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[RSS] Exploit notification: "Boomerang" - avoiding CONCORD in high security space

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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#141 - 2012-03-31 08:45:05 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:
We could easily fix this by simply making it impossible to attack anyone in high sec ever, no exceptions. This is a situation no one wants.

No my dearest Watson, on the contrary, this is a situation that a great deal of many people want.

I think he means it is a situation no one they are going to listen to wants. ;)
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-03-31 15:03:36 UTC
CCP is going down the slippery slope of catering to casuals.


Soon we'll have PvP flags and arena matches. They say no now, but they've not fully sold out to Sony yet.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
JiZzLoObber
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2012-03-31 19:57:23 UTC
Shocked

Hillarious, thanks CCCP for thinking of this MONTHS after Goonswarm Shrugged. lol, I belive they even had threads posted about how to execute this "Boomerang" Timing Fail? LMAO

For the record Goons, thanks for driving Oxy to prices to silly, just silly, levels. Every time my wallet blinks I try to remember not to hate you as much....
Violet Giraffe
Space Giraffes
#144 - 2012-04-01 11:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Giraffe
Could someone please clarify what is "Boomerang" tactics, and what exactly is considered exploit? I'm confused by GM saying there are some techniques that are not exploits, what does it mean?

P. S. I'm a new player, only slightly familiar with suicide ganking and CONCORD mechanics.
Corp 5py
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-04-02 11:03:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Corp 5py
The exploit part is leaving the grid where Global Criminal Cooldown was acquired.

Boomerang was:

1. shoot ship 1
2. warp off grid before concord shows up <--exploit, this bit gets you banned now
3. Warp back to ship 1, shoot again (or shoot some other ship) while concord is still in warp
4. repeat


You may, however, warp on the same grid, thus making a mini-boomerang manover. The leaving the grid part is the bannable bit... what if you don't leave the grid ?
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#146 - 2012-04-02 11:08:53 UTC
The whining from some people claiming to be PvPler is worse then anything that ever came from the miners side.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#147 - 2012-04-02 11:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Corp 5py wrote:
The exploit part is leaving the grid where Global Criminal Cooldown was acquired.

Boomerang was:

1. shoot ship 1
2. warp off grid before concord shows up on <--exploit, this bit gets you banned now
3. Warp back to ship 1, shoot again (or shoot some other ship) while concord is still in warp
4. repeat


You may, however, warp on the same grid, thus making a mini-boomerang manover. The leaving the grid part is the bannable bit... what if you don't leave the grid ?


No, no no no no. Read CCP's announcement closely.

1. shoot ship 1
2. warp off grid before concord shows up on (THIS is perfectly legal)
3. Warp back to ship 1, shoot again (or shoot some other ship) while concord is still in warp (THIS IS NOW EXPLOIT)
4. repeat


Oh, and I never claimed to be a PVPer. I'm better than that. I'm a ganker.
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2012-04-02 11:16:17 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Corp 5py wrote:
The exploit part is leaving the grid where Global Criminal Cooldown was acquired.

Boomerang was:

1. shoot ship 1
2. warp off grid before concord shows up on <--exploit, this bit gets you banned now
3. Warp back to ship 1, shoot again (or shoot some other ship) while concord is still in warp
4. repeat


You may, however, warp on the same grid, thus making a mini-boomerang manover. The leaving the grid part is the bannable bit... what if you don't leave the grid ?


No, no no no no. Read CCP's announcement closely.

1. shoot ship 1
2. warp off grid before concord shows up on (THIS is perfectly legal)
3. Warp back to ship 1, shoot again (or shoot some other ship) while concord is still in warp (THIS IS NOW EXPLOIT)
4. repeat


Oh, and I never claimed to be a PVPer. I'm better than that. I'm a ganker.


Thanks god you at least reconogize that you're even more carebear than the carebears you say to shoot. At least they are risking themselves to be ganked while flying a hauler/mining ship.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#149 - 2012-04-02 11:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Corp 5py wrote:
The exploit part is leaving the grid where Global Criminal Cooldown was acquired.

Boomerang was:

1. shoot ship 1
2. warp off grid before concord shows up on <--exploit, this bit gets you banned now
3. Warp back to ship 1, shoot again (or shoot some other ship) while concord is still in warp
4. repeat


You may, however, warp on the same grid, thus making a mini-boomerang manover. The leaving the grid part is the bannable bit... what if you don't leave the grid ?


No, no no no no. Read CCP's announcement closely.

1. shoot ship 1
2. warp off grid before concord shows up on (THIS is perfectly legal)
3. Warp back to ship 1, shoot again (or shoot some other ship) while concord is still in warp (THIS IS NOW EXPLOIT)
4. repeat


Oh, and I never claimed to be a PVPer. I'm better than that. I'm a ganker.


Thanks god you at least reconogize that you're even more carebear than the carebears you say to shoot. At least they are risking themselves to be ganked while flying a hauler/mining ship.


Nope, not saying I'm a carebear either. I'm better than that. I'm a ganker.

Miners have a very tiny chance of being ganked on any given day, have the option of tanking - and get guaranteed profits.
I take a guaranteed loss, can easily be podded - am not guaranteed a kill, let alone a profit.
My only reward is tears and creating a trail of dead miners.

So, your carebear slur simply falls flat. Please try again!
SPACCO TUTTO
Blue Loot Consortium
#150 - 2012-04-02 11:30:28 UTC
I am a miner and each cycle takes 6 minutes in this time I go to pee or I'm forced to stand in front of the monitor? Do not agree to ban pirates, but I would like to propose an idea, if these murderers kill and run away like they love to be chased, why not chase them down to their bases in low security, not for just fifteen minutes, but also for a whole day.
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-04-02 12:21:00 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
The way this is written, is now against the rules to warp from gate to gate in high-sec with a Sec Status of -10, since that is running from CONCORD.


Erm, Thats not concord, thats the Faction Police


Ah, thank you. I'm just a 0.0 scrub, and so obviously am a prime target for someone abusing CrimeWatch to gank the daylights out of me. I'd probably still fall for can-baiting if the paranoid side of me didn't speak up first.

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#152 - 2012-04-02 12:31:17 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
TBH, Concord should be a player profession where the cop-players fly the concord ships and they get to chase us baddies.Pirate

WHOOP WHOOP! SPACE POLICE!


Nah it would just be full of bears getting blown up. BAM! Big smile

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
#153 - 2012-04-02 17:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoloft Rx
Zoloft Rx wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Zoloft Rx wrote:
GM Homonoia wrote:

2. OR you can set up the rules so strictly and in such a limiting manner that emergent behavior and any form of innovation becomes completely impossible. We could easily fix this by simply making it impossible to attack anyone in high sec ever, no exceptions.This is a situation no one wants.



Instead of making up crazy rules and constantly enforcing them, just fix the game mechanic.

EX. Once you get GCC for the illegal crime, you cant warp.. Seems like a simple fix to me.

For the role player: system-wide CONCORD warp jammer or something.


But it would also limit legitimate gameplay far more than is necessary to address the issue. Very blunt tool to fix one small loophole. A bad fix.


can you give an example of legitimate gamplay and "gcc from an illegal act"?

EDIT: oh youre talking about hiding your salvage in a safespot,.. cheap.

EDIT: in fact, my fix addresses 3 issues.
1.) The warp away exploit.
2.) More risk when ganking. When you suicide gank, other people have the chance to loot you. (no more hiding your wreck from others looters)
3.) CCP can use their GMs to do more meaningful things.


Quote:
Miscellaneous

Pilots with a Global Criminal Countdown in high security space will be prevented from warping (if they are in any ship other than a capsule). This is to prevent a tactic declared to be an exploit recently.


Looks like this idea got implemented.. Cool
Minta Contha
Emergent Entity
#154 - 2012-04-02 18:14:19 UTC
If avoiding Concord retaliation is considered to be a exploit rather than a game mechanic, why not just make it impossible to avoid Concord? Or is that too logical?

My cooking is like my lovemaking - fast, greasy, and unsatisfying.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#155 - 2012-04-02 18:28:36 UTC
it is going to be impossible to warp off once you are flagged as GCC

Herr Wilkus got this change because he loves to post about stuff

nice one Herr, you now got more stuff to moan about

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Callic Veratar
#156 - 2012-04-02 19:15:23 UTC
I find the rationalization of some in this thread to be amazing.

It started as "evading concord is an exploit" and "we follow the spirit of the law".

This followed with the argument of "warping away from the ganked ship to evade concord" is not evading concord because you can be caught eventually.

So, the clarification of "warping off the grid is evading concord". So, ignoring the spirit of the law, "I can warp ON grid to evade concord" because I'm not evading concord.

Which was changed to "warping anywhere with a GCC is evading concord". Which you're now upset about because the game is getting too soft.

The side effect is that you've managed to get warping with a GCC patched into the game because you were unwilling to follow the spirit of the law.

Yes, this game is a sandbox. That doesn't mean you're allowed to take a crap in it.
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#157 - 2012-04-02 20:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lauren Hellfury
burp

basically I agree with the above and for some reason the post I was attempting to make causes a "we were ganked" message. Regardless of which thread I attempt to post it in.

That means that the post which was basically saying CCP were heading the right way is now a CCP is crap post.

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
Udonor
Doomheim
#158 - 2012-04-02 21:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
IDK but something about this seems LAME.

I mean I appreciate that CCP recognizes that there is a problem with gankers being able to commit multiple violations and receive a single punishment.

But in RL shooting sprees and diversions of cops to alternate site does happen. In RL crooks are "allowed" to try to get away.

This response is not in the EVE spirit of crime exists but you will be pursued vigorously.
Its just one step short of issuing high sec immunity to ganking without wardec.

LOL - sounds to me like a CCP VIP was victim of this "exploit" and issued a quick fix deadline out of anger.

---- ALTERNATIVES -----

#1 Open up negative security beyond -10 if additional acts occur while GCC is effect. Not likely that anyone will get below -10 without really trying and knowing what they are doing. Then throw in some game play NEW penalties for greater negative security beyond harder to fix. (LOL - I have seen -10 disappear in 30 minutes due to some tags and lo sec ratting so that is of limited effectiveness if they are rich and skilled.)

#2 Open up high sec podding on those who achieve -11 or lower. Heck have CONCORD pod idiots who get -11 or below.
Stations and gate guns start shooting faster.

#3 Have CONCORD or factional navy guard the wrecks of victims against looting by anyone outside their corp.

#4 Extend GCC time and/or add CONCORD punishments attacks for each additional kill (only frigate or larger counts).

#5 Add up the number of hull sizes killed (1- frigate, 2-destroyer, 3- cruiser/barge 4-BC/exhumer) and set that as CONCORD blood price to be paid before GCC ends.

#6 make kill rights tag into a marketable/contract commodity (you could still sell these to your alt)

#7 fix the bounty system -- contributors must give approval to bounty hunter prior to hunt to pay out their share of total bounty
(best practical guard against violators collecting bounty with an alt or via known associates)
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#159 - 2012-04-04 00:33:24 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

Nope, not saying I'm a carebear either. I'm better than that. I'm a ganker.

Miners have a very tiny chance of being ganked on any given day, have the option of tanking - and get guaranteed profits.
I take a guaranteed loss, can easily be podded - am not guaranteed a kill, let alone a profit.
My only reward is tears and creating a trail of dead miners.

So, your carebear slur simply falls flat. Please try again!


Ok, ok, griefer then. I don't really care.
Justice Comes
Doomheim
#160 - 2012-04-17 18:28:06 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Yes, this game is a sandbox. That doesn't mean you're allowed to take a crap in it.


When you gotta go, you gotta go?

Most annoying thing of the week: You failed to dock/jump because you are cloaked (in your Deep Space Transport).