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Why isn't Eve more successful?
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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#81 - 2012-04-17 13:45:24 UTC
Ordais wrote:
Simple answer:

BECAUSE YOU CAN LOSE.

Yep, its that simple. In other MMOs you are always the hero, EvE doesn't work that way.


A great many really good answers in this thread, but this is the best IMO.

Other games let the player always be the hero, they are causual, easy to get into, easy "sign posts of success" (levels, gear ect), and in most games you never lose anything, and it's impossible to get "lost" (I've been so lost in eve I had to use dotlan to figure out where I wa slol)

The majority of players in EVE are the casual sort too, but a lot less than theme-park MMO players. but very very VERY few HARD CORE gamers are as hard core (and heartless) as EVE's serious players.

Back in the day when I played Mechwarrior, I wondered why such an incredible game, backed up by the incredible Battletech Universe, was less popular that point and shoot twitch games. People just like easy/simple, that's all.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#82 - 2012-04-17 13:46:36 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
[quote=Matrix Operator]

Eve will be here in 2027... I wonder what our anniversary gift will be that year :)


Free trip to Fan Fest on the moon, where some goon will get banned for insulting gay martians or something....
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#83 - 2012-04-17 13:47:28 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:

Eve will be here in 2027... I wonder what our anniversary gift will be that year :)



As long as they focus on the Niche, this will indeed be true.

As long as CCP is aware they will never have WoW numbers, this is entirely possible.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Vain Eldritch
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-04-17 13:47:50 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:


Eve will be here in 2027... I wonder what our anniversary gift will be that year :)


Indeed - I dare say Eve is the only MMORPG on the market right now that can say this is even a remote possibility and this is one reason why I play. I crave Eve Forever.

Androgynous Caldari Cross-dresser
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#85 - 2012-04-17 13:48:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
[quote=Matrix Operator]

Eve will be here in 2027... I wonder what our anniversary gift will be that year :)


Free trip to Fan Fest on the moon, where some goon will get banned for insulting gay martians or something....



We could really do without the Gay Martian Idiocy here.........Roll

Signed - - - Gay As A Goose

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2012-04-17 13:53:28 UTC
EVE is successful. Can't deny that. How many games have a yearly party showing off everything new and upcoming? What the OP is saying is why isn't EVE "MORE" successful than it is considering games like Star Trek Online and Star Wars get millions of subs?

I think the answer lies in the difficulty of EVE. It is a major pain in the ass to play. That's why I play it. The challenge. Most people want an easly laid back game they can play with thier kids. EVE does not fullfill this role for most people.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Elena Melkan
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#87 - 2012-04-17 13:54:39 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Here goes...this is for me personally, by the way.

1. Slow training/leveling speed. Yes, I realize this is a slow paced game, and you set long term goals and blah blah blah. But in a nutshell what it means is that it will take most people months before they can start having any fun/making serious ISK. Yes, yes, I know, you can PvP on day one and all that bull. Create a new character with 500 SP, put him in a frigate and go PvP against someone with 40 mil SP in a well-fitted AF and let me know how that goes for ya...

...

Very good points made, the first one especially. I tend to browse through various gaming websites & forums, and often when EVE online is mentioned, people add comments like: "skill system in EVE is ********".

There are plenty of people who can't stand the fact that they can't be super-über pro's after a month of playing. In most of MMO's, you are able to grind yourself up to end levels moderately fast and after that start raiding dungeons/instances for equipment that makes your character stronger. With a small amount of time, your character can be nearly as strong as those who have played the game for years. In EVE it's not that easy. And there is always the cruel, hard fact that reminds itself whenever you see a 2005-character: there are people that have more SP than you, because they have played longer time. For many people, the fact that they cannot match in skills and epic stuff with those players that have used years to build their characters and their wallet, might be overwhelming. They want to be the best and the current skill system prevents it, at least partially.

I find it a good thing that this kind of people stay out of EVE though.
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#88 - 2012-04-17 13:57:25 UTC
Just read the forums and you'll know why this game is small and likely to get smaller. The game is designed to encourage theft, betrayal, player scamming, abuse of new players, and outright bullying. This is called a "sandbox" by the people who like it. In other words, forget any idea of decency or community in this game. The fan community showed that at Fanfest this year. I've never tried the other MMOs, this was my first. I loved it for a lot of reasons for a long time. But the last year has been nothing but misery in this game, and I get enough of that in real life. I'm probably going to move on to the Elves very soon.

What's wrong with expecting a game to give you a quick payoff and an easier learning curve than this one? Playing a game should not be a life commitment. It should be a game.
Terazul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-04-17 14:01:02 UTC
I think the game would see majorly improved numbers if they did just two things:

1. Release the new shield/armor/hull hit and damage effects, and
2. Revise the PvE system entirely to be more engaging and more like PvP.

Why? It's very simple and very obvious - PvE is a major point of player contention. MANY players quit simply because it's too dull, too cumbersome, too repetitive - fix that problem, and they are going to be much more likely to stay. By the same token, many players who cut their teeth in PvE are simply not prepared for PvP, simply because the tactics and fitting required for both are completely different - fix that, and PvE becomes a much better gateway to the rest of the game.

I also think the war dec system is kind of broken (hence npc corps all the time, every time), and that the proposed 'fixes' aren't really fixes at all, but that's not as big an issue as the first two...
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-04-17 14:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ris Dnalor
Ban Bindy wrote:
Just read the forums and you'll know why this game is small and likely to get smaller.



it hasn't gotten smaller yet, for 9 years...


Quote:
The game is designed to encourage theft, betrayal, player scamming, abuse of new players, and outright bullying. This is called a "sandbox" by the people who like it. In other words, forget any idea of decency or community in this game. The fan community showed that at Fanfest this year. I've never tried the other MMOs, this was my first. I loved it for a lot of reasons for a long time. But the last year has been nothing but misery in this game, and I get enough of that in real life. I'm probably going to move on to the Elves very soon.



people aren't decent.
( I mean, they can be, when everyone has plenty of food, shelter, and other resources, but decency isn't a hardwired trait that never goes away no matter how hard things get Shocked )

we don't crave 'shiny happy people holding hands'
( exception: liberal application of large quantities of drugs, alcohol, and/or sex can sometimes temporarily induce this craving -- EDIT: or, so I've heard... )

We're animals. We do what we need to in order to survive. Society constrains our impulses and darker desires, but they still exist, regardless of how much we oppress them.

Eve provides an outlet for these things. It doesn't 'encourage scamming, etc'. It simply does not discourage it. people taking advantage of other people requires no encouragement.


These things want out :) Eve is a place where you can let your darker side come out to play, therefore eve shall continue to see great success, so long as this holds true. The events at fanfest only highlight this, and, if anything, should increase growth momentarily -- not disrupt it.






Quote:
What's wrong with expecting a game to give you a quick payoff and an easier learning curve than this one? Playing a game should not be a life commitment. It should be a game.


Nothing is wrong with it. But there's plenty of games that do that. Go find one, or if you want, work a little harder to enjoy eve. you have a choice. make it.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-04-17 14:09:01 UTC
You guys are all assholes and should feel bad. If you werent we would have more players. GG noobs.

I have more space likes than you. 
Fowler
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-04-17 14:16:07 UTC
Matrix Operator wrote:


So the fact that so much of the travel is restricted around the bottlenecks full of gankers/griefers.

Question is, then, without gate and station camping, then what would low sec and 0.0 pvp be then?


What would it be?
Quite simply, It wouldn't be EVE.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-04-17 14:18:24 UTC
easy - Eve is one of the hardest MMO out there
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#94 - 2012-04-17 14:23:09 UTC
Ordais wrote:
Simple answer:

BECAUSE YOU CAN LOSE.

Yep, its that simple. In other MMOs you are always the hero, EvE doesn't work that way.
Pretty much. EVE attracts the kinds of players who enjoy overcoming adversity and loss, rather than the players who only enjoy accumulating their rewards.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#95 - 2012-04-17 14:39:29 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
Just read the forums and you'll know why this game is small and likely to get smaller. The game is designed to encourage theft, betrayal, player scamming, abuse of new players, and outright bullying. This is called a "sandbox" by the people who like it. In other words, forget any idea of decency or community in this game....


I guess I've been playing EVE totally wrong all these years. I've never scammed or robbed anyone, never been scammed or robbed, and made a number of good friends through the game.

Perhaps you can help me out? Where am I going wrong?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#96 - 2012-04-17 14:43:40 UTC
Minta Contha wrote:
In my first couple of weeks playing Eve I heard a quote along the lines of, "WoW gives you a cookie and holds your hand for the first forty levels. Eve not only takes away your cookie on day one, but laughs at you for having it in the first place."
In a nutshell - people don't like to lose. And the majority of people, when they lose a hard earned spaceship in the first couple of weeks playing Eve, will view it as a disproportionately major loss, and turn their back on the game as unrewarding. Thos of us who sucked it up and kept grafting to build up our fleets and hangars and skills realise that losing one ship is nothing really - but admit it, when you lost your first ship, you were gutted. And for a moment, Eve was no longer fun. There the choice lay before you - quit this stupid, difficult game or keep going to see if you could rise again.
And that's why we don't have more capsuleers.


I never got that 'gutted' feeling really, I realised that it was part of the game and probably my mistake that led to me losing it, so I just got on with playing the game and didn't really let it bother me that much.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Shukuzen Kiraa
Wildlands Tactical Response Unit
Out of the Blue.
#97 - 2012-04-17 14:47:02 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Because the masses a) want instant gratification and b) are creatively inept and incapable of building sandcastles.


There really is no better way to say it than this^^
Sir John Halsey
#98 - 2012-04-17 14:48:52 UTC
In terms of usability, eve client is probably one of the worst games i played.
For me this was a big let down. Eye candy if i don't use the tactical view... Nice graphics ... but usability 0.

Other than that, seems fine.
Well if i ignore all the sociopaths in the forums.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#99 - 2012-04-17 14:49:08 UTC
I consider EVE a hobby.

Not a game.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2012-04-17 14:53:34 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
Just read the forums and you'll know why this game is small and likely to get smaller. The game is designed to encourage theft, betrayal, player scamming, abuse of new players, and outright bullying. This is called a "sandbox" by the people who like it. In other words, forget any idea of decency or community in this game.
…and yet, it has been growing and only keeps on growing. It also pretty consistently wins rewards for having the best community.

Of course, there are always those who have a hard time separating the game from real life, and who call people “sociopaths” for playing the game according to its rules (kind of like calling people sociopaths for building hotels in Monopoly), and it's not so strange that those people also can't separate the gameplay conceit and the community that enjoys that kind of gaming environment.