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Anticloak
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Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-04-17 06:55:50 UTC
Enkryption wrote:

The problem isn't the solo cloaker. It's the fact that he can be on top of you with a cyno/covert cyno lit with ships jumping in in less seconds then you have fingers on one hand, and bombers insta lock after uncloaking. You can't lock and kill a bomber before you are tackled by his friends jumping in, not in anything you're tanking anoms in.


I'll give you a hint-- there's a little button (toward the top right of your screen, by default) called "align to." If you select a thing in your overview, then click this button, your ship will fly in that thing's direction! Then, if something decloaks next to you, you can simply press warp and instantly warp off the field! You should try it some time, or are you too lazy to pay attention to your overview while ratting with hostiles in local? I understand that your porn collection and naruto episodes are really compelling, but you could save them for when you're ratting in a clear system.

Enkryption wrote:

To big alliance like GoonSwarm it's not a problem, they can just move to the next system, but for small budding alliance with only a system or two, it's devastating.


If your alliance rents space, you could have your landlords deal with the problem! If your alliance doesn't rent, and really is so small that they can only control two systems, you probably have bigger problems than AFK cloakers coming your way...

Enkryption wrote:

Try not to listen too much to most goons, most are born trolls, coming from SA and all, as well as not really being effected having 116 of their own systems to rat in. It's not hard for them to avoid afk-cloakers, hence why this tool is so up in arms defending it, he doesn't see it as a problem because for him, it's not one.


Yeah, we know, don't feed the animals etc.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#62 - 2012-04-18 15:33:15 UTC
Meolyne - Your initial observations are pretty much spot on. This pattern has repeated itself in every cloaking thread for as long as I can remember. The only differences are that first, someone usually comes in with an idea, posts it in a wall of text, then vanishes. That, or they give up after one or two GTFO flames. Second is that until yesterday, work was bog slow and I had time to respond to posts pretty much in realtime. The last two days have been quite busy with new customers to get installed, so I haven't had time to catch up and reply until after dinner. Anyways.... I hardly think that just because Goons are living in Reyjkavijk that the battle is lost. You've been around long enough to know that before the Goons, it was Sir Molle and BOB that had the corner office at CCP headquarters. Karttoon is gone, Mittani seems to be writing his own swan song, and eventually even the Russians might just get fed up with Goon culture and everyone on TQ will war-dec them in a world-wide crusade that would make the GNW look like peanuts by comparison. Or not. :) (Incidentally, your comment about sending bouys, helos, and other subs to clear a path is a tactic NATO has considered as an alternative to the WW2 convoy system)

Ganth - Jeez... after all this talk about how all these other cloaky ships are so heinously gimped up, you kinda create the impression that a bomber was the only ship you'd even consider hunting with. Not to mention the fact that I said straight out that I've never been the hunter, and that I'm smart enough to not be the prey. So given that you quite clearly don't fly bombers, maybe you'd share a little so I can get a better idea how this actually goes down? I've tried to make clear (but have obviously failed) that I'm trying to arrive at a result that does not tip the scales too far in favor of the bears. Enkryption says there's something about anti-cloak being a done deal buried in CSM minutes somewhere. I don't remember it myself, but let's assume for the moment that it's real, and CCP is about to do Something Big(tm). I'd rather it not go too far, because some day I may also want to try my hand at being the uber ebil cloaky monster. As for that Vexor, it was something I just slapped together in about five minutes with the primary goal being to survive at least one bomb plus nine torpedos. You're quite right that 260dps is hardly a sterling fit, but whatever. I'm all for getting a group together to go hunting, but being blueballed by a cloaker is even worse (to me) than being blueballed by a bunch of hulk pilots manning pos guns, hoping for the other guy to make a mistake.

Enkryption - Yep, though Goons weren't always this big. I remember when they used to litter the gates with jetcans that said "Join us, we kill battleships with frigates!!" Ganth doesn't really seem to be a stereotypical troll goon, and he's dropping little useful nuggest here and there for any bear that has been reading. I just wish he'd get out of "Leave my damned cloak alone" mode and address the possibility (guaranteed eventuality?) of a change to cloaking mechanics.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#63 - 2012-04-18 17:20:49 UTC
I myself find myself just wanting to see cloaked vessels shifted from it's current category: Great for meta-gaming

I would like to see it moved to a new category, chasing and hunting / hunted, edge of your seat, align to target warp in, fire, warp out, and keep moving so the hunters can't lock you down....

TL:DR Make cloaking ships FUN

( noone would worry about AFK cloakers, as noone would notice them)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#64 - 2012-04-18 21:07:06 UTC
Atum wrote:
Mag's wrote:
What mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, whilst they are AFK?

Get back to Rancer, there's a noob in a badger about to sneak through! Pirate

In all seriousness, though, the mechanic is "Cloakers can take advantage of the almost universal fact that bears are uninformed and terrified of their own shadow, to say nothing of someone who isn't dark blue." The problem (in my view) is the asymmetry of this kind of warfare, and my fear is that when all those bears come screaming (instead of just the handful who weren't paying attention and got ganked), that CCP will create some anti-cloak mechanism that's way too favorable to them. Ganth is right that being a cloaky hunter is already far from easy, and while EFT is hardly the final word on attack survivability (much can be said about the element of surprise and pilot skill/experience), it just reinforces the point that these ships aren't quite the paper-thin deathtraps they're made out to be, AND that a solo attacker can't knock out even a moderately hardened target (hint for any bears reading this... DAMAGE CONTROL!!!!). I'd *like* to have some sort of fully-fleshed out idea ready to go by the time the drone/meta nerf hits that creates a way for people to hunt down a cloaker without punishing folks for just being away for a short while. The only alternative is to start flagging the 23/7 AFK cloakers as botters (which is entirely possible... the bot just sits there in local and provides a running stream of who jumps/logs in and out and when), but I think everybody here would agree that not only is that not what the bot reporting tool is for, but in the long run is counter-productive as it wastes CCP's time and effort chasing down what will invariably be a number of false positives.
Can you answer the question then please?
For what little time i spent on your wall of text reply, I couldn't see one.

What mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, whilst they are AFK?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#65 - 2012-04-18 23:45:02 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Atum wrote:
Mag's wrote:
What mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, whilst they are AFK?
In all seriousness, though, the mechanic is "Cloakers can take advantage of the almost universal fact that bears are uninformed and terrified of their own shadow, to say nothing of someone who isn't dark blue."
Can you answer the question then please?
For what little time i spent on your wall of text reply, I couldn't see one.

What mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, whilst they are AFK?

The "official" name of this mechanic, such as it is, is "meta-gaming." Basically fsckin' with your opponent's head rather than just shoving railguns in their face and pulling the trigger. Personally, I much prefer your method.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#66 - 2012-04-19 00:17:50 UTC
Atum wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Atum wrote:
Mag's wrote:
What mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, whilst they are AFK?
In all seriousness, though, the mechanic is "Cloakers can take advantage of the almost universal fact that bears are uninformed and terrified of their own shadow, to say nothing of someone who isn't dark blue."
Can you answer the question then please?
For what little time i spent on your wall of text reply, I couldn't see one.

What mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, whilst they are AFK?

The "official" name of this mechanic, such as it is, is "meta-gaming." Basically fsckin' with your opponent's head rather than just shoving railguns in their face and pulling the trigger. Personally, I much prefer your method.
OK let me make the question easier for you to understand.

What game mechanic are they using, to interact with you and attempt to create fear, whilst they are AFK.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#67 - 2012-04-19 00:27:25 UTC
It's too easy defending a system as it is. So no please!

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
Strelsky
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-04-19 01:05:20 UTC
Yes these threads were beaten to hell and back. But the fact that they still keep on popping just shows that something ain't right

Making local work in 0.0 as it does in WH space is possible - IF the directional scanner gets a buff in form of automatic pulses like every ten seconds. I'm not a bot that would click the "Scan" button for hours and not go mad
Then the cloaked ships would need to be visible on directional scan (although perhaps at half the range of Dscan's max scan range) as well as probable down (although requiring top notch skills to do that of course)

What we'd be looking at is a scan that doesn't feel medieval, local gone as an intel tool and cloaking gone as a "I press this button somewhere in space and no matter what you do, you can't touch me"

Cloaking itself providing 100% cover at any time no matter how long you are sitting there afk is just wrong. If EVE is all about risks and rewards and what have you, call me stupid but I do not see the risk in sitting cloaked on a safespot in a system full of reds knowing they can't do jack **** to touch me. Both defensive and offensive uses of the cloak and the protection it provides is outta the line and absolutely stupid.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-04-19 01:35:21 UTC
Strelsky wrote:
Yes these threads were beaten to hell and back. But the fact that they still keep on popping just shows that something ain't right

Making local work in 0.0 as it does in WH space is possible - IF the directional scanner gets a buff in form of automatic pulses like every ten seconds. I'm not a bot that would click the "Scan" button for hours and not go mad
Then the cloaked ships would need to be visible on directional scan (although perhaps at half the range of Dscan's max scan range) as well as probable down (although requiring top notch skills to do that of course)

What we'd be looking at is a scan that doesn't feel medieval, local gone as an intel tool and cloaking gone as a "I press this button somewhere in space and no matter what you do, you can't touch me"

Cloaking itself providing 100% cover at any time no matter how long you are sitting there afk is just wrong. If EVE is all about risks and rewards and what have you, call me stupid but I do not see the risk in sitting cloaked on a safespot in a system full of reds knowing they can't do jack **** to touch me. Both defensive and offensive uses of the cloak and the protection it provides is outta the line and absolutely stupid.


So what I'm getting from this is, "take local away (which I am too lazy to watch anyway) and put in an auto-scanning system (because I'm too lazy to press the d-scan button occasionally when I'm ratting with hostiles in local because I'm too lazy to move somewhere else or organize a defense group)."

You also don't seem to understand that a dude cloaked in a safespot can't really do much of anything other than spam local with insults. An AFK person cloaked in a safespot literally can't do anything. No risk and-- unless you count tears like this on EVEO and in local-- no reward.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-04-19 01:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
You guys just need to keep in mind that the defender has literally EVERY advantage over an attacker bar one: the attacker's ability to cloak.

The defender gets:

  • Stations (where they can dock up and achieve 100% guaranteed safety, while AFK if they so desire)
  • POSes (where they can hide in space inside invulnerable bubbles surrounded by automated defenses that are MORE than sufficient for repelling lone/small gangs of attackers)
  • People (defenders typically outnumber attackers by a large margin)
  • Jump bridges (not as stupidly safe as they used to be, but still allow locals to move around regions way faster than hostiles)
  • Cyno beacons
  • Information (your space is full of blues that can give you information about what's going on where, whereas a lone attacker or small invading gang have very limited information about the movements of locals)
  • Home-field advantage (the defender, being able to dock / refit / POS up anywhere in their space, is free to use whatever kinds of ships or gangs they feel like to defend their space, while attackers must select ships that are jacks of all trades, since they only have one ship to fly)

In return for going up against all these stacked odds, the attacker gets:

  • A Cloak (the ability to run off and hide if they can get off the field)


This game is not a game which is balanced in the favor of an attacker. Defenders have innumerable means of avoiding confrontations at their disposal. When people die, it's due to their complacency or ignorance. You're advocating rebalancing the game so that even the complacent and ignorant don't have to face any risks while inhabiting their space. Don't expect me to support your position.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#71 - 2012-04-19 03:22:58 UTC
Mag's - Forget the whole AFK thing. Bears are scared whether the cloaker is AFK or not. Their mere existance makes them pee their pants.

Strelsky - I really don't like the potential side-effects of making DScan automatic. Yes, spamming it is one of the most gawd-awful parts of living in W-space, but I fear for the yarrsters.

Ganth - You're right... the defender almost always has the advantage. But cloaking is entirely one-sided, and apparently (if the CSM minute comment is true) something is going to be done about it, whether you (and anyone else) like it or not. Best have full and reasoned threads for CCP to read rather than the usual flamage.
Fehk Shus
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-04-19 03:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Fehk Shus
First of all:
Ganthrithor wrote:
How is you hiding in a POS so radically different from me hiding in a safespot with a cloak? Neither of us can kill each other, and we can both see that the other is in local. You can go AFK in your POS to make my balls bluer, I can AFK in my safe to keep your wallet smaller...

^this

Also, here are plenty of options to either get rid of cloaky fags like myself and/or blueball them. Most of them were listed already, but I will repeat them and list a few myself: you can smartbomb, you can bait, you can hotdrop, you can blob, you can return the favor and fly a CovOps/BlackOps/Recon yourself, you can put bubbles up with cans around them to decloak, etc. In other words, it's not impossible to counter CovOps!

And to go even further, if you're not willing to invest in protecting yourself with these means or make friends who can help do this for you, then you do not deserve to reap the rewards in the systems where a cloaky can disrupt your operations. If you don't want cloakyfaggotry to disrupt your operations, you have the following options:

a) Find an alliance/corp that knows how to deal with these types of situations
b) Try to solve the problem yourself
c) Find another means of making ISK in 0.0 / lowsec (as those are the areas where cloaky faggotry can hurt the most)
d) Go back to empire, away from all those horrible politics and cloakies.

If all else fails, you should quit EVE. And I mean it.

EVE = RISK VS REWARD and you should accept it.

Thirdly, I want to address the fact that CovOps tactics like cloakycamping, covert jumps and bombing runs are a great way of countering massive powerhouses and coalitions. Guerrilla warfare need not be explained? When your gang is efficient in scouting, picking targets, killing and cloaking up again (which takes practice and intelligence), numbers don't matter.

If you, OP, would get this idea pushed through, you would take away that advantage of a small gang over a larger gang. Take the following example:

no anticloak
- cloaky gang camps a gate next to 0.0 coalition major hub
- 200 mael/drake/rifter gang jumps in gatecamp
- cloaky gang picks a few targets and kills them
- cloaky gang cloaks up again

or

anticloak
- cloaky gang camps a gate next to 0.0 coalition major hub
- 200 mael/drake/rifter gang jumps in gatecamp
- big coalition pushes button on POS
- cloaky gang dies in any situation, because uncloaked everyone sees where they warp or are being sniped by fancy new instalocking Tier3 BC after being decloaked without warning.

Suppose your anticloak system would give a 60s warning before decloak, then It would be more agreeable, as it would affect the group of players you so despise (perma AFK safed cloakies) because a good cloaky gang would then take measures to prevent from being killed. BUT as I said, this will eliminate the guerrilla warfare aspect again, as it would give any large fleet free passage without having to worry about cloakies catching their stragglers, because then they would be able to send a POS guy as a scout "pushing the sonar buttons" before they jump in.

Then, you would think, cloaking fuel might be a good option!

Again, no! As cloaky fags would just bring transports (yes, covert ops cloak, gee) with fuel in them, which would be enough for at least a couple of days. If you take into account that a frig/cruiser cargohold is anywhere in between 100 and 350 m³ and take away the amount you need for ammo and such, let's say you have about 20-75m³ left for fuel. If that fuel would take 0.1m³ / unit, there would be 200-750 units available per ship. Now let's say 1 unit would be consumed each minute for bombers, 2units for recons/transports (and 3units for blackops). That gives all cloakies (including travel times!) 3h-7h of cloaked time. You'd say that's definetly enough time, right? Well, thats without the transport at least. A viator, for example, would be able to give a gang of 4 bombers, 3 recons and a black ops a total of 4,6 days or 111h of camping fun! That doesn't exactly change much to your situation now, does it?

I say stop this nonsense, because any anti-cloak mechanism will just ruining the 0.0/lowsec/wh experience in the long run.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-04-19 06:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Atum wrote:

Ganth - You're right... the defender almost always has the advantage. But cloaking is entirely one-sided, and apparently (if the CSM minute comment is true) something is going to be done about it, whether you (and anyone else) like it or not. Best have full and reasoned threads for CCP to read rather than the usual flamage.


Of course I'm right, I do this kind of thing for a space-living and have been for the last 4 years.

I hope you're not referring to me when you say we need reasoned arguments rather than flameage. I think I've done a pretty good job of explaining some of the many reasons this change would be a bad idea. And you keep agreeing with me. I'm not even sure why we're arguing anymore.

Regarding the CSM minutes thing, not everything that makes a one-line, vague appearance in the minutes is acted upon. I seriously doubt CCP are going to implement any kind of "anticloak" system, for balance reasons I think I've made pretty clear.

I'll try a different approach here: say CCP literally took your idea (the POS mod thing that gives a brief warning, then decloaks everything shortly thereafter) and implemented it tomorrow. How would any smaller attacking force expect to do any remotely serious damage to a target group?

Here's how I think things would play out. Small gangs could roam through peoples' space, just as they can currently, with much the same results (they kill maybe one or two things, get reported, and all the carebears and their juicy PvE ships scurry away like cockroaches the moment their scout enters local). Roaming gangs will still run up against the inevitable "defense gang of drakes and scimitars that's 4-5x larger than your roaming gang" and either pick off some tackle or just run away. Carebears will instantly return to their PvE.

It would still be possible for more persistent attackers to harass locals without cloaks, but it will be exponentially more difficult to get kills, since the enemy will always know when you're active (as it would be "whenever you're online / in local"). At the same time, the same carebears who argued for this mechanics change will find that they're still unable to kill harassers (since it's next to impossible to get caught while rolling safes, with or without a cloak. I used to do this all the time years ago in Stain roaming around in a Rupture-- kill ratters, get defense gang chasing you, either jump to a system where you're un-aggressed, safe, and log, or roll safes for 20 minutes to wait out your timer, then log). In fact, the bears may even find that it's MORE difficult to fight hostiles, since if nothing else they'll go back to fitting normal mods in their utility highs. This means all their ships will have significantly better scan res, as well as packing more DPS (in the case of ships that need to drop a weapon to fit a cloak) or nasty utility highs like neuts.

Implementation of an anticloaking mechanic would be extremely bad for the game. It would skew the odds entirely in the defenders' favor (whereas currently the odds are merely skewed *almost entirely* in their favor) and would make it next to impossible to disrupt economic activity in any meaningful way. I suppose you'd consider this a positive, since it's generally the case that the people who make these threads *are* carebears who post rationalizations for anti-cloaking mechanics that are little more than thinly-veiled cries for for risk-free PvE, but trust me, game mechanics are stacked firmly in the favor of PvEers already.
Fehk Shus
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-04-19 06:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Fehk Shus
^ basically what I said, but more beautifully written :p

EDIT: on the automatic d-scan stuff: Please don't take away all forms of human error, means less kills! Let everyone spam d-scan like we are used to. There is also nothing as exciting as spamming d-scan in a very hostile system while bashine a maelstrom with some bombers.
Strelsky
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-04-19 10:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Strelsky
Ganthrithor wrote:


So what I'm getting from this is, "take local away (which I am too lazy to watch anyway) and put in an auto-scanning system (because I'm too lazy to press the d-scan button occasionally when I'm ratting with hostiles in local because I'm too lazy to move somewhere else or organize a defense group)."

You also don't seem to understand that a dude cloaked in a safespot can't really do much of anything other than spam local with insults. An AFK person cloaked in a safespot literally can't do anything. No risk and-- unless you count tears like this on EVEO and in local-- no reward.


You actually couldn't be more be wrong on all those assumptions.

If there were any nerfs to be made to cloaking, the local would have to go also. It makes a lot more sense the way I described it. The dscan doesn't tell you whether the ship appearing in system is a passing by blue or not. That would give a lot more space to solo roamers and a chance to not be in intel channel the moment they get past the regional gate to empire.

I mean - that's why everybody gets so spacemad here - they wan't to carry on killing the easy ratting ships. Well who doesn't?

I don't even know how are you going to spin this and invoke the best of your goonie trolling skillz. But in a nutshell you get to have more kills by actual active gameplay instead of sitting in some system for couple days and then maybe killing 1 impatient carebear that decided to ignore you.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#76 - 2012-04-19 13:10:26 UTC
Enkryption wrote:
Anti-cloak is coming. Read CSM minutes. It was mentioned there.

yeah then STFU and wait.

Enkryption wrote:

The problem isn't the solo cloaker. It's the fact that he can be on top of you with a cyno/covert cyno lit with ships jumping in in less seconds then you have fingers on one hand

yep absolutely right, this is how this game is played.
Deal with it or get the f*ck out back to highsec.
You knew before how 0.0 works, there are cloakers, there are cynos and its good the way it is. No carebear havens or safety fortresses possible thanks to all that.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#77 - 2012-04-19 13:51:49 UTC
Ya know, now that I think about it, I bet there are some people who do play, and possibly even bought the game, just so they can meta-game.

I cannot say I am one of them.

I want to get into my bomber, jump into a system with targets, and not have them scatter like roaches when the lights go on.

I trained a freekin stealth bomber so they would not know I was coming. If I wanted them to be warned, I would fly a drake instead, or a hictor.

But there is local, mindlessly telling the entire system I am there, and that I am not blue.

Could I be hunted? Not effectively, but I welcome you to try. Heck, I am not AFK when I know I am vulnerable, so even if you could track cloaked ships, I would be moving too much for you to catch me.

Stop turning on the lights when we enter a system. We want to hunt you, we never cared if you could hunt us, so long as it made sense for fun gameplay.

Come out and plaaaayyyy....

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-04-19 14:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sphit Ker
No. Sorry. Altho the premise is not entirely without merit, this execution is wrong. The whole pulse thingy that disable all cloaks etc will hurt more allies than enemies. You know it will. Everybody will drop using these very soon after release. Just sit and watch..

However, since the AFK 100% safe cloaked all seeing eye is a problem, I vouch for a new class/ship role/whatever else that provide the tangible possibility of decloaking without de-naturing cloaks per se. Whatever it is, it register the cloaked dude on the overview with nothing but it's distance. No name, no speed, no corp tags, no brackets, no transversal. Nothing but distance.. We'll have to triangulate the position and push in for a decloak. Awesome gameplay addition.

AFK cloaking needs to maintain it's nature as it is because it has a reason to be. A nagging presence behind enemy line is crucial. Taking this away entirely will not end well. On the other hand, staying behind enemy line 100% safe 100% of the times is weak gameplay. This is a flaw. It should not be possible without proactive actions from the cloacker.

Again, the ~thing~ I vouch for is a whatever that once deployed/anchored/activated/whatever else provide people with the presence of a cloaked target on overview with it's distance ONLY and only if within the same grid as the source of the detection ~thing~.

As proposed, it ensure "AFK" all seeing eyes in local needs to expose themselves to some degrees of risk if they want more than limited d-scan readouts. Being on-grid exposes themselves to the risk of getting triangulated and killed. Risk vs reward, right?

This can be a new ship role bonus or a deployable item much like mobile bubbles or even a module some ships can have. I don't care what provides it, it needs to be implemented in some form or another.

It knows what you think.
Meolyne
Perkone
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-04-19 15:34:00 UTC
[half off-topic]
I don't really see the problem apart it looks like a vast minority of armed grunts live in eveO forums. Roll

You said EVE = RISK VS REWARD
sure with this catching phrase, CCP can count on you to open 200k new accounts per year (what CCP secretly wishes for christmas)

"Eve has no fun, is a solo OR multi-thousands raidstyle RVsB game, Market is ruled by the bots [RIP], mining is ruled by RMT [RIP], 0.0 was ruled by DRF Titan Online™ [double RIP] and is now by Goon Presidency [RIP], So LET MY CLOAK SAFELY ! "

Why do you absolutely want to be alone in 0.0 ? every single carebear or semi-carebear should leave null sectors to your 0-tolerance(™) Alliance?
You don't have to be in a 1000 members alliance to defend your own system (supposing your ally is not 75% alts like today)

for the Cloaky game mechanics it more like a Human vs Mouse game. i never saw a cat setting a bait, or jumping on chairs when afraid.
[/off topic]

Why not introduce Tom, the Cat then?
You want to disupt economic activity ? Allright your call, but should be a 100% job time.
CCP will make a 15mn safe log-off mechanic :
You're effectively playing ? OK, others know you are playing, and plays too (bait, leave system, stop activity, kisses in local... or doesn't fear you and know the risks (to be fired from alliance loosing this 15b vindicator again Oops)
OR You don't really play, you just have enough money to buy a extra account. Say hello to TomCat. if i find you sleeping under the sofa, then... you will be my dinner. If it's YOU, the BAIT, then, i guess 1000 fellas invade my house in less than 10secs once i found you Shocked (why Titan would be a bad cat : Release soon™ Pirate)

you don't break any EVE is "working as intended"(thus no need for patches ofc, you're a developper yourself, you're-omniscient).
You add fun in my opinion.
BTW introducing a 5mn "Anti-cloakable wave" will effectively harms bomber-fleets, don't think it's a good idea.
But covert-ops blockade runner indus is not meant to retrieve technetium from Vale to Jita, passing by Deklein or Syndicate.

You (not pro) seem to forget each time that should be installable in a ±L5 sov. and especially avoid saying that almost no- super alliance member seems to take care of you as long as you bring your tengu in the battle tonight and pay your bills.
You also think that every carebear only Mine and do PvE in 0.0. You're utterly wrong. We having more fun in 0.0 than High Sec, and make less profits, with a higher risk (i never made any isky roaming, but it was really enjoyable and teaching)
Lastly, gathering intel should be much harder than it is now. I never saw a unskilled cloaker (doesn't match) or anyone else said "Cloaky is imba Risk vs Profit" you can't put a price on intelligence reports, and maybe one >>30Mil bomber for economic disruption.

I hate posting long walls of text like this, sorry. Cloaking is working yes, but could be tweaked.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#80 - 2012-04-19 15:58:46 UTC
Meolyne wrote:
[half off-topic]
I don't really see the problem apart it looks like a vast minority of armed grunts live in eveO forums. Roll

You said EVE = RISK VS REWARD
sure with this catching phrase, CCP can count on you to open 200k new accounts per year (what CCP secretly wishes for christmas)

"Eve has no fun, is a solo OR multi-thousands raidstyle RVsB game, Market is ruled by the bots [RIP], mining is ruled by RMT [RIP], 0.0 was ruled by DRF Titan Online™ [double RIP] and is now by Goon Presidency [RIP], So LET MY CLOAK SAFELY ! "

Why do you absolutely want to be alone in 0.0 ? every single carebear or semi-carebear should leave null sectors to your 0-tolerance(™) Alliance?
You don't have to be in a 1000 members alliance to defend your own system (supposing your ally is not 75% alts like today)

for the Cloaky game mechanics it more like a Human vs Mouse game. i never saw a cat setting a bait, or jumping on chairs when afraid.
[/off topic]

Why not introduce Tom, the Cat then?
You want to disupt economic activity ? Allright your call, but should be a 100% job time.
CCP will make a 15mn safe log-off mechanic :
You're effectively playing ? OK, others know you are playing, and plays too (bait, leave system, stop activity, kisses in local... or doesn't fear you and know the risks (to be fired from alliance loosing this 15b vindicator again Oops)
OR You don't really play, you just have enough money to buy a extra account. Say hello to TomCat. if i find you sleeping under the sofa, then... you will be my dinner. If it's YOU, the BAIT, then, i guess 1000 fellas invade my house in less than 10secs once i found you Shocked (why Titan would be a bad cat : Release soon™ Pirate)

you don't break any EVE is "working as intended"(thus no need for patches ofc, you're a developper yourself, you're-omniscient).
You add fun in my opinion.
BTW introducing a 5mn "Anti-cloakable wave" will effectively harms bomber-fleets, don't think it's a good idea.
But covert-ops blockade runner indus is not meant to retrieve technetium from Vale to Jita, passing by Deklein or Syndicate.

You (not pro) seem to forget each time that should be installable in a ±L5 sov. and especially avoid saying that almost no- super alliance member seems to take care of you as long as you bring your tengu in the battle tonight and pay your bills.
You also think that every carebear only Mine and do PvE in 0.0. You're utterly wrong. We having more fun in 0.0 than High Sec, and make less profits, with a higher risk (i never made any isky roaming, but it was really enjoyable and teaching)
Lastly, gathering intel should be much harder than it is now. I never saw a unskilled cloaker (doesn't match) or anyone else said "Cloaky is imba Risk vs Profit" you can't put a price on intelligence reports, and maybe one >>30Mil bomber for economic disruption.

I hate posting long walls of text like this, sorry. Cloaking is working yes, but could be tweaked.


a wall of text and I still dont have a fuc*king clue what its about.