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Getting minerals out of WH space?
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Bully Hedro
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-04-18 17:10:13 UTC
WH space seems ripe for mining, but how do people get their minerals back to the markets for sale? You can't bring a frieghter into most of the C2 (and I think not C3 either if I'm not mistaken)... or can you?

If you can't, then is there a way to move all the Ore mined? Do folks generally just refine it and then turn it into small guns for transport?
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2012-04-18 17:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
You can haul ore out of a C2 with an Orca. I used to do that. An Orca can make 4 trips.

Later I built a Rorqual in the C2. I wouldn't recommend it. I ended-up self-destructing for the insurance when we moved out to another w-space system. I barely used the Rorqual; it can compress a huge amount of ore very quickly.

When we moved into a C5 I used both a Rorqual and a freighter to move stuff. We'd get a random incoming or outgoing hole to hisec about once a month in our C5 or the neighbouring C5, which was big enough for one freighter round-trip.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#3 - 2012-04-18 17:32:11 UTC
There are two ways that are generally used, either hauling out the ore via an industrial or building a Rorq to compress the ore and then hauling it out. Refining in a POS has a maximum efficiency of 75%, so you're seriously hurting your profit before you even start.

An Orca can be used to haul stuff in and out, but IIRC their kg/m3 ratio is far worse than industrials, meaning that you get less ore out before your exit pops.
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#4 - 2012-04-18 17:34:01 UTC
We in Wormholes work twice as much as any other EVE Player. We use Iterons or Orcas to get stuff out.

We got the following restrictions:
- the possibility of refining to 75% only
- if we build a Rorqual for compression then its a one way only. The Rorqual will stay in there forever.
- someone forgot to put 5% and 10% OREs in my WHs
- logistics are a bit**. We can't haul every day.
- we are limited in how much we can haul out of the WH
- no stations. All our ORE can be destroyed or taken

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#5 - 2012-04-19 17:53:45 UTC
Even with only 75% refine, ABC ores are still worth more than high sec ores. And the resulting volume is quite small.

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Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#6 - 2012-04-19 20:01:14 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Even with only 75% refine, ABC ores are still worth more than high sec ores. And the resulting volume is quite small.


Yea it all depends on how much you are willing to lose. It has been awhile, but the last time i calculated, I think i had to hit something like 82% efficiency to break even selling the minerals from processing arkonor vs selling the raw ore.

The problem at the time was being in a C1, it was massive amounts of trips to haul the ore out of the WH. Tedious and time consuming and we just stopped bothering to mine.
Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
#7 - 2012-04-20 01:27:30 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:

- if we build a Rorqual for compression then its a one way only. The Rorqual will stay in there forever.


It's such a shame that most wormholes opening to 0.0/lowsec space from the higher class of WH can handle the mass of a rorq.

I know I built a rorq in a C3 and we moved it back to K space due to a lucky WH opening. It didn't end up in the best of locations, but it survived to be sold.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#8 - 2012-04-22 13:21:16 UTC
We use a rorqual to compress it all.

If our WH had a high-sec exit I would be inclined to just haul it out and refine it in a station....

If you can't or don't want to build a rorqual then use a refining array. You lose a lot of profit but at least you can move your minerals out with a (cloaky) hauler.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#9 - 2012-04-22 13:38:40 UTC
Good luck.

Went in and out of a 'fresh' C2 with Exploration ship and Hulk. Brought in Prowler to haul. Exit closed immediately.

Flew the Hulk and Prowler 54 jumps BACK to Ammatar from Kor-Azor at that point.


You can HAVE all the WH's you want. I won't be there.

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Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#10 - 2012-04-22 16:38:50 UTC
Breaker77 wrote:
Invictra Atreides wrote:

- if we build a Rorqual for compression then its a one way only. The Rorqual will stay in there forever.


It's such a shame that most wormholes opening to 0.0/lowsec space from the higher class of WH can handle the mass of a rorq.

I know I built a rorq in a C3 and we moved it back to K space due to a lucky WH opening. It didn't end up in the best of locations, but it survived to be sold.



Not if it was a C3 you didn't. Typo?
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#11 - 2012-04-22 19:57:23 UTC
We refined the ore in our C2. Then again, the ore wasn't our money maker. Better than Hisec ores, yes, but only brought in about 20-30% of our profits. There are WAY better things to go after in a WH. Gas seems minor, until you're working on polymers and all the goodies that come after them. And T4 PI. Among the many other hundreds of nice things wormholes let you do in a more localized manner.

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Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2012-04-23 09:18:47 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Breaker77 wrote:
Invictra Atreides wrote:

- if we build a Rorqual for compression then its a one way only. The Rorqual will stay in there forever.


It's such a shame that most wormholes opening to 0.0/lowsec space from the higher class of WH can handle the mass of a rorq.

I know I built a rorq in a C3 and we moved it back to K space due to a lucky WH opening. It didn't end up in the best of locations, but it survived to be sold.



Not if it was a C3 you didn't. Typo?


Wouldn't a K162 from a higher class Wormhole allow the Rorqual to get out?

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Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#13 - 2012-04-23 11:01:32 UTC
I think not. As I understand it, no WH will connect to a C3 system that is bigger than 300.000.000 Kg. The chance that a big enough WH spawns to a C3 is 0.00%.

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Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#14 - 2012-04-23 11:19:38 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
I think not. As I understand it, no WH will connect to a C3 system that is bigger than 300.000.000 Kg. The chance that a big enough WH spawns to a C3 is 0.00%.

What she said..

Wormholes always maintain the mass limits of the smallest WH they connect to. Otherwise you would have all kinds of loopholes allowing things like battleships into C1's and capitals into sub C5 wormholes.
K1Vis
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-04-23 11:27:35 UTC
I love mining but I also love WH's. In wormholes we have to wait for gravs. So we don't get to mine whenever we want or as much as we want. We also have to compress it via a Rorqual (expensive and difficult to haul everything in) or lose 25%. The 25% loss combined with what I stated above and also having to haul it out, makes mining in WH's suck. I t should be harder to mine in WH's but not that unworth it. Its just something to do when thee is nothing else to do.

You options are Rorqual or 25%. Hauling it out in a orca is unrealistic. Unless you barely mine. I fill an orca in 70 mins or so. SO if you did one grav it would take multiple wormholes. The 25% loss is the way to go for you. Sense you don't want to build a rorqual. It brings you VERY close to hisec mining profit though. That brings us back to "Its something to do in WH's when theres nothing else to do"
Bully Hedro
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-04-23 22:36:11 UTC
Appreciate all the replies.

About moving a Rorqual built in a C3 out of the C3. Would it have been possible if the C3 had a C5 connection and a random K162 opened in the C5? If that's the case, then it would take a while to wait for the right opening, but it would probably be possible to *eventually* get the Rorqual out right?
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#17 - 2012-04-23 22:58:40 UTC
Bully Hedro wrote:
Appreciate all the replies.

About moving a Rorqual built in a C3 out of the C3. Would it have been possible if the C3 had a C5 connection and a random K162 opened in the C5? If that's the case, then it would take a while to wait for the right opening, but it would probably be possible to *eventually* get the Rorqual out right?


Nope. Doesn't matter where the WH originates, it always has the mass restriction of the lower WH

Check out this list: Look at every one that goes to a C3 and it will have the same per jump limit

http://www.ellatha.com/eve/wormholelist.asp
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-04-23 23:23:48 UTC
One thing I wanted to add about the Orca that I don't think people realize or forget.

Ships stored in an orca's ship maintenance bay can hold charges (mining crystals, ammo, etc). So to get that extra bit out with the orca you can manufacture items in the wormhole (lose the 25% to refining) and store the charges in 2 extra ships stored in the orca (fitted for max cargohold).

Naturally you wouldn't do this if you have a rorqual in the wh, and you would still lose the 25% to refining waste, but it would increase the orca's cargo hold by something like 70,000m3.

Yes it's not the best solution. but IF you can only fit an Orca into the wh, have no freighter, or rorqual, etc. the 25% loss to refining could be re-cooped at least a little by using this trick (and you can re-process the items in high sec, sell, make T2 variants, or buy LP versions).
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-24 05:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
lrn2itty5

WAY more mass efficient than an orca.
Building a rorqual is a waste of isk.

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Frank Pannon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-04-24 06:08:55 UTC
On a slightly related note, lets say you sit in the Rorqual, and are compressing ore. What effect does it have on the compressed blocks to have the ore processing skill to V instead of IV?
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