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The worst game design changes in the history of Eve

Author
YuuKnow
The Scope
#21 - 2012-04-19 10:16:23 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
I agree with most, but not all of these points.

I remember I put up a warp to zero complaint a few months ago and all the whiners came out of the wood work...What?. Its an entire galaxy of space..... by its *supposed* to be a vast and distance travel.

As for moon goo. Null sec is supposed to be a lucarative place.

Andrey Wartooth wrote:
Are a problem, but there are less than 1000 in the game. And they are being balanced in the upcoming expansion.


I wouldn't call nerfing the unholy crap out of them to the point they are a big pinata "being balanced". CCP pretty much threw up their hands saying that they don't have a clue what to do with these things... 'we'll just make them so that no one even wants to fly one...'What?

On a side note: I think its been pretty aparent that CCP doesn't really know how most of their changes are going to play out... they just try things and sees how they go... and when they realize they're messed up they have a hard time figuring out how to fix their goofs.

yk
Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
#22 - 2012-04-19 10:22:51 UTC
Some of your reasoning isn't awful, but mostly you just ***** and moan about how much better everything used to be. Which makes you a tool.

Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
In no particular order:

Interdictors-

Why they are bad: completely obsoletes an entire class of ships- Interceptors. Provides instant gratification w/ bubbles, invalidates/reduces need for static bubbles.


Yeah, there's role overlap, but that's not the same as obsolescence. Intys are useful.

Quote:

Jump Freighters-

Why they are bad: ruins the entire concept of a vulnerable logistics chain.


So... you wanna go back to when carriers did the same thing with haulers in the SMA? You want to have freighter-haul fleets from empire out to deep null and back? Have you considered how soul-crushingly boring that would be?

Quote:

Warp to zero-

Why it's bad: almost too numerous to list- radically reduces the relative size of the galaxy, removes speed differential between ship classes for traveling, removes risk, damages/reduces the effectiveness of regional markets, reduces trading viability as a profession.


Riiight, let's go back to the days when the server was crashing from the thousands of instas everyone had. Because the bookmark UI is just awesome to deal with in the first place.

You've got a bit of a point that the universe is too small, but the universe is always too small. I'd rather see changes to warp speed than a return to pre-WTZ.

Quote:

Jump bridges-

Why they are bad: mitigates the scale of the galaxy, promotes blob warfare.

Titans-

Why they are bad: over 2000 of them in game, no upkeep cost, little to no risk to deploy, etc. etc.


I've been a lowsec pirate most of my life, so no real input here.

Quote:

Moon goo-

Why it's bad: ISK printing is bad, mmmkay?

Feel free to add your own.




Basic economics - this isn't ISK printing, it's passive resource generation. Rat bounties and insurance payouts are isk printing.

There has to be something to fight over-- if not resources then what exactly do you suggest? Besides, didn't they introduce moon goo when they introduced T2? You're reaching pretty far back there son
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-19 10:30:36 UTC
Having forums:

This this thread is on them.
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-04-19 10:30:44 UTC
This thread-

Why it's bad: The OP has no clue what he's talking about.
He's just a parrot repeating what other trolls are saying.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Commander Spurty
#25 - 2012-04-19 10:46:25 UTC
/me rolls eyes

I will concede that there is brokenness here.

The need for people in Null to come to High Sec daily for shopping and be able to do this with very little effort just says the Universe is pretty tiny at the end of the day.

Null sec dwellers should have everything + Pirate versions of things out there in Null sec.

Why pirate gear is even allowed in High sec = why people will never leave it. EVERYTHING'S HERE!!

Clamp down on Pirate gear, CONCORD anyone with Pirate stuff (Implants, Ships, modules), suddenly people that crave that stuff will feel compelled to move out of the safety zone. Give people 30days warning, then BOOM, ships and pods.

NOTE: There is no forcing going on here by the way.
You do NOT have to :
- fly those ships
- wear those implants
- fit those modules
- undock

Learned the above points from a CCP video (True)

Just my tuppence

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#26 - 2012-04-19 10:48:52 UTC
Poasting in yet another crybaby thread P

......................................................

Bully Hedro
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-04-19 10:54:58 UTC
Spurty wrote:
/me rolls eyes

I will concede that there is brokenness here.

The need for people in Null to come to High Sec daily for shopping and be able to do this with very little effort just says the Universe is pretty tiny at the end of the day.

Null sec dwellers should have everything + Pirate versions of things out there in Null sec.

Why pirate gear is even allowed in High sec = why people will never leave it. EVERYTHING'S HERE!!

Clamp down on Pirate gear, CONCORD anyone with Pirate stuff (Implants, Ships, modules), suddenly people that crave that stuff will feel compelled to move out of the safety zone. Give people 30days warning, then BOOM, ships and pods.

NOTE: There is no forcing going on here by the way.
You do NOT have to :
- fly those ships
- wear those implants
- fit those modules
- undock

Learned the above points from a CCP video (True)

Just my tuppence


I don't know much about nullsec. Why do nullseccers have to come to hisec everyday? Can't they build most of their own stuff in null sec stations, POSes and outpost? Or is it the need for faction gear?
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-04-19 11:26:59 UTC
Bully Hedro wrote:


I don't know much about nullsec. Why do nullseccers have to come to hisec everyday? Can't they build most of their own stuff in null sec stations, POSes and outpost? Or is it the need for faction gear?


They don't

As it stands right now.
Things that can only be purchased initially from NPC traders in high-sec
BPO's (most)
PI (the power station or whatever it is called)
Skill Books

I am sure there are some others but daily runs a requirement, hardly.


Tri Vetra
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-04-19 11:55:08 UTC
ECM is so incredibly stupid
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#30 - 2012-04-19 12:30:02 UTC
The only thing right in the OP's list is Jump Bridges, everything else makes perfect sense.

Damn nature, you scary!

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#31 - 2012-04-19 12:31:19 UTC
Removing images from signatures.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-04-19 17:21:32 UTC
Xorv wrote:

Every CONCORD buff ever made - CONCORD is just so anti Sandbox, and every buff it receives is CCP repeating the same mistake over and exacerbating the problems it causes
.

No, the biggest mistake in the game was creating EVE, implementing the concept of loss and actually lossing items, then allowing people with a self entitlment issue to dictate that they have the right to nuke people into oblivion and its ok. This was so 5k subs online. Roll

Then you get CONCORD in its current form. TO REDUCE THE RANDOM ASSHATTERY that you can dictate by smashing up people in EVE...its consequences to your ability to smash up people. See, there is this thing called people and its more then just you...all players pay to play the game and if you lose it so badly the first time why would anyone continue to pay for a game they can barely play...while you pay to play the game with no consequences to yourself. Bad for business for CCP, and CONCORD only interrupts against unsanctioned acts against another player....don't want CONCORD then don't gank (cause you can still attack them regardless) or wardec them or GTFO of highsec where its the only possible to have CONCORD sticking donut confectionary covered fingers in your ass.

tl;dr - CONCORD is a balance and equalizer, it never prevents or stops. One player adapts to the point they are like rampant vermin, the other player can't adapt as well. So CCP has to buff them everytime they determine by their discretion how its being abused, without offending the abusing party completely.

Also, worst mistake CCP has ever done is not implementing total loss. If you can throw away a ship and it doesn't feel like a loss when you lose it to CONCORD...its not a loss to you and you don't want anyone to do anything that prevents your self entitlement of doing what you want of causing loss to the other guy (buff hulks, increase CONCORD reaction times, make HS total SAFE!). So, the best form of total loss would be in the form of skill point removal whenever your ship is destroyed; not just T3. You cause the miner to lose SP in ORE ships, you lose SP in your gank boat...but this applies as well in null/low/high where ever you can cause someone to lose SP when ever you destroy their ship without CONCORD intervention...because the SP loss would be tied to destruction of your ship. Simple and effective method to implement a feeling of soul crushing loss everyone...now time loss in the form of skill points would be the new standard and not an isk ratio (since cost is never a factor according to Tippia and no one wants a hulk that dies well with ****** bonuses to get a buff)
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#33 - 2012-04-19 17:26:35 UTC
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:
i see another gate camper crying. who has the buckers?


I've got rickets, managed to avoid getting buckers though

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-04-19 17:34:01 UTC
Why do low/null sec people complain about high sec so much? If they don't like high sec, then stay out of it. Is it that hard?

When I poke myself in the eye, it hurts.. STOP DOING IT!
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-04-19 17:42:03 UTC
To the OP...

Why do you play?

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#36 - 2012-04-19 17:46:10 UTC
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Interdictors-

Why they are bad: completely obsoletes an entire class of ships- Interceptors. Provides instant gratification w/ bubbles, invalidates/reduces need for static bubbles.

Interdictors let fleets be lazy. The problem isn't that interceptors are obsolete, it's that they're underused due to a shortage of competent pilots.

Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Warp to zero-

Why it's bad: almost too numerous to list- radically reduces the relative size of the galaxy, removes speed differential between ship classes for traveling, removes risk, damages/reduces the effectiveness of regional markets, reduces trading viability as a profession.

Why it's good: bookmarks not crashing servers, and taking away the "I have bookmarks for this gate and you don't" advantage.

Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Moon goo-

Why it's bad: ISK printing is bad, mmmkay?

My understanding of moon goo was that it was a market good, and no new isk was generated.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#37 - 2012-04-19 17:48:54 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
[quote=Xorv]
No, the biggest mistake in the game was creating EVE, implementing the concept of loss and actually lossing items, then allowing people with a self entitlment issue to dictate that they have the right to nuke people into oblivion and its ok.
ITT: Wanting to shoot spaceships is self entitlement, wanting immunity for your spaceships isn't.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#38 - 2012-04-19 17:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Interdictors-

Disagree. It's a ship w/ a bubble. A small one at that... those dictors are flying coffins. It's balanced.

Jump Freighters-

Agreed - Proposed fix: Remove jump drives from jump freighters, give them instead double the cargo hold of a standard freighter and maybe buff the already extensive armor and shields some more. Allow them to transport caps. Seems like a fair trade in terms of maintaining ship value for JF pilots while fixing a big logistical problem that should never have been introduced.

Warp to zero-

Disagree. Two words: Regional - Bookmarks

Jump bridges-

Agreed - proposed fix: remove them.

Titans-

Agreed - proposed fix: Turn them into Nomad Ships

Moon goo-

Agreed - Proposed fix: The mining moon mins in planetary rings seems like a really good idea.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Kieron VonDeux
#39 - 2012-04-19 18:00:40 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
Warp to zero-

Why it's bad: almost too numerous to list- radically reduces the relative size of the galaxy, removes speed differential between ship classes for traveling, removes risk, damages/reduces the effectiveness of regional markets, reduces trading viability as a profession.

Why it's good: bookmarks not crashing servers, and taking away the "I have bookmarks for this gate and you don't" advantage.




A fix would be to not allow BM creation on Grid with a Stargate and remove warp to zero.
Then you would need a gangmate to spot a warp-to for insta jumps.
Andrey Wartooth
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2012-04-19 18:04:11 UTC
YuuKnow wrote:
I agree with most, but not all of these points.

I remember I put up a warp to zero complaint a few months ago and all the whiners came out of the wood work...What?. Its an entire galaxy of space..... by its *supposed* to be a vast and distance travel.

As for moon goo. Null sec is supposed to be a lucarative place.

Andrey Wartooth wrote:
Are a problem, but there are less than 1000 in the game. And they are being balanced in the upcoming expansion.


I wouldn't call nerfing the unholy crap out of them to the point they are a big pinata "being balanced". CCP pretty much threw up their hands saying that they don't have a clue what to do with these things... 'we'll just make them so that no one even wants to fly one...'What?

On a side note: I think its been pretty aparent that CCP doesn't really know how most of their changes are going to play out... they just try things and sees how they go... and when they realize they're messed up they have a hard time figuring out how to fix their goofs.

yk


Hey, look here. It's another Titan crybaby. Maybe if you and your titan owning friends hadn't decided to go and blap that CCP subcap fleet these titan nerfs wouldn't have even happened.

Don't blame CCP for your poor impulse control.