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Hulk Pilots - Your New Standard For Empire

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malcovas Henderson
THoF
#181 - 2012-04-17 21:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: malcovas Henderson
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Since PVP knowledge alludes most miners (and greed seems to permeate all of you more then sensibility) I have elected to post a decent "Hulk Fit" for this age of EVE's evolution. ATM, do to hulkageddon, Minmatar's stupid high alpha and a blaster buff, everything is dieing in record numbers. Empire is no longer just "Not Safe" there are gankers online 23/7 in every market hub, and they will scan every ship and every shuttle as they fly by. If your mining in a hulk, unless you are in a deep dark system somewhere... some ganker is pretty much on his way.


So... Here is what a PVP guy has learned about mining in a fairly short amount of time.

~fits~

Truth be told, ganking in Empire may be getting out of hand when Jita becomes a practical no fly zone for freighters, industrials and ore ships. But that does not mean that you have to fly glass ships and except being fodder for the masses. There is a big diff between two idiots tearing you down with little not no effort while you're on auto pilot, and it requiring a small, coordinated fleet to do the same thing. You have been notified.


Whitehound wrote:
You should point this out more clearly. People might come to the forum looking for help on what to do against Hulkageddon and then think your fits are going to save them.


The OP's post (minus fits). Nowhere does it say "This is for Hulkageddon". It is quite clear to me, that this is not about Hulkageddon.

Oh, is that a sorry I hear from you?
Whitehound
#182 - 2012-04-17 22:04:15 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
The OP's post (minus fits). Nowhere does it say "This is for Hulkageddon". It is quite clear to me, that this is not about Hulkageddon.

Oh, is that a sorry I hear from you?

No, why? Are you sorry? I am glad you are beginning to point it out.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#183 - 2012-04-17 22:20:27 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
The OP's post (minus fits). Nowhere does it say "This is for Hulkageddon". It is quite clear to me, that this is not about Hulkageddon.

Oh, is that a sorry I hear from you?

No, why? Are you sorry? I am glad you are beginning to point it out.


Not only have you confused yourself about this threads meaning, but how the f**k can you read, ( and i'll copy and paste for your benefit) " Oh, is that a sorry I hear from you " , as an apology from me? . You are seriously a bad reader. No wonder your posts are generally twaddle.

I would say that I had been successfully trolled, but you are too stupid to even do that.
Whitehound
#184 - 2012-04-17 22:36:49 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Not only have you confused yourself about this threads meaning ...

No, the thread's meaning was to help people and many arguments were made with regards to Hulkageddon, Tornado ganks and what else. I will not bother going through 10 pages to summarize the discussion for you. The way I see it are you tuning down your position now that you have realized that you cannot tank against it. I then do not care about people who fly a Hulk, but then do not know how to tank against a single destroyer. I still think the OP's fit is too extreme, is only desperate and serves at best as a testimony for a Hulk's weak tank. But now I am only repeating what has been said all along. Maybe just try stop being mad.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#185 - 2012-04-17 22:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: malcovas Henderson
Whitehound wrote:
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Not only have you confused yourself about this threads meaning ...

No, the thread's meaning was to help people and many arguments were made with regards to Hulkageddon, Tornado ganks and what else. I will not bother going through 10 pages to summarize the discussion for you. The way I see it are you tuning down your position now that you have realized that you cannot tank against it. I then do not care about people who fly a Hulk, but then do not know how to tank against a single destroyer. I still think the OP's fit is too extreme, is only desperate and serves at best as a testimony for a Hulk's weak tank. But now I am only repeating what has been said all along. Maybe just try stop being mad.


lol you really must learn to read. Not only have i pointed out to you, shown you. hell you can read the OP's original thread. In no way is this thread about Hulkageddon.

It is you who is mad. that you cannot mine in safety while gaining maximum yield. You are crying that your hulk costs too much to lose. You are whaaaaa whaaaaaing that AFK mining is not safe anymore. Go grow some and stop feeding tears to the gankers
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2012-04-17 23:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Tank is pointless.

Stay aligned and if someone capable of ganking you warps in, warp out.

Can't stay in range if you're aligned? Mine with a buddy and fit two stasis webs. 75% speed with two webs on you in a Hulk is about 13 m/s max. As long as you both warp at the same time you'll be perfectly fine. Of course alternatively you could have another pilot in a significantly cheaper ship to web you and/or other Hulk/Mack pilots. This would work much better because you wouldn't have to warp the webbing ship out (and risk breaking web on a ship that needs it to stay at aligned speed).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Whitehound
#187 - 2012-04-17 23:04:33 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
lol you really must learn to read. Not only have i pointed out to you, shown you. hell you can read the OP's original thread. In no way is this thread about Hulkageddon.

It is you who is mad. that you cannot mine in safety while gaining maximum yield. You are crying that your hulk costs too much to lose. You are whaaaaa whaaaaaing that AFK mining is not safe anymore. Go grow some and stop feeding tears to the gankers

I agree, the fit is useless for Hulkageddon. Everything else you say is however just wrong. I am also glad that you are not mad any more.

o7

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#188 - 2012-04-18 05:19:59 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
If you like a thrill then sure, put yourself in a belt with your 500m ISKs Hulk and overload its tank and play target.


Well, I keep my Hulk and Orca on station. If I mine during Hulkageddon I will do it in Covetors and I will be using clean jump clones. But then again there is so many other things one can do during Hulkageddon like getting better standings through missions.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#189 - 2012-04-18 14:18:16 UTC
A ganker can still kill a hulk fit that way if they want to.

Why would you fly such a specialized mining ship only to gut its yield and cargo capacity to the point where you might as well fly something else less specialized?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#190 - 2012-04-18 14:43:46 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
Why would you fly such a specialized mining ship only to gut its yield and cargo capacity to the point where you might as well fly something else less specialized?


Hulk has 8000 m3 cargohold without cargo mods/rigs. And as already said tank + one MLU is possible. Also the fact that if they are after profit not many will throw Catalysts at you just to destroy tanked Hulk if there is even a small chance they can't get any of the modules or salvage. I keep salvage destroyer in Orca's SMB. Big smile
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#191 - 2012-04-18 14:54:00 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
A ganker can still kill a hulk fit that way if they want to.

Why would you fly such a specialized mining ship only to gut its yield and cargo capacity to the point where you might as well fly something else less specialized?

gankers will simply target the eight other guys in the system that are untanked
Whitehound
#192 - 2012-04-18 15:03:30 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Ana Vyr wrote:
A ganker can still kill a hulk fit that way if they want to.

Why would you fly such a specialized mining ship only to gut its yield and cargo capacity to the point where you might as well fly something else less specialized?

gankers will simply target the eight other guys in the system that are untanked

Not necessarily. Depending on the first attempt can one still decide to give it a second try. Another ganker might just use the opportunity to make the catch after the first failed.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#193 - 2012-04-18 16:14:32 UTC
Whitehound wrote:

Not necessarily. Depending on the first attempt can one still decide to give it a second try. Another ganker might just use the opportunity to make the catch after the first failed.


Gankers wont bother trying to kill something they cant kill. Especially if there is no profit in doing so.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#194 - 2012-04-18 17:08:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Gankers wont bother trying to kill something they cant kill. Especially if there is no profit in doing so.


But there is always those who have way too much money to burn. They do it only for lulz.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#195 - 2012-04-18 17:31:05 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:


But there is always those who have way too much money to burn. They do it only for lulz.


Yea but thats not till the 28thTwisted
Whitehound
#196 - 2012-04-18 19:26:30 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
But there is always those who have way too much money to burn. They do it only for lulz.

I once got ganked accidentally by a guy who thought he was still roaming through low-sec. He left a message in local "lol wtf" when CONCORD popped him. Lulz are for everyone.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tarrick Merdev
Fixers Corporation
Commonwealth Vanguard
#197 - 2012-04-19 17:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarrick Merdev
Mine in a Covetor, problem solved. Most won't gank you when they know that they will lose more than you. Even if they do, it only takes 1 hour to recoup the loss rather than 10.

The only difference is the loss of the Exhumer bonus and an MLU, which it sounds like most of you are dropping at least one MLU for tank anyway. If you drop that second MLU, then you pretty much give up all benefit of being in a Hulk, as far as yield is concerned anyway.
Page Starcaster
Blue Angels Mining Company
#198 - 2012-04-19 20:06:45 UTC
Is there any PVPer in this game even slightly concerned about the up coming nerf to minerals from drone POO and module drops?

Come middle of May 90% of the minerals in game will come from miners. What this means for all you anti indy PVPers is the more trouble miners have the high price you will pay for the ships you get blown up in.

I would not be the least bit surprised if by the end of summer the honorable non ganker PVPer will be hunting down high sec gankers just to try to keep mineral prices down.

That being said many miners, like my self actually know how to play this game and know how to avoid getting ganked without the help of some well meaning PVPer trying to teach us.

I have been mining for years, even spent almost a year mining in null sec, I know what to look for and what to avoid. True there is always a chance that a ganker could catch me unprepared and pop my hulk but the risk is no greater than a Null sec PVPer getting caught by a roaming gang in an expensive ratting fit BS.

So many PVPers think miners are cowardly carebears, but how many of you have the stones to sit out in the open unarmed with little regard for the risk. Cruising around null in a covops always cloaked up is so much braver?

Without the indy players the PVPers would have no ships to fly. And without the PVPers the indy pilots would have nobody to buy there goods. We all depend on each other to keep EVE alive.

I can not say I will never get ganked, although I have not been in almost two years, but If I do it is just part of the game and that risk as a miner is one of the things that actually makes mining fun. A good successful miner is one who can turn a profit despite the risk of getting ganked, by playing smart and know what to do and what to watch for. Fitting your Hulk for max tank will not save you. they are still to squishy. To suceed you need to avoid the gank in the first place.

This is one of the greatest things about this game. The plaque of gankers so prominent in every other MMO is not such a problem in EVE, not because ganking is not easy, or fun for those into that kind of thing, but because it costs them resources to continue it. They spend as much time farming isk for there next campain as they do actually hunting for targets. For the most part it is not profitable.

In most MMO's there is no penalty for death, you lose none of your urber equipment, And gankers abound as there is nothing to stop them. They lose nothing even if they do die. they need no reward for it,other than the tiers of their victims.

Ganking can be fun but it IS NOT real PVP. It does NOT make you a L33T PVPer. Gankers are not real PVPers but only wannabe PVPers that fail at real PVP and stroke their E-PEEN by attacking players that can not fight back or at the very least have zero chance of winning the fight. It can be fun, yes, but killing defensless targets does not make you good at PVP.

Yet the player who goes out and enjoys the PVE activity despite the threat from the gankers is called a carebear? What is the more noble player? the asshat that does everything they can to ruin the enjoyment of the game for everyone they meet, Or the player who goes out and plays the game they love the way they want to play it despite the asshats.

True PVP is lots of fun. There have been many truly epic battles in EVE a few of which I have even been a part of. But there has never been a ganker in any of those epic battles, they might actually die in a fair fight. True Gankers only fight battles they know they can win. As far as I am concerned that makes them far more cowardly than carebears, certainly nothing to be proud of.

I care not how many ganker come to EVE, because I know there is nothing they can do to be anything more than a minor nusance. EVE is the only MMO I have ever played that I have no worries of it ever being ruined by gankers.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#199 - 2012-04-19 20:11:09 UTC
Page Starcaster wrote:

Come middle of May 90% of the minerals in game will come from miners. What this means for all you anti indy PVPers is the more trouble miners have the high price you will pay for the ships you get blown up in.


It's ok: I know how to fly frigates.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-04-28 12:59:52 UTC
I would like to resurrect this thread since Hulkgaeddon is about to start (4/29). The rules indicate only Exhumers and Orcas score points. With that in mind, we have designed a fleet of 1@ Drake + 2@ Rokh and have been flying this without harassment. Jet can mining is needed, which IMO is not optimal, but it beats losing an Orca full of ore.

Please review. Suggestions and comments are definitely welcomed.

The design goals:
1) Incursion quality omni tank/resists - point of this thread
2) cargo space for three mins between jettisons - minimize clicking insanity
3) Acceptable yield - min/max greed vs safety
4) Rokh's spider tank each other via logi drones - added gank discouragement

Roles:
1@Drake = mining boss with gang links. Takes out rats and salvages wrecks.
2@ Rokh = mining + cross-shield repping (spider tank) via medium logi drones.

Loadouts:

[Drake - Mining Boss] :: cargo = 345m3
Tank using my main's skills :: 11.8K shield, EHP = 88K in fleet, sig = 329m
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II
Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher,Mjolnir Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher,Mjolnir Light Missile
Prototype 'Arbalest' Rapid Light Missile Launcher,Mjolnir Light Missile
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Drones_Inactive=Hobgoblin II,5

Comments: Drones for rats, missiles optional (but they fit and I just couldn't leave 3 empty high slots)

[Rokh - Tanking Miner - Generic Hi Sec] :: cargo = 2512m3
Tank using my corpmate's wimpy corpmate's skills :: 11K shield, EHP = 81K in fleet, sig = 500
Damage Control II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
EM Ward Amplifier II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Miner II (total yield in fleet = 862m3/min, so 2.9 mins to jettison with cargo hold = 2512m3)
Miner II (total yield for fleet = 862X2 = 1724m3/min)
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Drones_Active=Medium Shield Maintenance Bot II,5

Comments: Drones for spider tanking. Cap supports active hardeners, but I went mostly passive in case of neut.

Bottom line :: no fit will completely negate a seriously determined gank squad. Hopefully, this fleet set up will make the gankers look for easier targets. And even if they decide we are juicy, losing this fleet is certainly cheaper than losing an Orca and/or Hulks. Plus, none of these ships gets any Hulkageddon points.

Can flippers are still a problem with this set up, but are usually only an annoyance and no real threat. We were forced out of a system by one griefer that just wouldn't quit. We've lost some ore, but have incurred no ship losses.