular velocity means squat.

In the final analysis Armor > Shield for small scale PvP because it frees up your mid slots for prop + ewar + tackle + cap mods.

The ability to dictate pure range or excel at speed is always negated by EWar (jamming, sensor dampeners (!), tracking disruptors) - not to mention tackling modules.

For larger scale shield begins to shine because you will have either everybody filling these rolls with just one mod each, or having dedicated persons for the job. At the same time it allows you to fit a greater buffer and damage at the same time.

The Armor vs Shield debate is one where Armor will always win because I has HG Slaves. And yes I PvP in frigates with HG Slaves - because I can afford it :D
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-10-01 13:59:36 UTC
There are no guarantees with anything but armor can work well for you.

Something like a rocket Hawk can mess up a dram quite a bit and that's seen as a good frigate by most.

Load rockets.
1 web, 1 TD - optimal range script, 1 scram.
1 400mm armor, 1 DC II

Over 6k tank to your weak spot - explosive.

No you can't chase them around but a range script makes them come in if they want a fight - it drops their optimal to the 330m-375m range and their falloff to the 4.1k-4.7k range (150mm vs 200mm) - they have to be within 10k to hit you at all with guns - within 5k to hit "OK" vs little taps.

The closer in on a target, the uglier for a speed based ship due to tackle/web use but also due to trying to run circles around a ship at high speeds. Drones aren't too hard for rockets to take out and they do clock speed ships pretty hard when those ships cannot move that fast.

It can be beaten but it's a lot tougher than trying that fight with a shield tanked version of the hawk.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2011-10-04 01:56:40 UTC
KFenn wrote:
Wrong. Has a damage rig, also it's active tanked on top of a little buffer. EFT More.


You realize he has a rocket launcher on his fit as well, right? And that a single damage rig only makes up the difference?
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#47 - 2011-10-06 03:27:08 UTC
I've had some great fights with my MSE Merlin, but (and here's the twist) with two rocket launchers and 2 gatling pulse lasers. Usage is simple: Overheat web while afterburner-ing into range, then keep them on the edge of scram range and shoot rockets and scorch at them until they blow up. Should they get close, simlply switch to IN multifreq and melt them faster, but you do need to be careful of neuts, which is why I suggest staying at 7k or so whenever possible.
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#48 - 2011-10-06 05:39:03 UTC
Tank on a frig is much less important than DPS application and range control although overall its a question of balance, and you also want to consider your ability to catch stuff in the first place. Try to evaluate this with personal experience because if you listened to half the advice in this thread you would just be bad no matter what. Don't take peoples word as bond and assume they are dumb, make up your own conclusions based on what they are telling you, and how it fits to your style of pew. So many morons about it isn't funny.

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Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#49 - 2011-10-07 12:39:06 UTC
People do hate jammers so next time try this against merlin Big smile
If you are lucky jammer works enough, if not you will die.

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Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-10-07 14:13:44 UTC
Are we limiting the discussion to T1 frigs?

If not, then I'll say the active tank hawk is pretty mean for a frig. Does nice dps and has a solid tank to boot.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#51 - 2011-10-07 16:51:03 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
People do hate jammers so next time try this against merlin Big smile
If you are lucky jammer works enough, if not you will die.


I've had good luck with fishing griffins.... Although, I really don't think you need a tank on them... I tend to forego all tank, double up on jammers, and fit a mwd instead of an ab.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#52 - 2011-10-08 17:17:12 UTC
Dramiels are so easy we T2 gallente pilots call them a 3:1

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
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