EVE General Discussion

Tippia, you and many others here seem to be under the impression that Hulk pilots should automatically "know" how to protect themselves from ganks. Let me remind you that there is no "learning curve" for Hulk pilots like there is for almost every other aspect of this game -- PVErs spend their first few months climbing from doing L1 missions in frigates to L4 missions in battleships and learn their way up, losing ships occasionally, usually cheap ones, and adapting along the way; likewise PVPers usually start out in frigates, end up losing dozens but for 500k a piece who gives a ****. Hulks on the other hand will overwhelmingly have not a single shred of experience in dealing with protecting their ships from gankers (because who the **** ganks Retrievers and Covetors, and even if people did, there's literally no way to actually tank them anyway) and if held to the same standard, which you seem to support, should expect to lose billions of ISK on Hulks before they too finally "get it" and learn to adapt accordingly.

I can agree with this.

People now need to learn that we can only fix ourselves and maybe other players, but the ships when unbalanced can only be fixed by CCP.

I think there is a weakness in all mining ships and it is unnecessary (35PG for a 300m ISK hull is a joke), but it is not the gankers problem to care for it, nor should the miners complain about getting ganked.

Now I would like to talk about your face.

If they can't figure it out the first time they see or hear of a Hulk getting ganked, then they deserve to get ganked.

If they've managed to get into a Hulk without becoming aware of suicide-ganking, then clearly we need more suicide ganking.

Where are they supposed to hear or see it? Not everyone who plays this game is a forum-splerging neckbeard.



How exactly can they ask about something most of them probably don't even realize can happen the first time they get in a Hulk? Again -- in almost every other conceivable course of activity in this game there is a fairly reasonable learning curve that introduces players into a new activity in a way that promotes learning and adapting by exposing them to an understandable and intuitive difficulty curve. Brand-new Hulk pilots get nothing of the sort. The only thing they have to contend with as they work their way up are belt rats, can flippers and finding empty belts. Last I checked there is no warning popup message when they get into their very first Hulk informing them that they stand a good chance of meeting a fiery end at the hands of a destroyer. So short of miraculous foresight and spending the 6 months prior to even starting the game reading every guide, tutorial and wiki entry, how do you expect them to learn this other than losing a few hundred million ISK in Hulks?

As I've said every else has a reasonable learning curve allowing them to adapt to increasing difficulty without risk of serious financial loss. So I completely agree with you, they should learn just like everyone else.



From what I can tell the only person RL parallels are popular with is you.

FYP


lol

Please then, explain to me what sorts of personal experiences miners go through during the first three months of the game that will teach them how to fit Hulks to not be ganked?



Nope.



Lol wat



You're literally the only one bringing it up m8



It is a factor and claiming otherwise is literally ignorant.

Anyway, you've quite clearly got some very specific blinders on and judging by the couple sheep people I've seen with your quotes in their sigs, you're something of an outspoken person on this subject, though I've literally never heard of you before this thread and I'll likely forget your existence 5 minutes from now. Your arguments though are incredibly simplistic and quite obviously biased and you've yet to make a single credible argument or counter any I've made other than "hurp blurp let me tell u about realism m8" and some unfathomable notion that miners should be smarter than literally everyone else that plays this game and that it's their own fault if they aren't. Miners aren't smart. Almost everyone who plays this game is a complete ****** for their first 6 months at best. The difference is, everyone else is introduced to different aspects of gameplay with a comfortably stepped difficulty curve. PVEers learn about cap management and DPS and active tanking and rat aggro as each is introduced during early missions, and maybe they lose some frigates or destroyers or cruisers before they figure out right from wrong. PVPers learn about kiting and transversal, picking your fights and how Minmatar > everything and likewise lose some frigs and dessies and cruisers before they pick it up. Miners learn how to kill ****** belt frig rats with drones and how to avoid being canflipped, maybe losing a 50k Navitas or some Osprey or some ****, because nobody gives a **** about trying to gank Retrievers so the only time they actually face any exposure to any sort of learning curve or situation that forces them to adapt, they're sitting in their pod next to their 300mil Hulk wreck.

That you even claim miners have as accommodating a learning curve as PVErs and PVPers is pretty indicative of your actual agenda.

The tutorials. Local. Corp chat. N00b chat. Being in a belt. Researching the Hulk. Any EVE-related website. Having more than two brain-cells to rub together.

Then maybe you should stop assuming things about them and understand the context of your own argument, hmm?

“That a 10m ISK Catalyst can kill a 300m T2 cruiser-sized Exhumer is a bit daft, let's be realistic.” Recognise that? Cost and realism is the two constants in terms of fallacious arguments being brought up in favour of buffing the Hulk. You did it like everyone coming before you. If you didn't read up on the topic before posting (which would explain why you assume that miners are incapable of doing any kind of research on their chosen activity), then that's your problem, but it doesn't change the fact that it keeps coming up and it keeps being irrelevant, wrong or both.

Cost is not a factor in balance — they tried that once and immediately realised the error of their ways. Again, had you done your research, you would have known this already.

No, that's your argument — it's called a strawman argument, and it's a fallacy. My argument is that they are as smart as everyone else and therefore have no problems learning about these things through all the usual means, just like everyone else, especially given that they have a couple of months to do so. If you haven't seen the counter arguments, then you haven't been paying attention, but again, that seems to be what you do most (along with assuming that everyone does the same… which they don't).

Counter #1: a Hulk can already protect themselves against a Catalyst.
Counter #2: Crimewatch 2.0 will not change the risks in ganking because it'll still be trivial to get away with it.
Counter #3: miners are not idiots, no matter how much you'd prefer that they were.
Counter #4: miners have access to the same resources as everyone else, and can therefore learn about ganks the same as everyone else.

Could you please actually address the arguments being made rather than resorting to an avalanche of fallacies?

Of course the difference is that Deepwater Horizon cost $500mil, whereas a modern destroyer cost $500-2billion aswell.

/popcorn