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Why isn't Eve more successful?
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Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#221 - 2012-04-17 22:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Ranger 1 wrote:


No, but fortunately the level of hysteria has dropped to tolerable levels, and more people have been educated on what "Cyber Bullying" actually is.



Quote:
What Is Cyberbullying?

Cyberbullying is the use of technology to harass, threaten, embarrass, or target another person. By definition, it occurs among young people. When an adult is involved, it may meet the definition of cyber-harassment or cyber-stalking, a crime that can have legal consequences and involve jail time.


yeah TOTALLY has nothing to do with what he did

oh wait it IS EXACTLY what he did

EVEN JUST WITH THE SLIDES

http://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/cyberbullying.html

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
YuuKnow
The Scope
#222 - 2012-04-17 22:21:49 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Very little "personal" customization. Ships are all copy pasted, often times even going from T1 to T2 only changes some details into "golden" looks and little else. Most modern games give deep degrees of customization, in EvE you can't even set the color.


I think the new character creators have improved this quit a bit. I hate the thought of players being able to make there ships pink and yellow.... What?
Rekon X
Doomheim
#223 - 2012-04-17 22:22:09 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:

6) The UI - I tried to get a buddy of mine to join me in this game a few weeks ago. He's a big PVP'er in pretty much every game he's played and he's into the spreadsheet/calculation/market games as well, so I figured he'd love this game. Instead, he logged on for about 30 minutes and then emailed me that he was going to play LoL because the UI on this game was so horrible. I've tried to get him to give it more time, but haven't had any luck. Given that he would love this game if he got into it, it's pretty sad that potential customers like this are being chased away by a bad UI (I'm not sure why he disliked it so much.. it can be fairly unresponsive at times, though).


Real gamers use the keyboard. You have no flight control, Everything is mouse clicks, and lackluster combat.

I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#224 - 2012-04-17 22:22:40 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
As somebody who is fairly new to the game (my main account is about 45 days old), here are the reasons I think the game isn't more successful:

1) Not heavily advertised

2) Extremely steep learning curve (I spent hours and hours digesting information on the web.. a lot of people don't have that type of patience.. or they just spam the general help channel with questions and get angry when people don't respond to them.)

3) High-sec Griefing: You run into some griefers very early in the game and are told that nothing can be done about it (for example, I did the newbie quests, then ran the sisters of eve quests.. when I was doing the dagan quest, some guy tracked me down, killed dagan, looted it, and then tried to sell it to me for 100 million ISK - when I barely had 20 mil to my name). I had only been playing the game for about 2 weeks at that point, and if I didn't come from a fairly hardcore gaming background (e.g., if I was a younger gamer), I probably would've quit and never come back. I still can't continue that epic chain because the quest doesn't reset and you can't find Dagan's for sale. Eve encourages griefing, and most players don't like that. A lot of players like open and engaging PVP, but not griefing. If this game didn't allow griefing in high-sec, I would think that subscription numbers would be significantly higher than they are now. But at the same time, being free from worry about attack in high-sec would entirely change the concept of Eve (never safe from attack) and how it functions. I'd like to think there's a balance somewhere in there, but I haven't played long enough to come up with any great ideas. FWIW, I don't think high-sec griefing should be removed entirely.. but I just feel like there's something that could be done to restrict when/where it can be done and to be a little more forgiving for newer players or even carebears (who fill a necessary role in the game).

4) The inability to train more than one character on an account at a time. Just a money grab. And being able to train all three characters at once would allow newer players to achieve functionally useful skill templates earlier in time (e.g., I could train up a logi, a dps and an exploration character all at the same time and then switch between what I need).

5) Perceived gap between veterans and new players in terms of ability to be of value or to have any chance of winning in PVP. A fully trained PVP griefer in his destroyer who ninja salvages and loots in the hopes of being attacked by a lvl 2 mission running noob is going to wipe the noob regardless of the ship the noob is flying.

6) The UI - I tried to get a buddy of mine to join me in this game a few weeks ago. He's a big PVP'er in pretty much every game he's played and he's into the spreadsheet/calculation/market games as well, so I figured he'd love this game. Instead, he logged on for about 30 minutes and then emailed me that he was going to play LoL because the UI on this game was so horrible. I've tried to get him to give it more time, but haven't had any luck. Given that he would love this game if he got into it, it's pretty sad that potential customers like this are being chased away by a bad UI (I'm not sure why he disliked it so much.. it can be fairly unresponsive at times, though).


as far as derailing the thread, I like how this was ignored with talk about Odo

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2012-04-17 22:23:09 UTC
honestly? its probably because its sci fi.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#226 - 2012-04-17 22:32:31 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
honestly? its probably because its sci fi.


yeah if it was fantasy....

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Rekon X
Doomheim
#227 - 2012-04-17 22:47:59 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Rekon X wrote:
Welsige wrote:
Rekon X wrote:


You sit and watch an sp counter tick by so you can 'train'.



But thats what makes this game great.

You dont need to grind skills. "kill 10 of this, kill 20 of that, baam, master hunter achieved!...."

You just need to play.

If to play is to you grinding skills, then it certainly isnt a fun activity.

If your play is to pvp, pve and play the market, its wonderful.

But granted, early game sucks.

CCP could work a little the SP thing, giving ways to players accelerate it somewhat, like droped boosters in complexes working like faction items on a loot table. That would be interesting.


Yea, but Newegg has a preorder special on Diablo. I know I'll have more fun playing that than what I'm doing now.

I don't know what it's like later in this game, cause I can't go to 0.0 with 1.4m SP, or do much of anything really. But I can close my account and I won't have to wait on skills to train anymore before I can play.

I'm not sitting around to 5 million, or some corps want 20million sp to join.

This is retarted.


If you don't enjoy the game of course you should find one you enjoy.

However the number of things you can do with even 1.4m SP is incredible... all you are doing is limiting yourself by thinking you have to have a certain amount of SP before you can try something out.

If you stay, stop waiting for skills to finish. Go out and play.

Death means nothing, and as long as you only fly what you can afford to lose what have you got to fear?

Have you even finished the tutorials yet?


I did the tutorials, and managed to finish Blood Stained Stars.

Roamed 0.0 in my noobie ship, cause I didn't want to lose anything expensive, got blown up twice.

I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#228 - 2012-04-17 22:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
On a related note I'm just going to say that the new introduction missions are ********.

They give you a gun and a shield booster/armor repper and tell you to equip them. The gun goes on just fine, the tank mod doesn't. You don't have the skill to equip the tank mod, and even if they gave you the skillbook you don't have the prereqs to equip it, nor the money to buy the skillbook.

Great job there guys.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#229 - 2012-04-17 23:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


No, but fortunately the level of hysteria has dropped to tolerable levels, and more people have been educated on what "Cyber Bullying" actually is.



Quote:
What Is Cyberbullying?

Cyberbullying is the use of technology to harass, threaten, embarrass, or target another person. By definition, it occurs among young people. When an adult is involved, it may meet the definition of cyber-harassment or cyber-stalking, a crime that can have legal consequences and involve jail time.


yeah TOTALLY has nothing to do with what he did

oh wait it IS EXACTLY what he did

EVEN JUST WITH THE SLIDES

http://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/cyberbullying.html


Thank you for proving my point. Smile

You do realize that The Wiz's real name was never revealed right... and that The Wis is 42.

Now if you want to accuse him of cyber-harassment or cyber-stalking go right ahead. Of course you won't because...

1: Cyber Bullying is the catch phrase of the month, and you don't get the over reaction with the other phrases.

2: You'd be laughed at, as no actual bullying, harassment, or stalking ever actually took place. If you insist on maintaining that it did, perhaps you should start by convincing the 42 year old "victim" of this first.

Time to quit before you embarrass yourself further.

Stop attempting to derail the thread.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#230 - 2012-04-17 23:16:50 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Rekon X wrote:
Welsige wrote:
Rekon X wrote:


You sit and watch an sp counter tick by so you can 'train'.



But thats what makes this game great.

You dont need to grind skills. "kill 10 of this, kill 20 of that, baam, master hunter achieved!...."

You just need to play.

If to play is to you grinding skills, then it certainly isnt a fun activity.

If your play is to pvp, pve and play the market, its wonderful.

But granted, early game sucks.

CCP could work a little the SP thing, giving ways to players accelerate it somewhat, like droped boosters in complexes working like faction items on a loot table. That would be interesting.


Yea, but Newegg has a preorder special on Diablo. I know I'll have more fun playing that than what I'm doing now.

I don't know what it's like later in this game, cause I can't go to 0.0 with 1.4m SP, or do much of anything really. But I can close my account and I won't have to wait on skills to train anymore before I can play.

I'm not sitting around to 5 million, or some corps want 20million sp to join.

This is retarted.


If you don't enjoy the game of course you should find one you enjoy.

However the number of things you can do with even 1.4m SP is incredible... all you are doing is limiting yourself by thinking you have to have a certain amount of SP before you can try something out.

If you stay, stop waiting for skills to finish. Go out and play.

Death means nothing, and as long as you only fly what you can afford to lose what have you got to fear?

Have you even finished the tutorials yet?


I did the tutorials, and managed to finish Blood Stained Stars.

Roamed 0.0 in my noobie ship, cause I didn't want to lose anything expensive, got blown up twice.


Good for you, you did more than many do.

A rookie ship may not be very survivable, but at least you got a look at whats out there (not that 0.0 needs to be your first stop).

You might take a few minutes and get in touch with EVE University. They can show you a lot to keep you busy even in high sec, and give you a real idea of what the game has to offer.

Currently you haven't really done more than scratch the surface. Things start to gel once you start making friends... and enemies.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#231 - 2012-04-17 23:36:39 UTC
Matrix Operator wrote:
I don't get it. The most beautiful graphics in the industry, a great storyline with great lore, and the lure of space, and Eve only gets 300k subscribers even after 10 tens of work. Some company makes an MMOPG with dancing Elves and ponies and it peaks at 9mil subscribers...

It can't be that wizard/fantasy is more popular than space-sci-fi. Aren't Star Wars and Star Trek proof that space-fiction has the larger following (as opposed to say, Lord of the Rings). And if so, why would 9mil players play with Elves, but only 1/30th of that choose sexy spacegraphics.

I don't get it. Can someone explain it to me?

Not that it's the only reason, but space isn't as alluring as it once was. This isn't the 90s, when you had X-Wing, Freespace, etc. games coming out regularly. Space games tend to be niche, now, and Star Wars has been riding mostly on Jedi since the end of the 90s.
WarlockX
Free Trade Corp
#232 - 2012-04-17 23:38:54 UTC
Because EVE does not market well to PVE players and it also does not market well to PVP players. It has limited niche market to select few ppl.

PVE Players want:
1) Character Progression - EVE has 0, log out and wait for skills to train is optimal progression.
2) Big boss fights with special mechanics. WOW expansion content is pretty much measured in how many bosses there are that are not tank and spank and bosses with repeat mechanics are usually frowned upon.
3) If there is PVP in the game it be kept away from the PVE part, especially the mentioned "boss fights"
4) These players measure success based on how much farther ahead in levels in loot they are, and how hard it is to get this loot/levels. Waiting for skills means they can never be ahead based on their effort, and loot that is transferable means it does not prove you finished the "content".

PVP Players want:
1) Rankings!
2) Match making that faces together people of similar rank so that you don't have high ranked feeding off low ranking players to artificially boost their rank.
3) EVEN Matches - PVP players hate unfair advantages as that means you cannot tell if the #1 player truly deserves his rank or whether he had a bunch of unfair advantages.


So who does EVE market to then? Only sandbox gamers, who enjoy uneven non matched, non ranked pvp.
Derek Wiildstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#233 - 2012-04-17 23:43:26 UTC
I'm a pretty new player and I have to stay I like most of the features of the game. My only real gripe is the high cost and low availability of PvP. I'd like to fight 4 or 5 battles a night against somewhat reasonable odds but the high price of loosing ships or being podded, or even finding someone to fight is very high.

The first rule I learned when my corp was wardec: Don't do anything. I couldn't go looking for a fight, I couldn't take a chance on mining, I couldn't even join the fleet battles because every loss counts. That's a crap system. It's suppose to be a PvP game and yet most people (including me) hide shy away from any fights that's not in their favor just due to the cost and bragging rights.

What some advice? Setup hi sec wars like old medieval battles. Both sides are locked into a time and place and that battle determines who won the war.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#234 - 2012-04-17 23:44:02 UTC
The self-entitlement to being better than all other mmorpg gamers is truly.....not surprising.

I love this game as much as anyone else, but other mmo's fulfill things this game doesn't.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2012-04-17 23:56:23 UTC
Why isn't Eve more successful?


Because CCP allows and probably encourages:

Scammers
Griefers
Spammers
Thieves
Gankers
Campers
Trolls

Also broken game mechanics.



'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Lord Rixus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#236 - 2012-04-18 00:04:32 UTC
...because EVE is boring. I'm currently on my 3rd (i think) attempt at EVE since launch. I always quit because I log in and there is simply nothing to do... set skills, log off, repeat.

Can go on long nothing-seems-to-happen roams but in **** ships its kind of lame.
Rekon X
Doomheim
#237 - 2012-04-18 00:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rekon X
Ersahi Kir wrote:
On a related note I'm just going to say that the new introduction missions are ********.

They give you a gun and a shield booster/armor repper and tell you to equip them. The gun goes on just fine, the tank mod doesn't. You don't have the skill to equip the tank mod, and even if they gave you the skillbook you don't have the prereqs to equip it, nor the money to buy the skillbook.

Great job there guys.


Yea, needs to be a civilian shield booster that requires no skills.

What is that, the 2nd mission a player gets and it's fail.

I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all.
Arrakasi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#238 - 2012-04-18 00:29:07 UTC
1. People can't get their head around the idea that your ship is your main avatar.

2. Bad UI.

3. Boring and time consuming PvE content.... and I hesitate to call it content.

4. The game has this "l33t" culture that turns off most gamers.

5. Passive skill progression that is just about misunderstood by everyone, even those who have been playing for years.

6. Lack of physics and control of your ship.. plus it's not exactly responsive.Try double clicking in any direction and see how long it takes for the ship to change course.

7. Griefing, full loot, scamming etc.

8. You never feel that you are "in the fight" even when you are dueling, you feel like an interested observer rather than a participant.

9. The learning "cliff".

10. The game plays better in your head than in reality.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#239 - 2012-04-18 01:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Ranger 1 wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


No, but fortunately the level of hysteria has dropped to tolerable levels, and more people have been educated on what "Cyber Bullying" actually is.



Quote:
What Is Cyberbullying?

Cyberbullying is the use of technology to harass, threaten, embarrass, or target another person. By definition, it occurs among young people.When an adult is involved, it may meet the definition of cyber-harassment or cyber-stalking, a crime that can have legal consequences and involve jail time.


yeah TOTALLY has nothing to do with what he did

oh wait it IS EXACTLY what he did

EVEN JUST WITH THE SLIDES

http://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/cyberbullying.html


.


you ignored the part after you underlined that still agrees with what I said...

By definition, it occurs among young people.

BUT

When an adult is involved, it may meet the definition of cyber-harassment or cyber-stalking, a crime that can have legal consequences and involve jail time.

By definition, it occurs among young people. BUT when it happens with adults ITS WORSE and can get you JAIL TIME

neat how you thought the statement ended where you liked it... too bad it didnt

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Dr Silkworth
#240 - 2012-04-18 01:22:07 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
On a related note I'm just going to say that the new introduction missions are ********.

They give you a gun and a shield booster/armor repper and tell you to equip them. The gun goes on just fine, the tank mod doesn't. You don't have the skill to equip the tank mod, and even if they gave you the skillbook you don't have the prereqs to equip it, nor the money to buy the skillbook.

Great job there guys.


I have to agree. I did a buddy account just to try out the new player experience. I was lost, gave up on the idea, transferred some isk. screwed up by picking the wrong ship to focus on, went completely unfocused, passive, active, blasters drones and rockets that need 4's on fitting skills to fit. buddy is about up and toon is just starting to shape up.

Should have bought a rifter.