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[Proposal] Corporate Industrial Projects

First post
Author
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1 - 2012-04-14 21:52:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
During my time in the corporation Dark Shadow Industries (who managed a very healthy balance between PvP and Industry, ie building capital ships), one of our directors created a corp exclusive website that managed capital ship building projects. Essentially, it worked out how much ore of varying types was required to build a certain ship, and you could add the ore you mined to that project and the required ore would then go down. It would keep track of what each person had contributed to the project so that when the ship was sold your contribution could be calculated very easily and the ISK could be paid to you with little to no hassle.

Having since run a corporation and tried to do a similar thing without the website, I can tell you it’s pretty much impossible (Well... its possible, just incredibly time consuming). Keeping track of who mined what is difficult.

So, I propose the following two changes.

1) That fleet logs should have options for sorting the information by player, by ore, etc. This will mean that at the end of mining operations Orca pilots will be able to see what each person has contributed that day/op and pay them accordingly.

2) That a new contract type (called Industrial Projects) be created that allows people to add ore they have mined to a project. To start a project, you would require a blueprint (which would calculate the required ore based on the project starters refine skills and the station standings of the station that the project was created in, as well as the blueprint stats). What everyone had added to the project would be visible on the contract and you could see how close the the project was to having the ore required to build the item. The ore (when added to the project) would be added to a corp hangar in the corp office of the contract owner (a corp office or a POS would be a requirement to creating an industrial project).

This is a loose idea, and obviously may require some changes or adjustments.

Please throw your support or criticisms my way. If you like the idea, I have also posted it up in the Features and Ideas discussion. Please show your support there as well (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96153)

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#2 - 2012-04-15 09:13:20 UTC
Supported (With emphasis).

Paying people per (amount of time) for mining is daft, and this seems like a pretty good solution. The corporation I run does, or has done, a great deal of mining and manufacturing. Trying to mine as a team is difficult to balance and largely a waste of time.

As I see it there are currently a few ways of running mining ops; all of which are inadequate.
- Paying miners per amount of time mining (more skilled players, people who are afk less, and with better ships are penalized)
- Creating everyone ships and not handing them out until everyone's ship is created. ( People who contribute less benefit more)
- Dividing up how much everyone mined and paying them for the ore (currently immensely time consuming and difficult)

Corp members largely contribute to corp projects out of charity in the current available systems. It would be nice to be able to measure their input and actually pay them like a real spaceship corporation would.
Ezekiel Delacroix
Das Collective
#3 - 2012-04-15 09:24:09 UTC
+1

Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-15 11:58:43 UTC
My suggestion would be to think of very lightweight ways that the client could help support 3rd-party tools that would implement the features you want. The simpler and easier it is for CCP to implement, and the more possible uses it supports, then the more likely it is you will get something implemented that you can use.

For example -- and this is just off the top of my head:

* Client logs of stuff you move, and stuff that is moved into your ship. You could then process the log file to generate the report you want.

* Drag and drop integration with the in-game browser, so someone could drag something into a CHA, then drag it from there onto your web app, and the app would get told "person X dragged Y from location Z" or something.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Rimase
#5 - 2012-04-15 13:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
The way I see things in corporations is they're motivated by all members working the corporation wallet in order to claim credit from their Shares value;
or have corporate Contracts set up.


Projects are like a partitioned agenda and when a corporation has a solid agenda comes about tasks for members. By using a system of Contracts, a type of Project will detail to the manager the contribution compositions required to fulfil the Project. Management of Projects then have to decide those condition's values, calculate payment and watch them be fulfilled within {selected time}.
Not only that, it encourages cohesion even further within a corporation. This is great!
To make things less complicated: these Projects would be ISK rewards only.

  • 'External' corporate Project Contracts would be public-shared contracts like an employment vacancy that cannot be excepted by internal corporation members. A single person or fleet, or even a whole other corporation could accept the contract and fulfil it. (Risks exposure of corp's strategies)
  • 'Internal' corporate Project Contracts would be shared contracts where the most contributory capsuleer(s) receive highest partition of the reward.
  • 'Private' corporate Project Contracts would be assigned to one or multiple corporation members, shared yet limited to those selected characters.

Types of corporation Business Contracts (ISK rewards only):
- Relations (measured by corporate standings earned of target-NPCorp to target-value)
(Condition: 'Private' contract minimum contractees: ##)
- Production (a blueprint bill of materials. auto-builds upon completing contract.)
(Prefix: Blueprint, Runs & Contractor predefines the material quantities)
- Reserves (selected quantity of selected materials or any items to be met)
- Security (a recurrent daily contract! - selected solarsystem(s) are purged of hostile NPCs, Standings-based targets, Singular & Collective targets)
(Edits: contract subject to changes & cancellations. won't negatively impact your Contract History)
- Logistics (multiple items from one station's corporate hanger transported to another station's corporate hanger)
- Trade (items from/to corporate hanger sold/bought and credited/debited into corporate wallet)
(Bonus: Efficiency of trade grants an increased partitioned-reward ISK value.)

Partitioned reward (corporation Project/Business Contracts only):
+ Partitioned rewards means involved parties receive a percentage of the Contract's rewards based on their level of contribution.


With the introduction of new contracts coming in the future, why not have some more business-focused contracts?

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Ruzyho
Z-Bound Enterprises
#6 - 2012-04-15 15:00:20 UTC
Support +1
Kaine Janeway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-04-15 15:02:42 UTC
Support +1
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#8 - 2012-04-15 15:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I supose this system could just as easily be implemented as a contracts system as the alternative. It would certainly keep the corp window from getting too cluttered.

Updated OP.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

DitchDigger
Hibi Proletariat
#9 - 2012-04-16 17:44:09 UTC
I agree with the guy that posted about 3rd party tools.
A simple API to track who put what ore into the Orca, or into a corporate division would solve a lot of these problems and with very minimal effort from CCP
Teshania
Silent Lazy Miners
#10 - 2012-04-19 20:08:48 UTC
+1 But

I would prefer it see it as more of a type of contract system, Where we go Need XYZ of minerals, The corp members click a 'donate to project button' and it subtracts form the total starting XYZ and shows what is still outstanding. Then you can View the log of who donated what to the project ^^

That should be a simplistic system Cool

We need a Bounty Button on the Forums

Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#11 - 2012-04-19 21:26:42 UTC
Teshania wrote:
+1 But

I would prefer it see it as more of a type of contract system, Where we go Need XYZ of minerals, The corp members click a 'donate to project button' and it subtracts form the total starting XYZ and shows what is still outstanding. Then you can View the log of who donated what to the project ^^

That should be a simplistic system Cool


Agreed. Contract system makes much more sence.
Skitterball
Skittish Endeavors
#12 - 2012-04-19 22:49:36 UTC
Teshania wrote:
+1 But

I would prefer it see it as more of a type of contract system, Where we go Need XYZ of minerals, The corp members click a 'donate to project button' and it subtracts form the total starting XYZ and shows what is still outstanding. Then you can View the log of who donated what to the project ^^

That should be a simplistic system Cool


This would make mining for projects completely easier and reduce the amount of headaches us industrialists get ><

+1
Ayla Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-04-21 01:39:04 UTC
Supported,

Having done precisely this in the past using google docs, I can vouch for it being time consuming sitting there with a calculator tabbing up what each corp member has mined in an op, having a 3rd party tool that is supplied by an API would make this so much easier. I don't do this anymore, having come to my senses and realizing mining other players is a more rewarding profession, but this is still a good idea for those of us who havent come to our senses about the dullness of indy work yet.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#14 - 2012-05-01 18:52:05 UTC
Unashamed bump. Also, original post updated.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Blastfizzle
The Chosen 0nes
#15 - 2012-05-02 09:04:41 UTC
+1
Uronksur Suth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-05-06 22:33:18 UTC
More tools for corp mining like this would be good, definitely.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-07 01:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Gevlin
head up there is already 3rd party constructs that have achieved this ---- Razor alliance may actually have something for this for their use

SO this could be a job for 3rd party developers

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#18 - 2012-05-07 10:01:40 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
head up there is already 3rd party constructs that have achieved this ---- Razor alliance may actually have something for this for their use


Yea, I know.

Arduemont wrote:
one of our directors created a corp exclusive website that managed capital ship building projects. Essentially, it worked out how much ore of varying types was required to build a certain ship, and you could add the ore you mined to that project and the required ore would then go down. It would keep track of what each person had contributed to the project so that when the ship was sold your contribution could be calculated very easily and the ISK could be paid to you with little to no hassle.


The idea is to make it available to everyone. If a 3rd part app can be made, it cant be that difficult for CCP to implement.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

fantazmythe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-05-08 04:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: fantazmythe
i also +1 the contract idea, would make things far simpler. and would make it easier for beginner miners, they could see a contract up and try to fill parts of it as they could and get payed for it.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#20 - 2012-05-09 11:16:12 UTC
fantazmythe wrote:
i also +1 the contract idea, would make things far simpler. and would make it easier for beginner miners, they could see a contract up and try to fill parts of it as they could and get payed for it.


This does bring up a new problem. With the system as it has been used when created by players, getting payed has relied on trust. If you create a contract that calculates people's contribution to a project, you would expect the mechanism for their getting payed to be inbuilt in the contract, but doing that could end up being a huge programing problem. I'll have a think about whether there is any really simple ways of doing that. Hopefully now that CCP have their new system for estimating mod/ship costs, this will be more feasible.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

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