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Are you a UK national? Did you know about this...

Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#21 - 2011-09-28 02:33:48 UTC
One thing that gets missed in these discussions is the fact that if you pulled every benefit, every pension, every retirement, and doled out nothing to the public, it still would not pay off the debt incurred by the bailing out of the globalist banksters.

The same banksters that use our governments like vending machines.


Yet we are supposed to argue with each other over this program or that benefit while the real criminals laugh all the way (back to their ) bank.



When we are ready to hoist black flags, then the effort is worth it.


Until then, it's hot air wasted on each other when we should be deciding on who brings the flag, the rope, and the poles.

There will be more poles than flags, so we'll just sharpen one end of those.




Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Adunh Slavy
#22 - 2011-09-28 03:08:42 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
... globalist banksters.



Quite true. Monetary arguments are over looked by most people, few people understand the scam that is fiat debt money.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-09-28 11:49:54 UTC
Our government is like CCP, fixing what isn't broken.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2011-09-28 12:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Do you not need the government to defend your country from foreign invasion, provide schools, or invest in things like road building or power generation?


Since when are medical services and national defense the same thing? Because people want national defense, they also must want th government to wipe their nose as well?

As for schools, I see room for both government and private. The problems come when national government attempts to regulate and force payments. Governments hate competition. As for roads, they can be owned by local governments. Do you really need a national highway board to tell your town just what it needs to do?



Personally, I'd much rather give the government £100 a month out of my wages and have them use that to treat not only me but people who can't afford to contribute, than give some private insurance company £200 a month for shoddy care that leaves people with no money with only the barest cover.

Here's something else to consider. Who should run care homes for the elderly? I guess you would say that private companies are best. But the people in Southern Cross homes would probably disagree with you - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Cross_Healthcare_%28United_Kingdom%29.

As for roads, yes local authorities can look after them. Indeed, in the UK they often do. But someone central also needs to get involved. Otherwise you run into problems when a road crosses the border between local authorities.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2011-09-28 12:08:41 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
One thing that gets missed in these discussions is the fact that if you pulled every benefit, every pension, every retirement, and doled out nothing to the public, it still would not pay off the debt incurred by the bailing out of the globalist banksters.

The same banksters that use our governments like vending machines.


Yet we are supposed to argue with each other over this program or that benefit while the real criminals laugh all the way (back to their ) bank.



When we are ready to hoist black flags, then the effort is worth it.


Until then, it's hot air wasted on each other when we should be deciding on who brings the flag, the rope, and the poles.

There will be more poles than flags, so we'll just sharpen one end of those.






Quick Robin - to the Billion Pound o Gram

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2011-09-28 15:37:35 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Do you not need the government to defend your country from foreign invasion, provide schools, or invest in things like road building or power generation?


Since when are medical services and national defense the same thing? Because people want national defense, they also must want th government to wipe their nose as well?




Over here, medical services are a human right not a business.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#27 - 2011-09-28 21:16:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Do you not need the government to defend your country from foreign invasion, provide schools, or invest in things like road building or power generation?


Since when are medical services and national defense the same thing? Because people want national defense, they also must want th government to wipe their nose as well?




Over here, medical services are a human right not a business.



The right to defend yourself is a human right, so I wish we could apply that here and get free guns.

Oh wait, we pick and choose and a "right" is and what is not a right, right?


Who gets to pick and choose for you? Bet your not happy with it.


The safest rights to bank on ensuring are those of the smallest minority: the individual.

Everything else fails and costs too much.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2011-09-28 21:45:48 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:



The right to defend yourself is a human right, so I wish we could apply that here and get free guns.





We have that right, we just dont need guns to do itRoll
Adunh Slavy
#29 - 2011-09-28 23:22:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Over here, medical services are a human right not a business.



Keep telling your self that.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#30 - 2011-09-29 02:29:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:



The right to defend yourself is a human right, so I wish we could apply that here and get free guns.





We have that right, we just dont need guns to do itRoll



Perchance was your brainwashing anything like this?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Cypermethren
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-09-29 07:20:10 UTC
The real source of this entire problem lies with the pharma companies.


They dont make profit by curing people. They make profit from continualy treating the Symptoms. We will NEVER have a cure for Cancer, Aids, and all the other big ones while the pharma companies have such monopoly/power over the politicians.


With the number of cures for diseases and ailments on a very sharp decrease, and the variety of different brands and types of treatments that only treat the symptoms on the drematic increase..... it can only lead to one thing... more changes getting pushed thru parliment that further benefit the pharma companies.


It is the same issue with the Oil companies and Free Energy devices. You can run you're entire house off a box the size of a barfridge, you can run a car off olive oil or just plane water. You can fill a space of a small trash can with plastic waste, flick a switch and 30mins later you'll have a jar full of kerosene.


The entire problems of the world today, sit on the back of greedy people at the heads of greedy corporations. The government, should also be classed as a greedy corporation. When two million take to the streets in the UK to protest something govt put thru - and they do it anyway - how much more proof do you people need that the government works to please Corporations, not the average Joe like you and i? And more importantly - when and how - do we the people put our foot down, say enough is enough, and force change?



Also in Australia, defending yourself is not a human right. If someone breaks into you're home and assaults you - the police orders are to retreat and call them for assistance. If you fight back, wound or kill you're attacker - YOU will end up in jail.

I cried the day a burglar broke into someones house via removing roof tiles - and fell thru the roof of the house and became stuck there. The owners eventualy got home, called the police and had him removed. The burglar then SUED the home owners for damages done to him when he fell thru the roof - and he won the case. This was many years ago, and the world has degenerated further since :(


Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2011-09-29 09:19:21 UTC
Cypermethren wrote:


Also in Australia, defending yourself is not a human right. If someone breaks into you're home and assaults you - the police orders are to retreat and call them for assistance. If you fight back, wound or kill you're attacker - YOU will end up in jail.

I cried the day a burglar broke into someones house via removing roof tiles - and fell thru the roof of the house and became stuck there. The owners eventualy got home, called the police and had him removed. The burglar then SUED the home owners for damages done to him when he fell thru the roof - and he won the case. This was many years ago, and the world has degenerated further since :(




Do you have a source for that?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Jon Engel
Machete Carbide
#33 - 2011-09-29 19:04:07 UTC
Cypermethren wrote:


Also in Australia, defending yourself is not a human right. If someone breaks into you're home and assaults you - the police orders are to retreat and call them for assistance. If you fight back, wound or kill you're attacker - YOU will end up in jail.

I cried the day a burglar broke into someones house via removing roof tiles - and fell thru the roof of the house and became stuck there. The owners eventualy got home, called the police and had him removed. The burglar then SUED the home owners for damages done to him when he fell thru the roof - and he won the case. This was many years ago, and the world has degenerated further since :(





Move here to America, I'll send you a gun as a welcome to freedom present.

Also, the problem with Healthcare in America is that the public sector drives up the costs for the private sector so more and more people have to rely on Government funded healthcare. Now to break it down further. In America we have several ways and levels of funding our healthcare.

There is of course a few programs at the Federal level which is regulated and funded and overseen by Congress. Than the bulk of our Medical Welfare programs are funded at the State and territorial levels. All 50 states and the freak non-states like Guam or Puerto Rico all have some form of medical assistance to the poor people.

Large urban areas of both City and County have forms of this as well. Los Angeles, New York city etc.

Now here is the kicker ladies and gentleman. Poor person walks into a hospital with a broken arm. Real costs of broken arm treatment are around a few hundred dollars. Hospital upsells it to around 10,000 bucks and sends bill to Government or Insurance company. Why? Because they can.

Pharmaceutical company spends millions of dollars lobbying FDA and Congress to get a new drug passed that does the same thing as 50 other pills already on the market. FDA beauracracy keeps costs high, no competition in pharmaceutical market allows them to charge what they want.

I'll offer some simple advice friends. You don't need pills for everything, if you got a headache go to the corner store and get a 5 dollar box of storebrand aspirin and move on. You got a cold, take some vitamin C and the other cheap stuff you get at walgreens and move on with your life. Got the flu? Stay in bed and do the same for the cold.

Despite what you may think. Medical Insurance is not the same as pre-paid medical care which is essentially what all western nations have applied and still call it insurance. Medical care should not be expensive, which is what I am trying to sya here. Doctors and physicians should work for what the customer (or market) is willing to pay them. Hospitals ought to be competing for business, they are not.

More competition would drive down costs, and I'm sorry but the FDA needs to go and we need to get Government out of Healthcare as much as possible. Unless you think they are doing a fine job of it now? Look at the UK. Hand over your healthcare to parliament and all you get is politics. Not better healthcare.

end of rant.
Spineker
#34 - 2011-09-30 03:34:55 UTC
Get a job? Umm hello?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2011-09-30 13:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Jon Engel wrote:
Look at the UK. Hand over your healthcare to parliament and all you get is politics. Not better healthcare.

end of rant.


Err, most people in the UK quite like the NHS, which is better run than the US system. Frankly, I'd much rather have doctors accountable to elected politicians than profit-hungry insurance companies, but you're welcome to disagree with me.


http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/2048/NHS-50th-Anniversary-Poll.aspx

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/06_june/30/nhs.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Health_care_cost_rise.svg

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#36 - 2011-09-30 20:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Rodj Blake wrote:
Jon Engel wrote:
Look at the UK. Hand over your healthcare to parliament and all you get is politics. Not better healthcare.

end of rant.


Err, most people in the UK quite like the NHS, which is better run than the US system. Frankly, I'd much rather have doctors accountable to elected politicians than profit-hungry insurance companies, but you're welcome to disagree with me.


A lot of Americans share that attitude, but this "government versus the medical establishment" this is a show.

Take a closer look at what is referred to as "Obamacare" and you will see that it's not what people think.

I know a fellow who makes a lot of money and drives a BMW bragging about how a more European style of health insurance would put the "evil greedy medical industry" in its place.

But alas Before boarding Air Force One earlier in the week, one-time maverick congressman Dennis Kucinich characterized the bill as “a bailout for insurance companies.” Prior to subjecting himself to Obama’s voodoo — or threats, nobody knows really — Kucinich said Obamacare was designed for Wall Street banksters.

The moral of the story is not to rely on governments for ANYTHING. Whether it's medical care, self defense, or predicting the weather. It does not matter how many declarations, proclamations, lists of rights, blustery statements in parliaments, representative houses, or whatever they call them, not mattering how many brothers sisters cousins roomates got killed in what war or wherever, people are going to suck, they are going to mishandle money, take more power than they have the right to, and they will use democracy as their tool to put your money in their pocket, whether it's some fat cat on Wall Street wanting a bailout or your neighbor across the street wanting a fatter retirement check.

To want more of the same from the same people who take more than they should is beyond stupidity. Sad to see the Western world sink so low.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2011-10-01 08:28:31 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Jon Engel wrote:
Look at the UK. Hand over your healthcare to parliament and all you get is politics. Not better healthcare.

end of rant.


Err, most people in the UK quite like the NHS, which is better run than the US system. Frankly, I'd much rather have doctors accountable to elected politicians than profit-hungry insurance companies, but you're welcome to disagree with me.


A lot of Americans share that attitude, but this "government versus the medical establishment" this is a show.

Take a closer look at what is referred to as "Obamacare" and you will see that it's not what people think.

I know a fellow who makes a lot of money and drives a BMW bragging about how a more European style of health insurance would put the "evil greedy medical industry" in its place.

But alas Before boarding Air Force One earlier in the week, one-time maverick congressman Dennis Kucinich characterized the bill as “a bailout for insurance companies.” Prior to subjecting himself to Obama’s voodoo — or threats, nobody knows really — Kucinich said Obamacare was designed for Wall Street banksters.

The moral of the story is not to rely on governments for ANYTHING. Whether it's medical care, self defense, or predicting the weather. It does not matter how many declarations, proclamations, lists of rights, blustery statements in parliaments, representative houses, or whatever they call them, not mattering how many brothers sisters cousins roomates got killed in what war or wherever, people are going to suck, they are going to mishandle money, take more power than they have the right to, and they will use democracy as their tool to put your money in their pocket, whether it's some fat cat on Wall Street wanting a bailout or your neighbor across the street wanting a fatter retirement check.

To want more of the same from the same people who take more than they should is beyond stupidity. Sad to see the Western world sink so low.


Yes, Obamacare does give a lot of money to insurance companies. That's because of the lobbying power that they have in the US.

It just helps the argument that you Americans should adopt a UK-style system which doesn't require private insurance. That requires strong government, not government that's beholden to corporate interests.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2011-10-01 15:51:07 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:


Yes, Obamacare does give a lot of money to insurance companies. That's because of the lobbying power that they have in the US.

It just helps the argument that you Americans should adopt a UK-style system which doesn't require private insurance. That requires strong government, not government that's beholden to corporate interests.


Too many vested interests to stop Americans from having an NHS and even if the political will was there, you would have to confront the right wing who think the NHS is the devilStraight
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#39 - 2011-10-01 16:00:31 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Jon Engel wrote:
Look at the UK. Hand over your healthcare to parliament and all you get is politics. Not better healthcare.

end of rant.


Err, most people in the UK quite like the NHS, which is better run than the US system. Frankly, I'd much rather have doctors accountable to elected politicians than profit-hungry insurance companies, but you're welcome to disagree with me.




Exactly.

I still haven't heard from any Americans who think that their system is better than ours to explain why theirs is better than ours when we have NHS doctors going out to community centres in the somewhat less than affluent areas of the US and treat the American sick. Naturally, we tend not to see this reported on Fox News.

The boot on the other foot? Do we see American doctors providng free medical aid here in the UK? Erm, no.


Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Trush
Liberation By Annihilation
#40 - 2011-10-02 03:16:52 UTC
"The frog trapped in the well swallows the moon" - some Zen saying

Incredibly influential people are no more in control than those in the slums. I'm not tossing around nihilism but trying to cope in my cryptic way.

I've been off the rails about banks/lobbies/mongorers before, and it takes a great deal of effort not to wall'o'text any time such a topic is brought up.

At any rate, that's my chiming in and and I hope the UK citizens don't end up dealing w/ the same wretched 'privileges' more and more US folks have to.

"Live long, so you can spend all you're money doing so" - wealthcare
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