These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Anaconda and Python mine BPO's missing

First post First post
Author
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#281 - 2012-04-17 03:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Just considered one possible solution for the removal of unintended or unused 'priceless' items that might make everyone happy: Replace it with another priceless item.

By this I mean such an item as a unique piece of apparel of one of 3 varieties determined by the number of unique items lost and their quantity.

So, someone who loses say 20 unique items of unknown quantity, (for example Entity; though I have really no idea what he is actually missing as a result of this), gets a new Coat or some cool headgear modeled after the old Gallente stuff perhaps, someone who loses 5 unique items of unknown quantity gets some fancy T-Shirt possibly one branded with the CCP logo, and someone who loses 1 item gets something like a new cybernetic eye or earpiece.

So, based on simple numbers each item will be more common than the last, and it may be that one item is only a handful in number. That of course makes them priceless in varying degrees because really, only these people get them.

Apparel just makes sense because it is something that players can actually show off and use, and thus it has some real value as a collectible. So CCP could just make 3 -5 items of unique nature that do not effect gameplay or balance in any way and give them to those select individuals who have lost items that cannot be replaced but may have cost a great deal of time and ISK to aquire.

I say may have because I don't really believe they did. It's quite likely that players like Entity aquire these items either immediately in game or by waiting for them to show up in contracts for less than nothing, but why not just make it simple and assume they did work for them.

Heck, maybe thaey could make a T-shirt that says "I used to own an Anaconda Mine!" on the front. Lol I'm not taking this very seriously am I? At least I came up with a possible solution though. Blink

edit: I like this one too: All white lettering with an arrow pointing up above it - "Mining Drone - UNUSED" Lol
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
#282 - 2012-04-17 08:41:12 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
... Apparel ...

I can't believe that you have suggested replacing rare and unique in-game items with Space Barbie clothes. Please leave my game.
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#283 - 2012-04-17 15:26:18 UTC  |  Edited by: The Antiquarian
Mars Theran wrote:
Actually, it has been my experience that many things just cost a lot to manufacture, either in time or ISK.

I got a little irritated earlier because this thread seemed to be filled with ISK rich players raging at the Devs and threatening to quit over the loss of what are essentially useless items. Am I wrong?

Not only that, but it was all really targeted at one Dev who stepped forward and admitted that during the course of his job he may have accidently caused the deletion of some items that weren't really supposed to be deleted and he would do what he could to return them as soon as possible. That's fine and explanation enough for me and apparently most others, but suddenly we have a lynch mob of excessively ISK rich players running about.

Really, it's a game and if there are items that were never meant to be held or owned by players in the hands of players then it is only sensible to remove them. I'm not talking about some mining drone, but other items that don't seem to have been mentioned here. No idea what they are.

The Mining Drone - Improved UNUSED may well have dropped, (hopefully without the UNUSED tag which would have indicated somebody should have reported it at the time), and be a valid game item. Fine, good for you, you had one and if you ask politely maybe you should get it back, but lets not have a dramatic scene of you torching the castle over it.

Here's what I get out of this: The Entity, professed Lord of Items raged at an EVE Dev over the loss of some items in his possesion that were effectively owned through illegitimate means then threatened to quit. Well, I have to say my respect level for the guy just dropped through the floor. How about you?

Don't persecute the Devs, they're just doing their jobs. If in the course of that process things happen that you don't like let it be known through the usual means and I'm sure-as in the past-they'll be more than happy to accomodate. No need for pitchforks and machetes I think, particularly aftrer they've already said they're working on fixing it.

Also, if it isn't intended to be in the game in players hands then there is no reason you should have it and no reason you should ever have expected to be able to keep it. Why buy it in the first place? Well, now you have owned it and can make that claim, (as can anyone else who wants to really), and I have to wonder if you got you ISKs worth.

I suppose with all the complaining you didn't but thenit's a bit like buying an F-35 and expecting the government to let you keep it in your garage even though you can't use it. Actually, that would make more sense, but I don't see how you could complain when they came and picked it up without so much as a "..by your leave." Kind of like keeping a Nuke in your basement really.


No. No. No and no.

No one threatened with dropping subscription. Trust me. You can bet that Entity loves this game infinitely more than how much you love this game.

Entity did not acquire those items through illegitimate means. Before Entity and others corrected CCP Greyscale, CCP Greyscale initially assumed that most of the items that he deleted were acquired through illegitimate means. Now that he is corrected with proper fact, he decided to re-issue several of the items back to the players' hands.

What does this tell us? It tells us that CCP Greyscale did not place much care into checking facts and it is only because players demanded appropriate actions and gave CCP Greyscale some historical lessons and fact check, that he relented and decided to hand back the items.

Also if you refer to the property-right laws (at least in the U.S.), if a buyer makes purchase of an item acquired of illegitimate means, but without knowing the fact of its origin, the transfer is valid and the buyer gains ownership over the item. Most likely, Entity saw an item he hasn't seen (yes, capital implant) on the market and decided to buy it. If CCP decides to remove the item out of the database, then CCP should provide an appropriate compensation to Entity for the transaction costs and ISK he used to buy the implants.

I initially did not respond to your nonsensical remark about collectors trying to scam other players because such logic is almost @ a borderline-stupidity. I think you need a small lesson on basic business and economics before spitting out your nonsensical ramblings all over the wall.
Cambarus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#284 - 2012-04-17 15:40:26 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Actually, it has been my experience that many things just cost a lot to manufacture, either in time or ISK.

I got a little irritated earlier because this thread seemed to be filled with ISK rich players raging at the Devs and threatening to quit over the loss of what are essentially useless items. Am I wrong?
It's a game. Literally everything you own within it is useless, including your character. Some people enjoy getting killmails, others enjoy farming isk, and others still like collecting things. What exactly makes any one of those the right way to play the game, which is constantly labeled as a sandbox?
Mars Theran wrote:

Not only that, but it was all really targeted at one Dev who stepped forward and admitted that during the course of his job he may have accidently caused the deletion of some items that weren't really supposed to be deleted and he would do what he could to return them as soon as possible. That's fine and explanation enough for me and apparently most others, but suddenly we have a lynch mob of excessively ISK rich players running about.

Really, it's a game and if there are items that were never meant to be held or owned by players in the hands of players then it is only sensible to remove them. I'm not talking about some mining drone, but other items that don't seem to have been mentioned here. No idea what they are.

The Mining Drone - Improved UNUSED may well have dropped, (hopefully without the UNUSED tag which would have indicated somebody should have reported it at the time), and be a valid game item. Fine, good for you, you had one and if you ask politely maybe you should get it back, but lets not have a dramatic scene of you torching the castle over it.

"If you ask politely maybe you should get it back" Would you have that same attitude if CCP deleted your account? They have every right to do that, as do any gaming company that run MMOs, are you telling me you wouldn't be upset?

Mars Theran wrote:

Here's what I get out of this: The Entity, professed Lord of Items raged at an EVE Dev over the loss of some items in his possesion that were effectively owned through illegitimate means then threatened to quit. Well, I have to say my respect level for the guy just dropped through the floor. How about you?

Nope. Entity had more isk worth of items removed from him that I currently have isk. Hell, if I were to liquidate all my assets, and sell all my characters, I STILL wouldn't have enough to cover what entity lost because of a dev not double-checking his work, and I'd wager that neither would you.

Mars Theran wrote:

Don't persecute the Devs, they're just doing their jobs. If in the course of that process things happen that you don't like let it be known through the usual means and I'm sure-as in the past-they'll be more than happy to accomodate. No need for pitchforks and machetes I think, particularly aftrer they've already said they're working on fixing it.
The dev in question mistakenly deleted literally hundreds of billions of items that he wasn't supposed to. Had he done the reverse, GIVING players items worth that kind of money when he shouldn't have, we'd still be hearing about it years from now (here's lookin at you T20)

I'd say that stealing items from players is notably worse than giving them out, so why then shouldn't people be upset over this dev's screw up?

Mars Theran wrote:

Apparel just makes sense because it is something that players can actually show off and use, and thus it has some real value as a collectible. So CCP could just make 3 -5 items of unique nature that do not effect gameplay or balance in any way and give them to those select individuals who have lost items that cannot be replaced but may have cost a great deal of time and ISK to aquire.
How exactly do the already in-game items affect balance at all? They useless in terms of performance. You're literally suggesting ccp fix the issue of collectible items by introducing different collectible items. How is that any different/better?
Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#285 - 2012-04-17 16:09:23 UTC
I do not know the specifics of this problem, however given forum history I am quite certain it is somehow Goonswarm's fault.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#286 - 2012-04-17 17:57:55 UTC
Firsone wrote:
I had a Python Mine BPO in a research job when it dissapeared. Only found out about this thread via a petition.
How would that BPO be returned to me if the lab or tower is removed? where would it be placed? and would we be notified via a in game mail or something that the BPO's have been returned?

I had another Python Mine BPO on a different toon that was researched to 1000 ME and 1000 PE. I did this research to make it more unique. Would it still have that research on it or wil it change to 0 research?

According to statement by CCP - you'll get it back as zero researched.

I'd lose research on mine too - altho I'm still waiting for mine to be returned as well...

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#287 - 2012-04-18 02:37:42 UTC
Xython wrote:
I do not know the specifics of this problem, however given forum history I am quite certain it is somehow Goonswarm's fault.


It was probably Soundwave who distracted the Dev in charge of the DB cleanup, thereby causing him to accidentally delete these extremely useful items from the game.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2012-04-18 03:08:42 UTC
This reminds me of Greyscale's arbitrary Anom nerf a year ago post-FanFest. A decision out of the blue that pissed off a ton of players and started the ball rolling with CCP's 2011 Summer of Disaster.

Pissing off subscribers who use PLEX to buy collectibles may be hitting a very small group of players, but why alienate customers in an evermore competitive MMO market space? Tanks anyone?

Like past decisions, these database changes feel like they were made in vacuum with no collaboration or checks / balances. Isn't it time that CCP reign in this nonsense?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.

Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#289 - 2012-04-18 03:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentinel Smith
I would also like to know about Capsules. They have been mentioned in the other thread, but no official comment was made.

I purchased 2 not long ago.. Transported them via an alt, and traded them to this toon. They were in my hanger. I logged off, back on, and they were gone.

Is this intentional, or just some glitch ? I've petitioned over it, but have got no response [ petition made 10 days ago ].

If no one should have these, then I should never have been able to trade for them, or transport them. If you have now decided that we shouldn't have them, then we should be compensated. Why should WE be punished for purchasing something in game, only to have you decide that people shouldn't have them anymore ?

They were introduced into the game by you, CCP. Intentional or not.
They have remained in the game for all this time, with no statement saying that they are illegitimate, and may be removed.
You have allowed them to remain in game, allowed people to buy and trade for them. Removing them after that with no regard for that is rather disturbing.. And would be a kick in the balls to everyone in this sandbox.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#290 - 2012-04-18 07:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
Entity wrote:

Deleting player owned items = Deleting the game's legacy. Don't do it, CCP.


Master Zeuth wrote:
I think I'm starting to fall in love with Greyscale. He really is working his hardest to represent CCP's desire to disconnect from their community as much as possible and destroy their existing playerbase.


I am beginning to think that CCP Greyscale just enjoys the part of EVE where he trolls other EVE players and ruins THEIR game.

He doesn't want to let people refit their ships during combat either, because he doesn't like player driven gameplay.

I find it strange that he gets this much leeway in making decisions about lore, history and gameplay without anyone above him in CCP telling him he might want to cool down his crusade against player behaviour.

EDIT:

Also:
greyscale wrote:

I find it hard to believe that exactly one implant found its way into the game through wholly legitimate means. Further, in this particular case, we've deleted *all* the capital hardwirings because we didn't have any intention of releasing them any time soon. Leaving one of these things in the DB because some player has acquired one illicitly means that this exact kind of problem, where we have things in the DB that appear to be in game but which nobody can remember *why* they're ingame, is more likely to happen in future.


If we can't accuse devs from being "illicit" I'd like to favor returned, if you have proof of somebody did something wrong in the game to acquire an item show it. If you aren't capable of establishing its provenance that is your problem, I suggest you do some research and look it up, perhaps even use google. Ask somebody who actually knows what is in the DB and in the game or, you know, start it up and do a search.

If entitity or somebody else did something wrong ban em, but don't delete stuff because you don't know your own DB.

greyscale wrote:

This is exactly the kind of ongoing problem that we were trying to prevent in the first place with this cleanup.


They give us a desert and call it peace, I love the feel of a sterile world.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

NewGit
Mercenaries of Mayhem
HeeChee Uprising
#291 - 2012-04-18 08:27:07 UTC
I'm PO'd about this as well, even though it appears it is just my mine BPOs (and some mines I'd built as a lark) they stole. I paid for those items, they were legally acquired and were formerly in-game items.
It's not really any different than collecting anything else (i.e. comic books, baseball cards, etc). I paid money for those things (money -> PLEX -> Isk -> Purchase), and who knows, maybe one day someone would have made me a nice offer and I could have sold them and bought something else.

I'll be keeping an eye out for the return of my stuff and hope that in the future either CCP never makes anything that will ever become "rare" again (Zephyr for example ?), or will at least have the decency to do a little fact checking first and offer compensation of some sort.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#292 - 2012-04-18 08:59:41 UTC
Arrs Grazznic wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
... Apparel ...

I can't believe that you have suggested replacing rare and unique in-game items with Space Barbie clothes. Please leave my game.


Maybe you should have a look at Entities list then.

Collectibles are collectibles, no matter how you look at it. If your complaint is priceless, then you might want to check out the price of the limited versions of these things on the in-game market. What happens when they finish cycling through the make-quick-buck buys and resales and find their way into some collectors hangar, never to be seen again?

Still, it was just an idea. Feel free to like or dislike it as you wish of course. I still don't see any reason legitimately removed items should be returned, and I'm fine with you getting nothing for the loss of them. I believe I already said that. I also don't think you are being scammed by the Devs so much as each other and yourselves.

You tricked yourselves into thinking these items could actually be held in game and now they're gone and the game is up. Sad story but ultimately true. You never should have assumed that you would be able to keep them indefinitely and that is your own fault. Any loss you suffered for the aquisition of them is your own responsibility.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#293 - 2012-04-18 09:34:52 UTC
"Mars Theran" wrote:
.. stuff..


Cambarus wrote:
It's a game. Literally everything you own within it is useless, including your character. Some people enjoy getting killmails, others enjoy farming isk, and others still like collecting things. What exactly makes any one of those the right way to play the game, which is constantly labeled as a sandbox?

"If you ask politely maybe you should get it back" Would you have that same attitude if CCP deleted your account? They have every right to do that, as do any gaming company that run MMOs, are you telling me you wouldn't be upset?

Nope. Entity had more isk worth of items removed from him that I currently have isk. Hell, if I were to liquidate all my assets, and sell all my characters, I STILL wouldn't have enough to cover what entity lost because of a dev not double-checking his work, and I'd wager that neither would you.

The dev in question mistakenly deleted literally hundreds of billions of items that he wasn't supposed to. Had he done the reverse, GIVING players items worth that kind of money when he shouldn't have, we'd still be hearing about it years from now (here's lookin at you T20)

I'd say that stealing items from players is notably worse than giving them out, so why then shouldn't people be upset over this dev's screw up?

How exactly do the already in-game items affect balance at all? They useless in terms of performance. You're literally suggesting ccp fix the issue of collectible items by introducing different collectible items. How is that any different/better?


I played in a sandbox once when I was a kid. Thing is, I got expelled from Kindergarten because it just so happens this sandbox had rice in it and I decided to add water to the equation.

Hmm.. that one is actually harder to answer than you might think. I would care, but at the moment I am just paying to train skills and chat on the forums, and aside from a few purchases, I haven't done anything substantial in the game for quite awhile. Either way, it isn't a particularly good comparison given there is some difference between an account and a bunch of stuff in your hangar.

Yeah, farming ISK, (at least where it pertains to RMT, exploits, and botting), is bad or haven't you been keeping up with things? Mostly nobody cares about the exploits I guess, but the other two are quite frowned upon.

Hundreds of billions you say? Good gosh, I never thought so many... neither do I care as it's likely that people will get at least some of the legitimate ones back. As stated it was ~1000 unique items, which means people were stockpiling collectibles. What is the difference between 1 example of a useless item and many?

Stealing? How does this equal stealing? They were deleted while the Devs were trying to clean up the database. I suppose you've never had the experience of trying to clean something up? Still holding copies of every e-mail you've had since the invention of them are you? Imagine trying to sort through that and delete the spam.

Given your obvious lack of enthusiasm for my suggestions and opinions, I'll assume that you weren't quite level headed when you read this. My intent wasn't to imply the lost items hurt game balance, but rather to suggest that apparel as a replacement wasn't going to affect it either.

zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
ISD LoneLynx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2012-04-18 10:03:27 UTC
Minor deletions (zero-content posts removed). Please remember that the items in question were lost due to a technical fault — there's no need to be uncivil towards those who are affected by it.

ISD LoneLynx Lieutenant Support Team and Resources [STAR] Interstellar Services Department

Cambarus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#295 - 2012-04-18 18:14:02 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:


I played in a sandbox once when I was a kid. Thing is, I got expelled from Kindergarten because it just so happens this sandbox had rice in it and I decided to add water to the equation.

Hmm.. that one is actually harder to answer than you might think. I would care, but at the moment I am just paying to train skills and chat on the forums, and aside from a few purchases, I haven't done anything substantial in the game for quite awhile. Either way, it isn't a particularly good comparison given there is some difference between an account and a bunch of stuff in your hangar.
There really isn't any notable difference between the 2, since characters can be bought for isk, meaning anything worth isk also has a value in characters/skill points. The 2 are essentially equivalent then since they can be exchanged for one another.
Mars Theran wrote:

Yeah, farming ISK, (at least where it pertains to RMT, exploits, and botting), is bad or haven't you been keeping up with things? Mostly nobody cares about the exploits I guess, but the other two are quite frowned upon.
RMT, exploits, and botting are frowned upon. Regular carebearing is not.

Mars Theran wrote:

Stealing? How does this equal stealing? They were deleted while the Devs were trying to clean up the database. I suppose you've never had the experience of trying to clean something up? Still holding copies of every e-mail you've had since the invention of them are you? Imagine trying to sort through that and delete the spam.
Dictionary.com wrote:
Steal
Noun
1.
to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.

Now you could argue that CCP has the right to take things from its subscribers, but then that same logic could be applied to literally everyone in the game, as stealing is allowed according to the game rules, meaning you've a right to do it within the limits of the game.

[quote=Mars Theran]
Given your obvious lack of enthusiasm for my suggestions and opinions, I'll assume that you weren't quite level headed when you read this. My intent wasn't to imply the lost items hurt game balance, but rather to suggest that apparel as a replacement wasn't going to affect it either.

And my reply was that if you have no problem with new items being introduced as collectible items, then there's no reason why you should have a problem with the old ones, and if you have no problem with the old ones, in what way is it unreasonable for people to get upset when CCP arbitrarily decides to delete their stuff?

Also no, your idea would be soundly rejected by anyone thinking with a level head; a t-shirt that basically reads "this is how much CCP screwed me over by deleting X billion worth of stuff from my hangar" is in no way a reasonable substitute for the items themselves.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2012-04-18 19:31:10 UTC
ISD LoneLynx wrote:
Minor deletions (zero-content posts removed). Please remember that the items in question were lost due to a technical fault — there's no need to be uncivil towards those who are affected by it.

I'm not saying there's any reason to be uncivil.. But your statement is in err. It was not a technical fault that removed these items, It was a deliberate action by one of the Dev's.. I doubt there was any ill intent when he did it, but regardless, it has been done, and we are just trying to get items that are rightfully ours back into our hands.

And I'm still waiting for a dev to comment on the missing capsules :/
Meklon
Minmatar United Freedom Front
The 11th Hour Alliance
#297 - 2012-04-18 19:44:08 UTC
ISD LoneLynx wrote:
Minor deletions (zero-content posts removed). Please remember that the items in question were lost due to a technical fault — there's no need to be uncivil towards those who are affected by it.



CCP Greyscale wrote:
Hi,

Yes, this happened because of a thing that I did. We're looking at our options right now, but there are some other things I have to sort out first today. We'll get back to you!

-Greyscale

PS My player account owned both blueprints, I understand your pain.




Greyscale is a technical fault?
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#298 - 2012-04-18 21:01:18 UTC
ISD LoneLynx wrote:
Minor deletions (zero-content posts removed). Please remember that the items in question were lost due to a technical fault — there's no need to be uncivil towards those who are affected by it.
Sony called.

They are coming to your house to remove your TV that was 100% OK because of a "technical fault".

There will be no replacement.
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
#299 - 2012-04-19 13:53:42 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:
I would also like to know about Capsules. They have been mentioned in the other thread, but no official comment was made. I purchased 2 not long ago.. Transported them via an alt, and traded them to this toon. They were in my hanger. I logged off, back on, and they were gone.

Ouch, sorry to hear that. I keep mine in a station container and (just checked) they are still there. I'll send you an eve-mail shortly...
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
#300 - 2012-04-19 14:07:26 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Arrs Grazznic wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
... Apparel ...

I can't believe that you have suggested replacing rare and unique in-game items with Space Barbie clothes. Please leave my game.

... bit bitter as wasn't around when certain (now rare and deleted items) were freely available in game ...

I'm not a collector. I do not buy rare items, nor do I want WiS. Playing Space Barbie Dolls is not why I play EvE. Putting that aside I look forward to the day you log in to find some of your assets removed because a dev thought that they shouldn't be there. By your logic that will be fine.