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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#81 - 2012-04-10 22:14:19 UTC
So your BPO reqs 23/7 supervision that prevents you doing anything else? Ehm no sorry your confusing T2BPO which is easy afk ISK with the click fest that is invention. You also neglect to mention that you could sell those T2BPO's for a few bill or maybe even a few 100bill.

A few 100 bill sounds kind of over the top for the effort you put into getting them. Why nerf incursions when this guy made billlions running a few poxy research agent missions.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#82 - 2012-04-10 22:22:20 UTC
Boomhaur wrote:
Personally I think the OP is just bad at the industrial side at Eve and wants an easier game that he can play. Heck I started playing again about a week ago with 150mil in my wallet and right now I have closer to 10x that amount with what I do for isk (I do a bit of everything, industrial/trading/ratting/etc)

So let me give you a bit of advice Invention is profitable, very profitable. If you don't know how to make a profit doing it, I suggest you learn or give up now as the T2 bpo people don't control the market, we do.


Yet again that would depend on the item, I suggest you look at the CCP figures for the % that some items are created using T2BPO. It varies a lot.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#83 - 2012-04-10 22:22:27 UTC
And again, you fail to address questions asked to you and make wild accusations about people that have T2 BPOs. Are you trying to convince anyone of anything? Because it seems like you've done nothing but shore up the opinion by almost everyone here that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Anywho, no reason to reply to you anymore. Not sure why I bothered posting again. I suggest everyone else stop feeding this thread and watch it die.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
lol fourm troll
Doomheim
#84 - 2012-04-10 22:32:42 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
A long post full of inconvenient facts? He will ignore it. :/

Wow you nailed it, btw my last post also.
Haulie Berry
#85 - 2012-04-10 23:15:24 UTC
Quote:
Yet again that would depend on the item, I suggest you look at the CCP figures for the % that some items are created using T2BPO. It varies a lot.


We all have, which is why everyone here knows that, instead of actually considering the data in its entirety, you're just cherry picking the outliers and presenting them out of context, which is the only way they even remotely appear to support your position.

You keep citing "CCP figures". T2 BPOs were heavily featured in the Q2 2009 QEN. You know what the conclusion was? They're fine, and will have a continually diminishing impact on the market as time wears on. Kind of shows your cherry-picked outliers for exactly what they are.
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#86 - 2012-04-10 23:24:24 UTC
Maximum Panic wrote:
Needed to chime in at the continuous lol fail of the anti-T2BPO thread you are making....the game was different back then and is way different today. I think you are focusing on such a small aspect of the isk making in this game that it is laughable. Do you ever undock

I had 3 accounts with 9 toons all trained up to Research Management 5 for the lottery. To make use of them I had to grind faction/corp standings wtih each toon. I then spent every day running the one per day research mission to get 2x research points across all these accounts (I am sure many others did that as well). I only hope I never ever have to run another research delivery boy mission as long as I live.



So I played the game as intended and I got dropped 4 BPOs in the lottery accross all my accounts. So you are saying it wasn't fair that I played the game the way it was set up at the time and now 7 years later I need to be punished and just given back some RP so I can get datacores???? While we are at it you can reimburse the players that all played "wrong" at that time and pay them back their account subs. Hell why stop there and in game.....take your activisim to real life and give out reparations for slavery, et



Well, that was just crazy talk at the end of the last PP -sorry for that, but you need to look at reality. I still have all of my original BPOs . The best one only makes me a cool 100M isk per month in profits on a desireable item that is swamped by invention jobs. Still, it basically pisses off my corp mates when I am in high sec "builidng crap" instead of out defending null or doing cool ratting plexes or major corp operations because it is such low income generating activity

I would much rather be scanning down and running 10/10 plexs and making 1B isk per night off loot profits - which absolutely dwarfs any isk made vs. time spent on the T2BPOs. Hell on a crappy night with no loot drops I make 20M isk per tick ratting.....so in 5 hours of play I just equalled the best T2BPO that I own that takes 3 hours to set up goods and run and get the stuff to market- net gain for equal activity is then 40M isk per month if I run them instead of ratting. You should just be glad that I still make the low selling rate items for my other 3 BPOs and stock them at market at a fair rate. More often than not some speculator comes along and buys the entire lot out and then places it back on the market at 20% more price - maybe it is you just trying to make sure the inventors get fair prices

It is time to Panic.


Let's ignore the fact that you can make more isk by doing incursions, sanctums, missions, wormholes or whatever, note that if you look at the time spent actively playing, this would probably be a lot closer (set up your t2 bpo for a week of production and then "undock"). I understand how frustrating it would be to lose an advantage you have worked hard for earlier, but I also think you need to understand that things change. The game is not the same that it was those 7 years ago. No matter which side you're on I think everyone agrees that the way T2 BPOs were seeded was a bad move and perhaps it's time to do something about that.

You state you have no profit in a market "swamped with invention jobs", then how do you think their profits look? They will be a lot worse, and that's, in my opinion, the problem. You could also run your BPO on one line and invent on your other 9 and come out on top of all the other inventors running inventions on 10 slots, just because you don't do that doesn't mean every one else wouldn't.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit and I don't think removing T2 BPOs is the way to go. I also think it'd be fine to keep T2 BPOs as effortless as they are right now (in comparison to invention) because even if you own originals, if you're serious about manufacturing, you'd probably invent anyway. The thing I think needs changing is the simple fact that even with all the "effort" that comes with invention, the production cost from a T2 BPO is not even close to the production cost for the same item using invention.

The change I want, and I think many others who say they want the T2 bp "removal", is to make BPOs closer to invention in terms of production costs. How this would be done I don't know. It obviously wouldn't suffice to just increase the ME levels on invented BPCs like many have suggested because that might upset the raw material market in ways not desirable, but there are many other ways of solving that.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#87 - 2012-04-10 23:41:18 UTC
Bluestream3 wrote:
Maximum Panic wrote:
Needed to chime in at the continuous lol fail of the anti-T2BPO thread you are making....the game was different back then and is way different today. I think you are focusing on such a small aspect of the isk making in this game that it is laughable. Do you ever undock

I had 3 accounts with 9 toons all trained up to Research Management 5 for the lottery. To make use of them I had to grind faction/corp standings wtih each toon. I then spent every day running the one per day research mission to get 2x research points across all these accounts (I am sure many others did that as well). I only hope I never ever have to run another research delivery boy mission as long as I live.



So I played the game as intended and I got dropped 4 BPOs in the lottery accross all my accounts. So you are saying it wasn't fair that I played the game the way it was set up at the time and now 7 years later I need to be punished and just given back some RP so I can get datacores???? While we are at it you can reimburse the players that all played "wrong" at that time and pay them back their account subs. Hell why stop there and in game.....take your activisim to real life and give out reparations for slavery, et



Well, that was just crazy talk at the end of the last PP -sorry for that, but you need to look at reality. I still have all of my original BPOs . The best one only makes me a cool 100M isk per month in profits on a desireable item that is swamped by invention jobs. Still, it basically pisses off my corp mates when I am in high sec "builidng crap" instead of out defending null or doing cool ratting plexes or major corp operations because it is such low income generating activity

I would much rather be scanning down and running 10/10 plexs and making 1B isk per night off loot profits - which absolutely dwarfs any isk made vs. time spent on the T2BPOs. Hell on a crappy night with no loot drops I make 20M isk per tick ratting.....so in 5 hours of play I just equalled the best T2BPO that I own that takes 3 hours to set up goods and run and get the stuff to market- net gain for equal activity is then 40M isk per month if I run them instead of ratting. You should just be glad that I still make the low selling rate items for my other 3 BPOs and stock them at market at a fair rate. More often than not some speculator comes along and buys the entire lot out and then places it back on the market at 20% more price - maybe it is you just trying to make sure the inventors get fair prices

It is time to Panic.


Let's ignore the fact that you can make more isk by doing incursions, sanctums, missions, wormholes or whatever, note that if you look at the time spent actively playing, this would probably be a lot closer (set up your t2 bpo for a week of production and then "undock"). I understand how frustrating it would be to lose an advantage you have worked hard for earlier, but I also think you need to understand that things change. The game is not the same that it was those 7 years ago. No matter which side you're on I think everyone agrees that the way T2 BPOs were seeded was a bad move and perhaps it's time to do something about that.

You state you have no profit in a market "swamped with invention jobs", then how do you think their profits look? They will be a lot worse, and that's, in my opinion, the problem. You could also run your BPO on one line and invent on your other 9 and come out on top of all the other inventors running inventions on 10 slots, just because you don't do that doesn't mean every one else wouldn't.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit and I don't think removing T2 BPOs is the way to go. I also think it'd be fine to keep T2 BPOs as effortless as they are right now (in comparison to invention) because even if you own originals, if you're serious about manufacturing, you'd probably invent anyway. The thing I think needs changing is the simple fact that even with all the "effort" that comes with invention, the production cost from a T2 BPO is not even close to the production cost for the same item using invention.

The change I want, and I think many others who say they want the T2 bp "removal", is to make BPOs closer to invention in terms of production costs. How this would be done I don't know. It obviously wouldn't suffice to just increase the ME levels on invented BPCs like many have suggested because that might upset the raw material market in ways not desirable, but there are many other ways of solving that.



Bring BPO's down to the same profit of BPC's by reducing efficency's to match the cost of invention?
Cardval Simalia
Doomheim
#88 - 2012-04-19 10:25:19 UTC
I always wondered how people got T2BPO's kinda sux knowing that most got theirs easily and now you have to pay them billions to get one. Also invention should be made to undercut the BPO to make it worth while to invent.
sodney
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2012-04-19 12:20:52 UTC  |  Edited by: sodney
Since there are no new BPO´s getting brought into the game and BPO`s that are either located on banned acocunts or abandoned inactive Accounts or even getting destroyed for whatever reason are NOT getting replaced, T2 BPO`s will slowly but surely leave the game, anyway

If you only compare buildcost between a invention made T2 item and and a item thats made of a BPO, I agree that a T2 BPO must look totally OP. But If you run the numbers, and figure that you can only produce a very limited amount of them, it doesnt look that great anymore. Even "profitable" rated T2 Ship BPO`s rarely make more than 60-70 mil per day.

At the moment, if ppl actually HAVE the money, they can purchase a T2 just by checking forums or public contracts very easily, and just because they became much more valuable over time (and patches) it doesnt make them unfair, since that applies to litteraly any item in this game aswell

At the end of the day this game would become boring very quickly, if there wouldnt be any rare items at all, and no other goals to achieve than some numbers (either pure isk or kills)



Quote:
Still selling [T2H8R] shares. 1M each and all proceeds go towards the purchase and trashing of T2 BPOs

If you really want to see T2 BPOs starting to be removed from the game then this is how you do it. We're about halfway to the first one visiting the recycler

Link in sig. Do it!


so you want to make the hated T2 BPO owners even more rich by buying their BPO´s to their conditions and prices, just to destroy them? Or why cant ppl buy affordable T2 BPO`s and trash them by themselves? Sorry this doesnt look as a scam, it screams for it!
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#90 - 2012-04-19 13:56:45 UTC
+1

Or add a new way to get originals fairly.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#91 - 2012-04-19 22:13:09 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
+1

Or add a new way to get originals fairly.


Last thing we need is more of them a swift removal is what is required.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#92 - 2012-04-20 06:36:35 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:
+1

Or add a new way to get originals fairly.


Last thing we need is more of them a swift removal is what is required.


Well whats the problem in it if everyone could get one some way?

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#93 - 2012-04-20 10:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Dantreb
Cardval Simalia wrote:
I always wondered how people got T2BPO's kinda sux knowing that most got theirs easily and now you have to pay them billions to get one. Also invention should be made to undercut the BPO to make it worth while to invent.


Never got a bpo from agent, I bought them all. I still buy them. When I started EVE, I bet that Tech 2 would be the future and soon started a POS network for T2 components wich extended to 35 POS in Alparena 0.1 system. I run that network from 2005 to 2007.
I made my wealth selling T2 comps to T2 bpo owners and started buying T2 ship bpos for myself. When invention was implemented I had something like 35.000.000 T2 components in stock, I made a killing by selling them at high prices to the new upcoming inventors. I bought more T2 ship bpos

I invented also and produced thousands of ships this way. I bought even more T2 ship bpos thanks to invention
What is killing invention now are not the T2 bpos but the moon material prices. When I made inventions I produced regularly from ME-3 T2 ship bpcs. Now you don't make a profit from ME:-1/ME:-2 because the wastage factor has become too expansive

It's fun for me to collect T2 ship bpos, there is nothing as expansive to collect in EVE, I don't care about titans and officer mods... it's even funnier to know that it bothers other players, I don't need to kill hulks and industrials to grief people, I buy and collect T2 bpos ! Big smile

I'm bored to read these stupid "remove T2 bpos" threads, the hater posters don't even understand what they talk about, bad faith is everywhere in their posts

Inventors would better ask to implement the possibility to invent Adrestias, Vangels, Mimirs... I think it's very unfair that these wonders are so rare

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#94 - 2012-04-20 11:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Lara Dantreb wrote:
Cardval Simalia wrote:
I always wondered how people got T2BPO's kinda sux knowing that most got theirs easily and now you have to pay them billions to get one. Also invention should be made to undercut the BPO to make it worth while to invent.


Never got a bpo from agent, I bought them all. I still buy them. When I started EVE, I bet that Tech 2 would be the future and soon started a POS network for T2 components wich extended to 35 POS in Alparena 0.1 system. I run that network from 2005 to 2007.
I made my wealth selling T2 comps to T2 bpo owners and started buying T2 ship bpos for myself. When invention was implemented I had something like 35.000.000 T2 components in stock, I made a killing by selling them at high prices to the new upcoming inventors. I bought more T2 ship bpos

I invented also and produced thousands of ships this way. I bought even more T2 ship bpos thanks to invention
What is killing invention now are not the T2 bpos but the moon material prices. When I made inventions I produced regularly from ME-3 T2 ship bpcs. Now you don't make a profit from ME:-1/ME:-2 because the wastage factor has become too expansive

It's fun for me to collect T2 ship bpos, there is nothing as expansive to collect in EVE, I don't care about titans and officer mods... it's even funnier to know that it bothers other players, I don't need to kill hulks and industrials to grief people, I buy and collect T2 bpos ! Big smile

I'm bored to read these stupid "remove T2 bpos" threads, the hater posters don't even understand what they talk about, bad faith is everywhere in their posts

Inventors would better ask to implement the possibility to invent Adrestias, Vangels, Mimirs... I think it's very unfair that these wonders are so rare


Yet again I don't mean to attack those who bought or worked for their BPO as my post details. However I do think those that were gifted them should be removed. They are OP and CCP's releascing of select stats proves it.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-04-20 13:22:24 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
They are OP and CCP's releascing of select stats proves it.


Which stats are these?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2012-04-20 13:29:35 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
nom nom nom MOAR TEARS!


Quotes from supporters of T2BPO. As you can see they are idiots. Still not a single reason for keeping them not one.

1st and enough reason: they are exist already. So YOU have to give good reasons why those T2BPOs should disappear.

By now you only throwing some kind of crap about CCP pets, mafia and other tales. Give 1(!!!) good reason then we will talk. Noone wants to listen to your nightmares.

Elsewere - you ARE troll. Gratz.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#97 - 2012-04-20 13:35:09 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Stella SGP wrote:
nom nom nom MOAR TEARS!


Quotes from supporters of T2BPO. As you can see they are idiots. Still not a single reason for keeping them not one.

1st and enough reason: they are exist already. So YOU have to give good reasons why those T2BPOs should disappear.

By now you only throwing some kind of crap about CCP pets, mafia and other tales. Give 1(!!!) good reason then we will talk. Noone wants to listen to your nightmares.

Elsewere - you ARE troll. Gratz.


Bots exist lets keep them?

STFU

Next question?
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#98 - 2012-04-20 15:02:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Dantreb
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Bots exist lets keep them?

STFU

Next question?


Bots are against EULA. Compare what can be compared.

Anyway, reading your posts I see a general lack of sense, a will to judge from a very partial knowledge of EVE Online history and gameplay, and a dire misunderstanding of the game mechanics about how industry works and what inflation is.


EDIT : forgot to mention that I'm reading posts like yours for almost 6 years now. So far what has been removed are the posters, the T2 bpos are still there . I bet you will remove yourself from EVE ages before any T2 bpo gets touched by CCP Big smile

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Andar Makanen
HISec Seniors Clan III
#99 - 2012-04-22 13:13:48 UTC
Maybe it was locked because it's beating a dead horse.
Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-04-23 04:56:37 UTC
So tired of seeing these proposals in here that I've submitted a proposal to the Features & Ideas Discussion to have them banned from this forum. I don't even have the energy for a sarcastic, witty reply.

Like I've said before...

"Katerwaul" wrote:
I'm glad I missed all of the drama that ensued during my hiatus last year and avoided the invidia and avaritia that seems to have poisoned so many with such ira.

The dead horse became a bag of glue long ago. Feel free to stop kicking it whenever you'd like.
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.