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SO, Why cant capsuleers or factions shut down jump gates? First post
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Trading Unknown

Doomheim

Likes received: 18

#21 - 2012-04-19 23:40:10 UTC | Edited by: Trading Unknown

Gogela wrote:

JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:

Then how invaders are suppose to attack if they cant get into system.

Op is dense.

Hack the gate, or find a WH + use a cyno?

There's no point in shutting it down if you can just pop it open whenever you want (let's assume gate hacking doesn't take a tremendous amount of SP or time). You might effectively stop a solo or a small group without a hacker, but for large fleets, it's as if the gate was never locked down, making the mechanic a pointless consideration for both the defenders and aggressors.

If you put gate hacking at the end of a long skill training queue, few people will take it (mostly when demanded, I'd imagine), but large fleets will always have gate hackers, meaning shutting the gate down is only effective for unprepared gangs; but any gang wanting to enter your space will assume gates will be locked and will look for a hacker proactively, meaning locking gates down is pointless.

Making gate hacking take a significant amount of time (10+ min) will just serve to bore us, and really doesn't add much to the strategic game. If gate hacking took too much time, FCs would just send small squads out to preemptively hack it, meaning it would be as if the gate were never shut down once the fleet arrives.

Balancing this mechanic in regards to the topology of all of nullsec is also a headache, as I'm assuming jump bridges would give defenders a significant advantage -- something they probably don't need considering they're already at advantage being on home turf (everyone has their stuff there, POS presence, friendly stations, etc.)

Instead of shutting gates down, I wouldn't mind being able to put anchorable guns at them with a requisite I-hub upgrade.

Gogela

Epic Ganking Time

CODE.

Likes received: 3,461

#22 - 2012-04-19 23:48:14 UTC

Trading Unknown wrote:

Gogela wrote:

JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:

Then how invaders are suppose to attack if they cant get into system.

Op is dense.

Hack the gate, or find a WH + use a cyno?

There's no point in shutting it down if you can just pop it open whenever you want (let's assume gate hacking doesn't take a tremendous amount of SP or time). You might effectively stop a solo or a small group without a hacker, but for large fleets, it's as if the gate was never locked down, making the mechanic a pointless consideration for both the defenders and aggressors.

If you put gate hacking at the end of a long skill training queue, few people will take it (mostly when demanded, I'd imagine), but large fleets will always have gate hackers, meaning shutting the gate down is only effective for unprepared gangs; but any gang wanting to enter your space will assume gates will be locked and will look for a hacker proactively, meaning locking gates down is pointless.

Making gate hacking take a significant amount of time (10+ min) will just serve to bore us, and really doesn't add much to the strategic game. If gate hacking took too much time, FCs would just send small squads out to preemptively hack it, meaning it would be as if the gate were never shut down once the fleet arrives.

Balancing this mechanic in regards to the topology of all of nullsec is also a headache, as I'm assuming jump bridges would give defenders a significant advantage -- something they probably don't need considering they're already at advantage being on home turf (everyone has their stuff there, POS presence, etc.)

Instead of shutting gates down, I wouldn't mind being able to put anchorable guns at them with a requisite I-hub upgrade.

I like this suggestion a lot ^

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Fortune Taker

Likes received: 12

#23 - 2012-04-20 00:17:10 UTC

One does not simply shut down a Stargate, it takes weeks of planning, and the shutdown procedure is quite long.
This assumes that someone would want to turn it back on, which is an undertaking in of itself.

You could just pull the power, but then you would need to build two new matched Stargates as the wiring burned off in the others because the failsafes in place suddenly lost power.

Diablo Ex

Nocturne Holdings

Likes received: 265

#24 - 2012-04-20 01:30:04 UTC | Edited by: Diablo Ex

Knowing a bit of EvE Lore... When the settlers first came to New Eden, it literally took years to travel between systems at conventional Micro Warp speeds. The Jove Empire "gifted" these newcomers with the technology to build Jump Gates, which are massive grav generators that are designed to stabilize wormholes. As the Factions explored their regions of space, they built a network of these Jump Gates as they went by placing these structures at wormholes that were fairly short in distance.
The Jump Gate is limited in it's ability to stabilize a wormhole only by the distance that the wormhole spans. That limit is about 5 lightyears ( Equal to Jump Freighter range).

The BIG PROBLEM with shutting off Jump Gates is that doing so removes the stabilizing Grav effects and immediately Destabilizes the Wormhole. And as we all know, it's anyones guess as to when the next natural wormhole spawn a link to the two systems once again, and be stable enough for another Jump Gate to be anchored.

The best solution is to issue a "password" datachip that allows a ship to activate the gate, and I see no reason why Sov holders wouldn't be capable of treating Jump Gates just like their own jump Bridges ( which are identical to Jump Gates, only easier to transport and maintain ). But I would penalize such Sov Holders by making them responsible for the fuel bill and the refueling of this massive Isk pit!)

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"

Trading Unknown

Doomheim

Likes received: 18

#25 - 2012-04-20 01:38:46 UTC

Diablo Ex wrote:

Gate shutdowns would really just be 'traffic control' shutdowns. The stabilizing systems would still be there, but the procedures of sending a ship through would be blocked. Hacking the gate back would mean restoring those procedures.

Doomheim 1,240
Eternum Praetorian Doomheim Likes received: 1,240	#26 - 2012-04-20 01:56:54 UTC BECAUSE IT IS A VIDEO GAME JESUS.... [center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

LOL56

STK Scientific

The Initiative.

Likes received: 71

#27 - 2012-04-20 02:09:00 UTC

Good god, are you all relay this ignorant of gate lore? Hear is a link

http://community.eveonline.com/background/jump/jump_02.as

TLDR: gates are not Jove tech, they are revere engineered Terran technology. The Amarr have had the tech for more than 2200 years (and the other empires for several hundred), and it is currently perfectly understood by humanity. If you click the next button, you will get an explanation of the way the technology works

209
Wu Jiaqiu Likes received: 209	#28 - 2012-04-20 02:11:43 UTC Eternum Praetorian wrote: BECAUSE IT IS A VIDEO GAME JESUS.... Just asking lorewise why gates ant be shut down


Trading Unknown Doomheim Likes received: 18	#29 - 2012-04-20 02:11:43 UTC Eternum Praetorian wrote: BECAUSE IT IS A VIDEO GAME JESUS.... No. EVE is real.

Garonis

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 5

#30 - 2012-04-20 02:15:39 UTC

Small scenario for you... Your alliance has shut itself off from New Eden for whatever reason. A covops frig comes in, hacks your gate, and jumps into your systems. The covops Frigate then proceeds to help jump in covops squadrons via a black ops group.
They then proceed to recon.. cause havoc, and possibly try to take out system defenses (thinking Cyno jammers) once the system defenses are off line, a conventional Titan based assault group then bridges in and the real fighting ensues.

This sounds like fun to me.

Grikath

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 52

#31 - 2012-04-20 02:58:57 UTC

There is some stuff about gates in the lore and background stories

besides toying with grav anomalies and wormholes, I vaguely remember something about the gates "spinning out" a nexus line along a gravity gradient etc. when they are activated which eventually connects This reaching out is, however, limited by light speed, so while offlining a gate can be done ( assuming you can collapse the wormhole in a controlled manner) reconnecting the gates would take...years

Which is not really a timespan you want to deal with in a game...

Highsec isn't "Safe". Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already.

C C P C C P Alliance 1,898
CCP Spitfire C C P C C P Alliance Likes received: 1,898	#32 - 2012-04-20 06:55:59 UTC Moved from "EVE General Discussion". CCP Spitfire \| Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

Thutmose I

Rattium Incorporated

Likes received: 64

#33 - 2012-04-20 07:08:41 UTC | Edited by: Thutmose I

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

In the event of a war, you'd assume thats the first ******* thing you do to stop your enemy from attacking. Who operates the jump gates in caspsuleer owned null sec? Why cant gates be shut down? Where is the lore behind this?

in the lore, most of the gates were built by the empires, hence the differences between the racial gates. The do know exactly how the gates work, the problem is in the difficulty in connecting the gates. iirc connecting the gates can take a very long time, so after shutting down the gates, it will take a rather long time to restart them, up to a few months or more.

to all the ppl saying the jove gifted the tech, the tech was actually reverse engineered from terran gates, the amarr got them first as they had a working (only one side) gate in their system. the caldari/gallente had to work off broken gates in their system, and the minmatar were working on acceleration gates.

GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 5,563
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation Likes received: 5,563	#34 - 2012-04-20 09:47:00 UTC Wu Jiaqiu wrote: Eternum Praetorian wrote: BECAUSE IT IS A VIDEO GAME JESUS.... Just asking lorewise why gates ant be shut down because if the gates could be shut down, you would be effectively invulnerable, able to rat with literally zero risk, build all; the supers you could ever want, and there would be nothing anyone could do about it?

Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine. 160
Morgan North Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine. Likes received: 160	#35 - 2012-04-20 12:43:21 UTC Regarding faction and gates: They probably have means to travel from system to system without gates, or should, but not make it available to capsuleers. Regarding Capsuleers: 'cause the gates aren't yours to close. (You didn't build them)