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RMT things in perspective, what do you guys think?

Author
Mark Androcius
#1 - 2012-04-18 18:22:53 UTC
Ok, here goes, i am ANTI RMT.

That said though, buying PLEX from CCP, is also RMT in a way, actually, not in a way, it just is, period, it's just a legal way.

Now, i personally think that CCP should do everything it can do, to ban and or otherwise punish ISK traders and buyers.

However, even though i don't do it myself, i think that trading PLEX is not that big a "crime".

First off, it will be PLEX, so it will at one point have been bought from CCP, so CCP does not financially suffer from it ( every PLEX you buy, has at some point come from CCP ).


The means of obtaining the PLEX in game however, is a totally different matter.

If it was obtained through the eve market, by using isk, made from botting....... yes, CCP, punish that if you feel you have to, just not the buyer, cause he can not know this.

If it was obtained through the eve market, by using isk the seller made legally, i don't see why that should be considered illegal, i just don't, simply because once again, nobody suffers from it and 2 people only get better from it.

I will probably get bashed and trolled for posting this, but please, take the time to actually think about it.
I mean, 21 euro's for 3 PLEX is a lot better then 20 euro's for 1 PLEX, certainly when it doesn't hurt CCP.

If anybody feels the need to wise me up, by telling me there IS a reason CCP gets hurt by this, then please do so in a normal manner, cause i just can't think of one.
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-18 18:27:31 UTC
Meow?
Mark Androcius
#3 - 2012-04-18 18:30:12 UTC
Kattshiro wrote:
Meow?


Woof
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#4 - 2012-04-18 18:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
I honestly don't understand your post.

You can't get a PLEX from anywhere else, than the EVE market. Only thing you can do is buy a GTC, or a PLEX directly from CCP.

That doesn't involve ISK tho, but real money.

And then the part about 3 PLEX for 21 euro, instead of 1 for 20 euro?


Who's trading PLEX for RL money, other than CCP? And who is selling something that CCP will charge you 17 x 3 euros for, for 21 euros?

Question

*EDIT*

The only way for someone to sell you 3 PLEX for 21 euro, is if they bought the PLEX in-game with ISK.

Is what you mean that some people are trading their in-game ISK, to RL money, by selling PLEX they bough in-game with ISK?

If so, and even if none of that ISK was made violating the rules. CCP can not allow people to "earn money" by playing EVE – since they would get hunted down by the IRS of different countries if those people did not pay taxes of their EVE income.
Mark Androcius
#5 - 2012-04-18 18:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Androcius
Pohbis wrote:
I honestly don't understand your post.

You can't get a PLEX from anywhere else, than the EVE market. Only thing you can do is buy a GTC, or a PLEX directly from CCP.

That doesn't involve ISK tho, but real money.

And then the part about 3 PLEX for 21 euro, instead of 1 for 20 euro?


Who's trading PLEX for RL money, other than CCP? And who is selling something that CCP will charge you 17 x 3 euros for, for 21 euros?

Question


Numbers are changing on a daily basis though, current price is 9.99 for 1 PLEX
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#6 - 2012-04-18 18:34:36 UTC
Chirp

...

Azitek
Serenity Labs
#7 - 2012-04-18 18:35:28 UTC
I assume you're talking about player A giving player B a PLEX, B giving A real currency.

If CCP were to allow this, how would they police it? Wouldn't this cost them more money in terms of man-hours they could have spent on something else? If there was a way to make real money from a game, wouldn't this encourage boting/EULA violations?

Also, maybe linking sites that obviously break the EULA isn't the best idea...
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#8 - 2012-04-18 18:35:55 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:


Numbers are changing on a daily basis though, current price is 9.99 for 1 PLEX


I'd edit out that link right now, you can't share that here.

But yes, sorry. I made an edit once your point finally sunk in.


*EDIT*

The only way for someone to sell you 3 PLEX for 21 euro, is if they bought the PLEX in-game with ISK.

Is what you mean that some people are trading their in-game ISK, to RL money, by selling PLEX they bough in-game with ISK?

If so, and even if none of that ISK was made violating the rules. CCP can not allow people to "earn money" by playing EVE – since they would get hunted down by the IRS of different countries if those people did not pay taxes of their EVE income.
Mark Androcius
#9 - 2012-04-18 18:39:16 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
The only way for someone to sell you 3 PLEX for 21 euro, is if they bought the PLEX in-game with ISK.

Is what you mean that some people are trading their in-game ISK, to RL money, by selling PLEX they bough in-game with ISK?

If so, and even if none of that ISK was made violating the rules. CCP can not allow people to "earn money" by playing EVE – since they would get hunted down by the IRS of different countries if those people did not pay taxes of their EVE income.


Quite a good point there, this is what i overlooked, hmmmmm, thanks for honoring my request to wise me up then :)
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-18 18:45:19 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
Numbers are changing on a daily basis though, current price is 9.99 for 1 PLEX

If your buying plex from Out of Game - you are in fact RMT'ing.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2012-04-18 18:48:09 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
Ok, here goes, i am ANTI RMT.

That said though, buying PLEX from CCP, is also RMT in a way, actually, not in a way, it just is, period, it's just a legal way.

Now, i personally think that CCP should do everything it can do, to ban and or otherwise punish ISK traders and buyers.

However, even though i don't do it myself, i think that trading PLEX is not that big a "crime".

First off, it will be PLEX, so it will at one point have been bought from CCP, so CCP does not financially suffer from it ( every PLEX you buy, has at some point come from CCP ).


The means of obtaining the PLEX in game however, is a totally different matter.

If it was obtained through the eve market, by using isk, made from botting....... yes, CCP, punish that if you feel you have to, just not the buyer, cause he can not know this.

If it was obtained through the eve market, by using isk the seller made legally, i don't see why that should be considered illegal, i just don't, simply because once again, nobody suffers from it and 2 people only get better from it.

I will probably get bashed and trolled for posting this, but please, take the time to actually think about it.
I mean, 21 euro's for 3 PLEX is a lot better then 20 euro's for 1 PLEX, certainly when it doesn't hurt CCP.

If anybody feels the need to wise me up, by telling me there IS a reason CCP gets hurt by this, then please do so in a normal manner, cause i just can't think of one.


You are not the first to ask the question. Consider this: http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1542767

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#12 - 2012-04-18 18:53:16 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:
Quite a good point there, this is what i overlooked, hmmmmm, thanks for honoring my request to wise me up then :)
That's only the legal mumbo jumbo tho.

Fact is, as soon as CCP allowed people to trade not only RL money for ISK like they do now with PLEX, but allowed people to go the other way and get RL money for ISK – the amount of cheating, botting, hacking, social engineering and downright evil scamming would go through the roof, as people started hording ISK to turn into RL cash.

You only have to look at the crap it is causing when a select few, who have access to vast amounts of ISK, do it ( against the EULA ).

Ever looked into the emo drama that is happening on leadership level in alliances who get billions and billions of ISK each month from holding tech moons?

Yeah. Now imagine everyone being able to legally trade ISK for cash to buy a business in RL, or pay their mothers bungalow Lol

People are bad enough in this game, without any RL incentives. Nobody really wants to throw RL money into the equation as well.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-04-18 18:59:49 UTC
This thread is going places.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Mark Androcius
#14 - 2012-04-18 19:00:13 UTC
Well, i've set my sights on becoming a real life millionaire and then buying for a million euro's worth in PLEX ( from CCP of course ) and then crash the market down, till it's worth just 2 isk a piece.
Cause i think that's the only way to really stop RMT with PLEX.
Mark Androcius
#15 - 2012-04-18 19:00:44 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
This thread is going places.


As far as i know, it's still on the same server........
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-18 19:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Plex is not RMT. Christ.

Plex is a timecode tradeable in game. You don't have to trade it for ISK. You could trade it for 1 trillion veldspar.

You could trade it for 1 Golden Omber.

Please stop making threads. And you're obviously not from Rotterdam!

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Mark Androcius
#17 - 2012-04-18 19:10:20 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Plex is not RMT. Christ.

Plex is just an timecode tradeable in game. You don't have to trade it for ISK. You could trade it for 1 trillion veldspar.

You could trade it for 1 Golden Omber.

Please stop making threads. And you're obviously not from Rotterdam!


Yeah, god, think about the horror, Rotterdam, my god, no, i was born in 020.

And you OBVIOUSLY didn't read the whole thread, i was talking about PLEX being sold by players to players for real life money
Spy 21
Infidelia Black
#18 - 2012-04-18 19:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Spy 21
So what you are suggesting is to allow third party - out of game - trading of PLEX for real money.

I disagree with this because it sounds no different from what is happening today... only today it's ISK and on websites and totally illegal. If CCP catches someone doing this they are taking a small bite out of the BOT community which is all right and holy and what they need to be doing always.

Besides, CCP is not going to ever allow the RMT market to legally undercut thier PLEX prices... financially dumb thing to do.

Having said that, I do think there should be a LEGAL way to remove ISK from the game and turn it back into money. Only one which is 100% controlled by CCP ie CCP offering the option to sell PLEX back to them for a similar price they sell them at. If they did that they would realize the following potential benefits:

1. Take a huge share of the RMT trading away from the BOT inspired, owned and supported RMT sites. In fact they may end up shutting some of them down. Anyone who has a legitimate over supply of ISK that they would like to remove from the game now would have a legal option to do it.
2. Be able to create a database of all the players who are removing ISK from the game and turning it into real money. Not suggesting they investigate every single seller but they would have the option to investigate the ones selling large amounts and a place to cross reference player submitted bot accusations made in game.
3. Finally give players a way to equate PLEX to real life money legally.
4. Add another ISK sink (which many believe can help ease inflationary pressures in game.

And finally,
I've got to do something to retire on... my IRA got slammed recently and I don't want to eat cat food... might be able to actually make enough ISK to sell one plex a week which would at least buy me some food when I'm old and can't do anything else :)

S

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#19 - 2012-04-18 19:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
OP: Ignoring everything since you start off with a false premise.

PLEX in no way is RMT. An MT, sure I can see the arguments. But in no way are you buying in game ISK with RL money. You are buying an item. That's it. What you choose to do with that item doesn't matter, it is a single purchase that does not involve in game money.
Dr Silkworth
#20 - 2012-04-18 19:37:56 UTC
people that buy or sell plex shourd be set red to each other.
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