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Passports and underhanded dealings. Oh and much fighting!

Author
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#1 - 2012-04-17 19:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Loney
I always see lots of "remove Empire" or "nerf low sec" posts. EVE strives to be as real as possible, whens the last time you tried to hop a plane to Syria or Iraq? Not going to happen right? There are borders and officials that keep everyone "safe" by restricting movement both ways. Lets apply that to EVE in almost the exact same manner! This would help keep the carebears as "safe" as they choose to be ( see part 2 ) and also add some more manufacturing to low sec.

1) Passports: Treated as a removable augmentation that allows access to Gates in and into empire space.

A Passport system will fundamentally change the way everyone plays the game. To access any gate in or into empire space you will require a Passport with sufficient ratings to travel Empire space. The ratings would be based on two things, your CONCORD security status and your personal standing with the faction holding sovereignty in the system.

For example
if Sec-Stat < 0.0 - no 1.0 system access
if Sec-Stat < - 1.0 - no 9.0 system access
if Sec-Stat < - 2.0 - no 8.0 system access
if Sec-Stat < - 3.0 - no 7.0 system access

etc etc

If sec-Stat < - 5.0 - No empire access!!!

This way gankers and roaming Low-sec people cannot access higher level systems at all after messing up too many times. There is already a system to repair your Sec-Stat if if falls to low so I will not go into that topic.

The second rating would be with the Faction holding sovereignty, if they don't like you, they don't let you in based on the same number scheme as above. Making Corporation standing factor into this may or may not work but the idea can certainly be explored. This would mean that if you are heavy into factional warfare and have picked your side... Guess what, the people that you have been shooting at take offense and you will have to repair that standing before going into their space again. There may need to be a system to repair this standing but it can be offered in terms of missions and the like.

For all the low/null sec people reading this and deciding that this will do nothing but protect the carebears even more please pay attention to the rest of this proposal as it has explosions.

Like all Passports, yours can be forged. Treat it as an implant that can be researched, manufactured and built at any non-empire POS ( think boosters ) The better standing you want, the most time / cost involved in forging the documents. They would be illegal to have in your hold in Empire and would face the same restrictions that contraband does now. Also there would be a chance, based on the quality of the passport, that you will be caught and it would be removed and you will be treated as having -10.0 status / standing. Also traveling with out one would be the same and -10.0 as only really bad guys travel with no passport. A replacement original would be avaliable for free from any CONCORD customs office as well as at entrance gates to Empire space.

Now on to point number the second.

Apply the current sovereignty system to boarder systems (0.4). If a large Empire based Corporation wants to mine better minerals they can join the Empire faction of choice and attempt to take control of neighboring low-sec systems. Think of it as fighting for your country in contested areas that need attention. There will obviously be systems that CONCORD holds fast ( think the U.S. Boarder ) and areas that everyone can fight over. If the factional warfare people can claim control over a system for more than a month the security status goes up slightly ( 0.4 -> 0.45). If that control is maintained for enough time CONCORD stations guns at the gates and the passport system comes into effect. The No mans land systems will be static! the minerals / ores will be the same so Empire will never have full access to low-sec resources using this method. This means with forged papers you can come in, swap to your real credentials and wreak havoc on everyone and bring the system status down and drag the system back to low-sec with all the people in it. This means that he carebears of Empire will have to either stay home or can try and bring civilization and order to the low-sec areas with bigger guns.

That is all! Please discuss and put mind in motion before mouth in gear.

Michael Loney

P.S. Additional Points / Thought


- Passports will be destroyed if you are killed by CONCORD. So you get one gank per passport ( bring extras )

- Addition of new skills or modules to make boarder crossing easier ( bribery? ) or hiding contraband more effective ( Secret Compartments )

- All factional sovereignty structures would be avaliable via or discounted by LP stores.

- War-decs would NOT BE REQUIRED to fight in No mans land systems but a security hit still happens

- CONCORD will never take over a 0.4 system! I will leave it to CCP if they want the players to be capable of expanding Empire space.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-04-17 19:53:39 UTC
It sounds like you both want to make a hard limit forbidding people bad sec status from going into specific highsec systems (by making the passport) and make it easier for people with bad status (by letting them make fake passports).

I think that it greatly takes away from the sandbox to do anything like this. The current system, where faction police attack people with poor standings, works better than this.

And if you insist on RL analogies, the current system is more like RL. In RL, you're not physically prevented from entering a country without a passport, you'll just be arrested if you get caught (just like faction police attacking people in the current system).

Also, lore wise, I don't think the empires can actually control the gates and who they allow through (because gates are old tech that no one understands), they can only react after the person enters the system by shooting the person.

tl;dr: I believe the current system is better for Eve's sandbox and there is no gameplay, RP, or even RL basis for adding this.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-04-17 23:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
mxzf wrote:
It sounds like you both want to make a hard limit forbidding people bad sec status from going into specific highsec systems (by making the passport) and make it easier for people with bad status (by letting them make fake passports).

I think that it greatly takes away from the sandbox to do anything like this. The current system, where faction police attack people with poor standings, works better than this.

And if you insist on RL analogies, the current system is more like RL. In RL, you're not physically prevented from entering a country without a passport, you'll just be arrested if you get caught (just like faction police attacking people in the current system).

Also, lore wise, I don't think the empires can actually control the gates and who they allow through (because gates are old tech that no one understands), they can only react after the person enters the system by shooting the person.

tl;dr: I believe the current system is better for Eve's sandbox and there is no gameplay, RP, or even RL basis for adding this.



For those who are "TLDR"

No. (And I agree with the above quoted sentiment/statement of course)

Just No.

The whole idea of EVE Online is "sandbox"

Do as you please.

Right now you can show up in a -10.0 sec rated toon and freely fly around high sec without much trouble....in your pod.

But no one said you couldn't do that in a frigate...or any ship for that matter (within reason obviously).

This would put too much restriction...I appluad the idea of making a sec rating count for something (Which is why I'm being nice...yes don't die and have a heart attack!)...but this tilts the balance a little to far to the high sec peeps.

not supporting.

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Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#4 - 2012-04-18 01:26:35 UTC
So currently in game what's to stop a player with -10 Security rating from getting in a pod, traveling to a high sec system, buying a ship with a smart bomb and camping it outside a station? Yes CONCORD will show up and blow up the ship, but the same player can simply warp to the next station, wash - rinse - and repeat.

I love the sandbox idea, I really do but when the bully can come up and repeatedly knock down my sand castle it gets very discouraging very fast especially to new players. Why have CONCORD at all? They are always a response to known criminals causing problems but never impeding them from repeating those actions. To me this is nothing like real life! Imagine if the cops simply followed bad guys around and stopped them AFTER they robbed / killed someone? Its good that they are always caught but why not restrict them from causing problems in the first place?

My proposal was to simply enact some real consequence for negative actions in the game. The security status is already there, why not use it for something?

I would love to see no passport system and simply have the restrictions based on security status but that would be unbalanced in the game and needs a counter.

Go online and watch some youtube videos of people ganking new players in starter systems. Things like 'accidentally' taking loot then offering it back, and "oh, that CONCORD message is just a popup." They trick new players by acting nice then utterly destroy them. If you really like this game enough to play and defend its sandbox environment, would you recommend it to friends as it is now? or would you spend time teaching them how to play BEFORE letting them try it?

Michael
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-04-18 01:48:36 UTC
Michael Loney wrote:
So currently in game what's to stop a player with -10 Security rating from getting in a pod, traveling to a high sec system, buying a ship with a smart bomb and camping it outside a station? Yes CONCORD will show up and blow up the ship, but the same player can simply warp to the next station, wash - rinse - and repeat.

I love the sandbox idea, I really do but when the bully can come up and repeatedly knock down my sand castle it gets very discouraging very fast especially to new players. Why have CONCORD at all? They are always a response to known criminals causing problems but never impeding them from repeating those actions. To me this is nothing like real life! Imagine if the cops simply followed bad guys around and stopped them AFTER they robbed / killed someone? Its good that they are always caught but why not restrict them from causing problems in the first place?

My proposal was to simply enact some real consequence for negative actions in the game. The security status is already there, why not use it for something?

I would love to see no passport system and simply have the restrictions based on security status but that would be unbalanced in the game and needs a counter.

Go online and watch some youtube videos of people ganking new players in starter systems. Things like 'accidentally' taking loot then offering it back, and "oh, that CONCORD message is just a popup." They trick new players by acting nice then utterly destroy them. If you really like this game enough to play and defend its sandbox environment, would you recommend it to friends as it is now? or would you spend time teaching them how to play BEFORE letting them try it?

Michael


You just lost what little respect you got from me.

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Ayla Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-04-18 02:55:10 UTC
Michael Loney wrote:
So currently in game what's to stop a player with -10 Security rating from getting in a pod, traveling to a high sec system, buying a ship with a smart bomb and camping it outside a station? Yes CONCORD will show up and blow up the ship, but the same player can simply warp to the next station, wash - rinse - and repeat.

I love the sandbox idea, I really do but when the bully can come up and repeatedly knock down my sand castle it gets very discouraging very fast especially to new players. Why have CONCORD at all? They are always a response to known criminals causing problems but never impeding them from repeating those actions. To me this is nothing like real life! Imagine if the cops simply followed bad guys around and stopped them AFTER they robbed / killed someone? Its good that they are always caught but why not restrict them from causing problems in the first place?

My proposal was to simply enact some real consequence for negative actions in the game. The security status is already there, why not use it for something?

I would love to see no passport system and simply have the restrictions based on security status but that would be unbalanced in the game and needs a counter.

Go online and watch some youtube videos of people ganking new players in starter systems. Things like 'accidentally' taking loot then offering it back, and "oh, that CONCORD message is just a popup." They trick new players by acting nice then utterly destroy them. If you really like this game enough to play and defend its sandbox environment, would you recommend it to friends as it is now? or would you spend time teaching them how to play BEFORE letting them try it?

Michael


EVE IS HARD.

Also, dont sign your posts, tool.
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#7 - 2012-04-18 12:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Loney
I would like to hear some actual feedback if I could. Not just a re-quote of the entire comment above with a single line of nothing useful.

I see this as changing nothing for high-sec players and adding both income and risk to low-sec players that want to venture into high-sec.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-04-18 13:46:17 UTC
I gave you actual feedback, you simply ignored it.

The fact remains that there are actual consequences to loss of sec status/standing in the game right now. Your approach is at the same time too heavy-handed and too beneficial to the gankers (since they can make themselves safe in highsec by getting a forged passport). And there's no reason for it to be in game at all.

Your idea messes up the sandbox that we have right now.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-04-18 14:05:58 UTC
Michael Loney wrote:
I would like to hear some actual feedback if I could. Not just a re-quote of the entire comment above with a single line of nothing useful.

I see this as changing nothing for high-sec players and adding both income and risk to low-sec players that want to venture into high-sec.


You have no business making ideas for a game you do not understand.

Feedback is wasted on you.

I suggest you play for a couple of years before you propose changes that dramtically affect the game.

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