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New Dev Blog: Ewareness for DeBuff-alo Soldiers

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Murashu
Dead and Delirious
Brotherhood of Spacers
#261 - 2012-04-19 16:57:38 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Date has been added back to it if you mouse over it.


That's one step closer to getting it fixed. Hopefully in a future patch we can get it added back on screen without needing to mouse over it everytime.
Skyreth
Victoria Per Conquestum
#262 - 2012-04-19 17:28:43 UTC
Now... it is not often I can say this... Especially considering CCPs past... but Devs, you need to go teach EA/BioWare staff how to be truly "boss".

Great work. Should make life much easier for me as a solo pilot, or at least more interesting.

Now....to wait for the new orgasmic missile launchers....Cool

PS. Great expansion guys. Keep up the good work.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#263 - 2012-04-19 17:32:51 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Murashu wrote:
Obviously you guys have plenty of time to fix old issues since you keep adding new issues...any chance we can get our date added back to the lower left corner?

Date has been added back to it if you mouse over it.


How? When I mouse over it, all I get is a tool tip that says "Open Calendar." I actually have to open the calendar to see the date, which is annoying as hell.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#264 - 2012-04-19 17:46:21 UTC
Kalpel wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Were you ever scrambled or affected by ewar and tried desperately to find the pilot(s) providing you with that much virtual ewar love so that you can return the favour with deadly missiles, drones or gunfire? Did you ever fail to spread your love due to icons being very small in the overview?

Then rejoice and read this devblog by CCP karkur and learn more about the first version of the new effects bar, released in the upcoming Escalation!


NO, NO, and NO!

I watched the video and this is going to make for more problems than it's worth! You seriously think I want timers and icons right in the MIDDLE of my screen while I'm fighting NPC's and other players? NO! no I don't!

Icons on the overview is RIGHT where I like them, out of the way and OUT of my sight. All I can say is that if my screen turns into an icon and timer bar with no option to turn this BAD IDEA off I'm out! and gone for good!


An option to turn off would be nice since it's redundant data (already in the Overview, just more in your face now), but if you'll get in a huff and bugger off over this, then we're better off without you and your drama around. :)
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#265 - 2012-04-19 17:50:13 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
This is doubtless a great UI and usability improvement.


But - as some have mentioned - it impacts E-WAR balance.
What comes to my mind:

-"softer" E-War effects like Target Painting and Tracking Disruption will less likely go unnoticed
-feints where e.g. a hero-tanked Falcon without ECM is used maybe in conjunction with ECM on other ships won't work anymore
-E-War ships will draw much more attention and aggression

In short: those effects will be countered easier. => E-War nerf.

What about the other end?
Imagine there are like 10 Scramblers/Disruptors, 5 Neuters, 4 Tracking Disruptors, 3 Remote Sensor Dampeners in your gang - how can you ever hope to EFFECTIVELY use them on any enemy?
It is easy to announce focus fire (though many fleets even don't get this done), but the coordination of different E-War types is way more difficult.
Putting a 4th Tracking Disruption effect on a ship does nothing!

What would be nice is some information about the targets as well.
Like mini status bars for locked targets. Or at least an information which of my gang mates is scrambling which enemy ship!


This "nerfs" e-war in no way since all of this information is already available in the Overview and will remain available via the Overview. No new information is being provided, only a nicer (for most) interface to consolidate the information. None of your above points are valid, did you even read the Dev Blog?

For your last paragraph, the information this bar adds is information your client already receives (a la for the Overview), but for information on how many people are locking the target and what effects they are applying do not, AFAIK, get sent to every client, so this would increase server/network load.

It would be nice to see what effects (other than attacking as you can see damage being applied to your target anyways) are applied to your target (such as your, and others', point request for spreading points/scrams).
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#266 - 2012-04-19 18:00:15 UTC
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Murashu wrote:
Obviously you guys have plenty of time to fix old issues since you keep adding new issues...any chance we can get our date added back to the lower left corner?

Date has been added back to it if you mouse over it.


How? When I mouse over it, all I get is a tool tip that says "Open Calendar." I actually have to open the calendar to see the date, which is annoying as hell.
Try it on the Singularity test server.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#267 - 2012-04-19 18:50:16 UTC
I love the change, but do have an issue. The icons are going right where I put my target windows (centered and just above the capacitor).

Is there anyway we'll be able to move the debuff location icons? Or, perhaps can we get a 4x4 box of active targets rather than having them need to stretch 8 across?
Tlat Ij
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#268 - 2012-04-19 19:23:30 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Again: From the devblog: "If you happen to like the 16x16 ewar icons in the overview then don't worry; they are not going anywhere :)"

Still wondering why you guys didn't just give those icons their own column. Seems like it would be much easier to implement to me and I don't see why it would've been any less effective.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#269 - 2012-04-19 19:49:15 UTC
Tlat Ij wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Again: From the devblog: "If you happen to like the 16x16 ewar icons in the overview then don't worry; they are not going anywhere :)"
Still wondering why you guys didn't just give those icons their own column. Seems like it would be much easier to implement to me and I don't see why it would've been any less effective.
CCP karkur explained that in her devblog: "that is if you are lucky enough to have your attacker in the overview".

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#270 - 2012-04-19 20:19:52 UTC
This brings another point to mind, why cant' we have different columns shown in different overviews?

I find the transversal velocity not much use in my mining overview. Someone PM me if there is a way to do this already and I'm just a big nob head.
Zemlin
Damocles Syndrome
#271 - 2012-04-19 20:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zemlin
soooo can I get a right-click target all function on those?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#272 - 2012-04-19 20:53:07 UTC
Good feature but please make it hideable.
It's just going to get in the way for people who know how to use their overview...

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
profundus fossura
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#273 - 2012-04-19 21:40:40 UTC
Great work CCP keep up the good work on the little thngs

+1 for having buff icons.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#274 - 2012-04-19 21:40:49 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
I have to say that I'm a little disappointed that you guys don't seem to find the blog name as funny as I did P

When CCP RedDawn suggested DeBuff-alo Soldier I was in tears, and there were even more tears when we put Ewareness in front of it ("Scrambled Webs" was also tear worthy suggestion).
Although, I knew that I probably found it funnier than it really was P

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Vhedrish Nell
Tesseractive Ventures
#275 - 2012-04-19 22:14:34 UTC
I really dislike it when UI elements I'm supposed to interact with shift position. How about having each EW icon have a fixed position in which it appears so I don't go to try to lock someone who's scramming me and find the icon moved and now I'm looking at a list of people with sensor damps.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2012-04-19 22:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
CCP Explorer wrote:
Lyta Jhonson wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Let's say you have a choice between two different versions of this system: A as it stands now on Singularity (per devblog and video) and B that would include more features and functionality; but then at different times since more development would be needed for B, you can get A on 24 Apr but could get B at some later time (and you would not get A during that time).

Why would you pick B?
It is understandable why players who don't know about CCP background on iterating whould pick A, but it's more interesting why wouldn't you pick B over A as a developer?
Because it makes more sense to us to come up with a staged future design, implement the first stage, get that first stage into the hands of the players, get feedback, validate or modify the later stages, repeat. Players get something tangible and valuable sooner and we get data and other feedback to iterate on the future design.


Wouldn't it be better to focus test on the test server? Perhaps if it was easier to get on the sets server more people would use it and you would get better feed back.

Anyway, as for the TQ server, i think i would chose B. I'd like to think that professorial developers are properly thinking about what they put into the game and can come up with the best way to do things without relying on the customer to point out a new features flaws, which just forces you to go back to the drawing board.

There is an option C though. Release your plans for a new feature via a devblog, get feed back form the players, then prototype/design the feature around that feedback.

To be honest, all these little UI enhancements feel like you guys are just painting over the cracks and avoiding the real issue, which is that the game needs a total UI overhaul... But that's just my opinion.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#277 - 2012-04-19 22:26:15 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Tlat Ij wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Again: From the devblog: "If you happen to like the 16x16 ewar icons in the overview then don't worry; they are not going anywhere :)"
Still wondering why you guys didn't just give those icons their own column. Seems like it would be much easier to implement to me and I don't see why it would've been any less effective.
CCP karkur explained that in her devblog: "that is if you are lucky enough to have your attacker in the overview".


I think he meant why didn't/don't you put Ewar effects in their own overview column... This would allow you to arrange your overview by ewar effects so you could move everyone scramming/disrupting you to the top of your overview.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#278 - 2012-04-19 22:41:31 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
To be honest, all these little UI enhancements feel like you guys are just painting over the cracks and avoiding the real issue, which is that the game needs a total UI overhaul... But that's just my opinion.
A complete UI overhaul in one go is an unrealistic endeavor, in terms of time and manpower required and in terms of code changes it would bring at one time. We have a future UI vision and based on that we need to incrementally and iteratively improve the Ul. That's the practical way of doing it in terms of resources and is proper risk management in terms of code changes.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2012-04-19 22:58:14 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
To be honest, all these little UI enhancements feel like you guys are just painting over the cracks and avoiding the real issue, which is that the game needs a total UI overhaul... But that's just my opinion.
A complete UI overhaul in one go is an unrealistic endeavor, in terms of time and manpower required and in terms of code changes it would bring at one time. We have a future UI vision and based on that we need to incrementally and iteratively improve the Ul. That's the practical way of doing it in terms of resources and is proper risk management in terms of code changes.


Yeah I get that. Your iterative approach is less risky but I feel it would be more progressive to iterate in chunks rather than one small thing at a time.

Hears to hoping that your current approach will lead us to a UI that doesn't feel unintuitive and confusing sooner rather than later, as I feel it's the thing stoping eve from being considered a great game instead of just a good game.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Kalpel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#280 - 2012-04-20 00:10:19 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Good feature but please make it hideable.
It's just going to get in the way for people who know how to use their overview...


This! or I'll vote with my feet! hehe

You failed to target nothing! ≡v≡ online ... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻