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New Dev Blog: Ewareness for DeBuff-alo Soldiers

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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#201 - 2012-04-19 07:07:26 UTC
BCK wrote:
Ok I hate to be the one negative nancy, but as a jammer pilot (which means I am inherently squishy) this kinda scares the poop out of me. It means that not only am I already the clear primary to the opposing FC, but now every single person that I attempt to jam will have an extra shiny new notification of my efforts and make me extremely easy to counter. Like instapop every time I attempt to jam. As if it isn't bad enough to be flying a blackbird or falcon or rook

Secondly...Am I the only person who has spent the last couple of years learning to customize my overview correctly? I am of the opinion that if you can't read your overview, or if you have it set so narrow that you don't see all of the crucial info being displayed there (that CCP took the time to not only build concisely, but fully customizeable), you really should not be pvping. I live and breathe overview. Because I have to. Just like everyone else. If you can't see ewar on overview, widen it

Furthermore, as a jammer pilot my only real defense is either my EWAR itself, or the safety of the rest of the fleet clogging up the enemies overview. As I am not a primary DPS dealer, nor a tank, it seems like I am being punished. There is no shiney new pop up for DPS guys shooting you. So they will be the only ones with the anonymity of the fleet blobbing up the overview. But now my squishy butt is going to stick out like a sore thumb as soon as I attempt to do my job. It sounds like the devs really want alot of dead jam boats. I understand that Caldari ewar is OP compared to the other races, but that is why every race has a specialized eccm option that they can fit if they don't want to get jammed. There are alot of ewar options, but honestly not many are regularly used other than jamming. I really believe that this is going to unfairly balance the game against me and my kind. Jam pilots are a fairly rare breed and we are acutely aware of how squishy we are and how much everyone else hates us; this new feature will seriously dissuade new pilots from pursuing a career as a jammer. They know that if they do, they will be in for a ton of losses. It's a hard sell to tell someone "Yeah, well you ARE going to lose your ship tonight when we go out pvping. Just like every other night. Sorry bud, that's the new life of a jammer. Oh and I'm not buying you a 19th falcon. Sorry. Fly a blackbird."


I'm guessing you might not have been on the recieving end of a small gang with EWAR support anytime recently. The very fact that you fly a fit and role that gives you plenty of time to read your overview and see who is doing what suggests that you aren't even familiar with what the guys in the fray are doing or have time to notice

Experience will help someone to know when and what, and even where their attackers are and what they are doing to some extent and some people are just damn good at it, but often a player on the recieving end of a sudden onslaught really doesn't know what is coming from where.

So here is what is really going to happen. The experienced guys are going to continue ignoring you because you are just not always that important, and the inexperienced guys are probably going to try shooting at you in some desperate effort to survive.

Chances are they are still going to die, you'll adapt, and things will go back to normal except newbs will be better prepared. Sound good?

Anyway, it may change a few things but one element will always be the same: The experienced pilots will continue doing what they've always done. At least, I'm pretty sure they will.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Avraham Avinu
Children of Noah
#202 - 2012-04-19 07:08:08 UTC
Feedback
The new EWAR seems that it would be hard to select from when a new EWAR that is not on the list is applied (trying to click a moving target). Instead of auto adjusting and autoscrolling the entire list when a new EWAR is added to the list, maybe you should just add the new EWAR to alternating outer edges. Outer Right, outer left, outer right, outer left, etc. as EWAR is applied. Actually, this would be hard to implement the deletion...

How about the list locks when you hover over it, similar to the Overview lock when you on hover event?
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#203 - 2012-04-19 07:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
This is an excellent thing.

I would however suggest that the icons that are displayed have some kind of "danger" symbolism attached to them. At the moment they pretty much look like your own icons in your med slots.

A flashing red border, or some kind of hint that those modules are attacking you and are dangerous. Not to hard or loud though, I'd prefer it be all subtle like.

I don't like the idea of us being able to see the circle timers of enemies, after all, why would we know.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#204 - 2012-04-19 07:50:19 UTC
I take full credit for this feature!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=591690#post591690

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#205 - 2012-04-19 07:51:16 UTC
Can I haz 8 of those super lazers plz plz plz plz :P


oh yeah cool icons and new content btw Twisted

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Hyperforce99
Boosh Fleet
#206 - 2012-04-19 07:54:15 UTC
I would like to see the timers be places on the icons, similiar like how cooldowns are displayed on your modules.
So you can see a red circle sweep around until its gone instead of the "Miscellaneous" white bar unfolding.
Evet Morrel
Doomheim
#207 - 2012-04-19 09:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Evet Morrel
This is great thanks,

(it would be great to be able to enable/disable an alert when e-war is applied or is broken, because eve has sound). +1
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2012-04-19 09:43:37 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:

2. Circle timers are mandatory! I don't think this needs explanation.


WHAT?? You mus be joking. What else? Maybe a "push here to instakill this mofo" button?
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#209 - 2012-04-19 09:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Debir Achen wrote:
One concern: what mechanism is used for ordering the EW icons? I notice that the icons in one picture show Nos, RSD, Web and the other RSD, Nos, Web, ... . IMO, it is useful if they have a consistent order.
They are now ordered as they come in.... the new one is always added to the right and everythings moves because the bar is centered.

I think we just need to see how this plays out on TQ... if it turns out that mot people want to have them in fixed place we might change that behavior later on.

And you guys do have some good ideas regarding the ctlr+clicks but just so you knows, that is not going to be implemented before it hits TQ.
I have to admit that I am really tempted to go to work now (first day of summer so we have the day off, yay IcelandSmile) and implement some ctrl magic but it really has to be thought all the way through and designed properly (ctrl+click works when there is one targeting you but not not many could be confusing, ctrl+click to target all might not fly with the server programmers, ctrl+click in the menu to target would mean we would have to change the basic menus, target the first one to attack you, target the last one to attack you, target the one first on the list, target the one with the most/least modules, etc.).

That being said, we do have some designs for it which I think cover targeting back, but I'm not sure how that was supposed to work because we were only aiming to get you the icons above the HUD right now (even the right click menu is a plus P to allow you to interact with the icons... it might even be removed when the bar is iterated on and you get some other way of interacting with the icons)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#210 - 2012-04-19 09:54:06 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:

2. Circle timers are mandatory! I don't think this needs explanation.


WHAT?? You mus be joking. What else? Maybe a "push here to instakill this mofo" button?


You can already see the duration of an effect on your ship. Now we have an ugly decreaseing bar. Just make this better usable by displaying it on the new icons.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#211 - 2012-04-19 09:57:01 UTC
And good point about making it look more "dangerous" rather than like some extra modules you sudddenly have :P

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Evet Morrel
Doomheim
#212 - 2012-04-19 10:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Evet Morrel
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
DeBingJos wrote:

2. Circle timers are mandatory! I don't think this needs explanation.


WHAT?? You mus be joking. What else? Maybe a "push here to instakill this mofo" button?



While refining the interface will make flying your boat easier, there's no need to make using the interface any more difficult than it needs to be, bear in mind that it's a rising tide and can only make the game that much more challenging. That said, screen real estate is at a premium and circle timers shouldn't need an explanation.


Jas Dor wrote:
Great, now how about letting me broadcast the people I have jammed to the other guys in fleet so that we don't all Jam the same person?


Apologies to all, but this is off topic but Jas it's a truly inspired idea imo, broadcasts that accompany a successfully applied point for example would be cool when spreading points, or when roaming in recons etc.
Ayame Tao
#213 - 2012-04-19 10:07:53 UTC
Time and resources dependent, I'd very much like for this to be as customisable as the rest of the Overview - which considering how much info and functionality it has to provide is an astounding piece of kit anyway.

What I'd most like to see is that the display area for these icons is movebale and scaleable, much like the icon/buttons do in the target focus window (the one with Approach, Orbit, Warp, LookAt and all those buttons in) They have large buttons and smaller ones according to how big you've dragged your window.

This provides a benefit to overview fiddlers like me and to people playing on wacky resolutions or on low end systems.

Anyway, that can wait. Enjoy the time off! :)
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#214 - 2012-04-19 10:13:59 UTC
Sir Livingston wrote:
For those of us who align our HUD to the top, I hope there will be more options on placement of the effects bar.
The icons will be below the HUD if the HUD is top-aligned; see also previous reply https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1153740#post1153740

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#215 - 2012-04-19 10:15:52 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
Just to address some of the comments:

- we wanted to put counter on the icons, but knew when we started the implementation that we would not have time for more than the basics... get this ewar info to you, and allow for some interaction with the attackers through the icons

- we cannot simply "ctrl"+click on the icons to target back because the icons do not represent one pilot... they represent that this effect is being applied to you and there can be 10 players that are behind that icon.

but please keep the ideas coming. We do have designs for feature, but I think it's great to get this out now, as it is, to get feedback from you guys on where you would like to take it Smile

Would you mind answering my question whether the original icons in the overview will get removed or will stay too with this change?
From the devblog: "If you happen to like the 16x16 ewar icons in the overview then don't worry; they are not going anywhere :)"

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#216 - 2012-04-19 10:19:48 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
I have to admit that I am really tempted to go to work now (first day of summer so we have the day off, yay IcelandSmile)
I love your enthusiasm, but could you please relax and go snowboard or something? Big smile

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#217 - 2012-04-19 10:24:01 UTC
This is doubtless a great UI and usability improvement.


But - as some have mentioned - it impacts E-WAR balance.
What comes to my mind:

-"softer" E-War effects like Target Painting and Tracking Disruption will less likely go unnoticed
-feints where e.g. a hero-tanked Falcon without ECM is used maybe in conjunction with ECM on other ships won't work anymore
-E-War ships will draw much more attention and aggression

In short: those effects will be countered easier. => E-War nerf.

What about the other end?
Imagine there are like 10 Scramblers/Disruptors, 5 Neuters, 4 Tracking Disruptors, 3 Remote Sensor Dampeners in your gang - how can you ever hope to EFFECTIVELY use them on any enemy?
It is easy to announce focus fire (though many fleets even don't get this done), but the coordination of different E-War types is way more difficult.
Putting a 4th Tracking Disruption effect on a ship does nothing!

What would be nice is some information about the targets as well.
Like mini status bars for locked targets. Or at least an information which of my gang mates is scrambling which enemy ship!
Prodomicer
Doomheim
#218 - 2012-04-19 10:27:13 UTC
You can keep that titian or the titian snipping noob ship, Ill take a few of these new shuttles.
t3 shuttle
Viscount Hood
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#219 - 2012-04-19 10:28:15 UTC
How about adding

CTRL - click onto the Ewar icon and you lock the ship doing the nastyness to you, as an alternative to going through the right click menu?
Jita Anomaly
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#220 - 2012-04-19 10:34:26 UTC
Need same for Remote Shield Transporters and Remote armor repairers!