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Allow implants to be unplugged.
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Josef Stylin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-04-17 10:43:41 UTC
This is a terrible thread and you're a terrible poster who seems unable to elaborate his ideas beyond throwing a tantrum.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-04-17 10:58:46 UTC
Implants are fine as is, except for a one time ability to pull slots 1-5 out would of been nice. After the implant to killmail change, I swaped out clones and across two characters I just have no use for several clones which are too expensive to fly now but too painful to destroy and you can only have a max of 5 leaving me short extra clones Ugh
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
#43 - 2012-04-17 11:15:35 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Implants are awesome. I love implants. But I don't appreciate the fact that the only way to get out of my implants is to burn a 24 hour jump clone timer. That said, I don't think reducing JC cooldown is a good idea (after all, it allows people to shortcut across the galaxy-- we don't want this turning into WoW, where you can teleport around the world at-will all the time). The alternative is to give us a way to step out of our implants.

Here's the basic problem: things that entomb characters in expensive stuff are un-fun. Say I'm me, a 73m SP character who spends a good deal of time flying fancy spaceships. I install a set of LG snakes and some hardwirings for flying my fancy spaceships. This owns because now I go real fast and shoot real good.

Now suppose that I'm bored and I see a broadcast about someone doing a rifter roam! I want to go on the rifter roam, but I don't really want to fly around in a Rifter with a billion isk worth of implants in my head (the same goes for the ridiculous clone costs for high-sp dudes, but that's another matter). Suddenly my choices are either to burn a jump clone timer (and if you're using JCs right, that means ending up on the other side of EVE, then flying all the way back to your rifter gang, assuming your other clone doesn't have fancy implants as well), to not go on the op, or to deal with the very high probability of burning a billion isk on a gimmick op.

This is dumb as hell.

Pilots should be able to unplug implants. There's just no reason not to allow this. It's not like doing so would allow people to use implants risk-free-- either you use them and get the benefits, or you take them out and lose the benefits. If would also allow people to swap implants and hardwirings around based on what they feel like flying, which is important given that lots of hardwirings have very specific applications. You can't even argue that allowing this would reduce spending on implants-- first of all, as previously mentioned, you buy implants to get benefits from them. You're always going to want to fly with them plugged in most of the time, otherwise the implants go to waste. Seondly, if people could swap implants around, they're much more likely to buy more implants. Right now, for example, I have a LG snake set, and some gun / navigation hardwirings. If I could swap implants around, I would definitely buy hardwirings for more types of gun at the very least (so I could use whichever hardwirings compliment the ship I select), and I might even buy a set of Halos or Slaves or Nomads as well.

Also, I could go on Rifter ops.

Please allow us to unplug implants. It's a pro-fun change, and it doesn't really have any downsides.

Aww, poor goon doesn't want to lose his expensive implants, while his alliance talks about invading Jita and suiciding everything in sight. How about you HTFU pubbie.

SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-04-17 11:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kusum Fawn
Josef Stylin wrote:
This is a terrible thread and you're a terrible poster who seems unable to elaborate his ideas beyond throwing a tantrum.


its a goon, whatd you expect?

I wrote:
you can always go on that roam btw, part of the cost of those implants, is you gotta wear them till you jumpclone. its their balance, their drawback, like rigs.


Ganthrithor wrote:
What I'd like to be able to do is choose when I do and do not want to use the implants. Sometimes you don't want or need to use any implants. Sometimes you'd prefer to use another set of implants rather than the set you have in (such as switching from Slaves to Snakes, or Snakes to Halos, or Virtues, or Centurions, or whatever). In both cases, the game refuses to let you.
....
This means that if I want to jump into an implant clone from a basic clone, I'm stuck in that for 24 hours. If I go from an implant clone to a basic clone, I'm stuck in that for 24 hours. Either of these scenarios can be seriously disruptive to my gameplay.
...
Any time you want to fly with the benefits of implants, you must have them installed, and thus must risk them in combat. The issue has nothing to do with risk vs reward and everything to do with ****** gameplay mechanics that entomb you in a particular configuration for no particular reason (in this case, it *is* for a particular reason-- to prevent rapid travel around EVE using JCs-- but one that's completely unrelated to risk vs reward concerning implant use).


Hes trying to make it sound like he has to use those implants, that the game has forced him to implant a billion or so into his head. and that its jump clones entombing him in a particular implant set for 24 hours that really cause problems.

part of that risk vs reward is having the installed all the time in that clone body till you die in it or take them out. kinda like
I wrote:
you can always go on that roam btw, part of the cost of those implants, is you gotta wear them till you jumpclone. its their balance, their drawback, like rigs.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#45 - 2012-04-17 11:50:50 UTC
all for the idea of removable implants.. however they need to be perishable. because to be honest having the same "slave" set for 3 years would be counter productive to further sales.

in exchange for pulling an implant out of your head it takes damage

default 50%.

as skills like this...

SKILL: cybernetic re-configuration

allows the user to remove an implants from his/her head
penalty: implant takes base damage 50%, may not add new implant to that slot for 12 hours
req: cybernetics 1
rank: 4

SKILL: cybernetic maintenance
reduces the damage an implant takes upon removal by 7.5% per level
req: cybernetics 4
rank: 6

skill: cybernetic re-programming
5% reduction in time between the removal and installation of new implants in to any given slot per level (at L5 the wait will be 6 hours)
req: cybernetics 4
rank: 6


killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-04-17 12:15:23 UTC
op is an idiot who doesn't seem to grasp the essence of eve and probably never will

here is your dummy back

:)
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#47 - 2012-04-17 17:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Ganthrithor wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Do you not understand that the ONLY penalty of using implants have is you have to risk losing them until your next JC becomes available???? And you want to take this away because it inconveniences you to have expensive implants when your buddies take out a high-risk-of-getting-podded gang??? Really???


Yes. This is precisely what I am saying. Why don't you put in some more question marks for further emphasis.

If you want to maintain the personal-isk-sink aspect of implants, make it so they can't be re-sold once plugged in? There's no need to keep them IN YOUR HEAD the whole time though.

...and don't say "but then you'll lose them on rifter ops and have to replace them!" because no, I will not go slosh-opping in my snakes.


To play devil's advocate, lets look at the pro's of unpluggable implants:

1.) Implants would see ubiquitous use... If you can unplug them so easily, who wouldn't keep a set of +5's to plug in at the end of the night? I would imagine the implant market would skyrocket, as prepping for a gang would always include plugging in the appropriate implants too.... Given implants are primarily from LP stores, this would probably create an isk sink.

2.) This broadens the gap between rich players and poor players.... At the moment, when the two pilots both get into the same ship, the only major difference comes from sp. Assuming both players are beyond the competence threshhold, more sp produces only a little extra benefit.. However, with these changes, I'm certain the poorer player will be flying with less blingy implants... I honestly can't decide if this is a pro or con though.... Given the 1/2/3/4/5/6% varieties, people can still fly what they can afford....

3.) If implants are unpluggable, then the only reason for jump clones is to insta-travel across the galaxy... **** that, this is a flying in space game, we can straight up remove JC's alltogether!!!! Besides, people can pod-hop across the universe, which has the associated clone upgrade cost and the necessity of corp offices (ie: more isk sinks!!). Frankly, I see no good reason for JC's if you make implants removeable...

Note: CCP would need to spend some time making sure implants were more balanced, as they currently are NOT quite there: For example, slaves are really out of line with the other pirate implant sets, and need to be moved to an Armor Rep bonus rather than an Armor HP bonus...

I guess it's not all bad.... but I'm not sold yet....
Cristl
#48 - 2012-04-17 18:33:00 UTC
Terrible OP. Implants are traditionally the most 'permanent' modifications to your avatar. (cf. rigs, modules and scripts/ammo. in descending order of permanence).

Your system fails to address the balance between risk-reward (eve trademark) choices of:

+ enhanced carebear mode, with extra risky PvP, (more risk, more reward)

+ regular carebear mode, no extra cost PvP (less risk, less reward)

What would prevent people in your scheme using their crystal sets etc. to 'pwn' seraphims or whatever, and then shake their implants out of their head on sighting an enemy Vagabond in their neighbourhood? Nothing, right? And you know that the infomorph skill is trainable right? You can have an empire clone, a PvE superhuman clone and 3 spare combat clones in other locations with very little bother. If your alliance owns so much space then maybe ask your corp medic for a repeat prescription for 15mg of sukitup daily.

I do think jumpclones could have a duration of maybe 20 hours, which could help a lot without introducing serious cross-empire 'dog-piles', and medical clone costs (which are not realistically avoidable) are due for a reassessment downwards in cost for sure.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-04-17 18:40:41 UTC
I like how this thread has turned into a shitstorm of highsec publords calling me a pubbie and accusing me of wanting this feature so I can use better PvE implants with no risk.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-04-17 18:42:33 UTC
You totally nailed, me, I'm an inexperienced and risk-averse player. All I want to do is use my crystal implants to run empire missions without losing them.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-04-17 18:46:41 UTC
Josef Stylin wrote:
This is a terrible thread and you're a terrible poster who seems unable to elaborate his ideas beyond throwing a tantrum.


You're a terrible reader, I've explained the problem several times in fairly clear and concise posts!
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-04-17 19:54:27 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
YOU MAY NOT HAVE SPONTANEOUS FUN IN EVE ONLINE. IT IS YOUR PUNISHMENT FOR BUYING NICE THINGS.

Confirming that frigates do not benefit from a set of high grade snakes.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#53 - 2012-04-17 20:29:32 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
I like how this thread has turned into a shitstorm of highsec publords calling me a pubbie and accusing me of wanting this feature so I can use better PvE implants with no risk.


Not at all.... We're calling you a whiny nullbear that thinks the inconveniences of protecting blingy implants is too much to handle, and you want said inconveniences removed so you can have your cake and eat it too....

Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-04-17 22:36:01 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
I like how this thread has turned into a shitstorm of highsec publords calling me a pubbie and accusing me of wanting this feature so I can use better PvE implants with no risk.


Not at all.... We're calling you a whiny nullbear that thinks the inconveniences of protecting blingy implants is too much to handle, and you want said inconveniences removed so you can have your cake and eat it too....



Your argument that I *only* want a way to remove implants so I don't have to risk them (which is part, but not all of my argument) totally ignores the fact that there's also no way to change between implants without trashing them (rather than "out" of them).

Example: I have snakes and large projectile hardwirings in. I want to fly with snakes and medium hybrid hardwirings in. No way to achieve this without buying a second snake clone with the different hardwirings OR repeatedly trashing hardwirings every time you want to swap.

I just don't get where the resistance to this idea is coming from. You all act like I want CCP to change the game so that only I personally can violate risk-reward principles, or something. It's not like you wouldn't be able to do the exact same things with your characters (unless, that is, you're too poor to afford things like nice implants, which I can only assume is where all this anger is coming from. "PUNISH THE RICHIES FOR HAVING NICE THINGS. WANT TO USE IMPLANTS? DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!").

Would this allow people to "plug in +5s overnight, then pull them out in the morning"? Yeah. Would I do this personally? No-- it's a bunch of extra button clicking every time I go to log off (stop training queue, unplug a bunch of implants, re-plug a bunch of implants, un-pause queue) and way more effort than it would be worth (I have 73m skillpoints, it's not like I'm in a rush to train anything). Do I care whether or not other people would do this? Not in the slightest. If they want to go through a twice-daily clickfest and invest in multiple sets of learning implants to train marginally faster, more power to them.

Why are you guys so opposed to this idea? You keep spouting things about "benefits without risk" when in reality you have to fly with implants in to receive their benefits. Do I want benefits with less nonsensical inconvenience? Yes. Your response is to yell that "being able to to swap implants around would ruin the game because then PEOPLE WOULD USE THEM MORE." Really? Really really?

I propose that CCP put a 24 hour cooldown on changing ships. After all, being able to swap between ships whenever you want encourages people to use expensive hulls way more often than they would if they were stuck in them for a day at a time. This would also discourage people from using cheap hulls, because then they'd have to spend a whole day being useless. I think this is a good change and will encourage people to spend more time playing EVE Online. What do you think?
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-04-17 23:06:32 UTC
I understand where the OP is coming from. Should you be opposed to limiting it to hardwirings (slot 6-10) that are allowed to be removed?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#56 - 2012-04-17 23:18:54 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
I like how this thread has turned into a shitstorm of highsec publords calling me a pubbie and accusing me of wanting this feature so I can use better PvE implants with no risk.


Not at all.... We're calling you a whiny nullbear that thinks the inconveniences of protecting blingy implants is too much to handle, and you want said inconveniences removed so you can have your cake and eat it too....



Your argument that I *only* want a way to remove implants so I don't have to risk them (which is part, but not all of my argument) totally ignores the fact that there's also no way to change between implants without trashing them (rather than "out" of them).

Example: I have snakes and large projectile hardwirings in. I want to fly with snakes and medium hybrid hardwirings in. No way to achieve this without buying a second snake clone with the different hardwirings OR repeatedly trashing hardwirings every time you want to swap.

I just don't get where the resistance to this idea is coming from. You all act like I want CCP to change the game so that only I personally can violate risk-reward principles, or something. It's not like you wouldn't be able to do the exact same things with your characters (unless, that is, you're too poor to afford things like nice implants, which I can only assume is where all this anger is coming from. "PUNISH THE RICHIES FOR HAVING NICE THINGS. WANT TO USE IMPLANTS? DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!").

Would this allow people to "plug in +5s overnight, then pull them out in the morning"? Yeah. Would I do this personally? No-- it's a bunch of extra button clicking every time I go to log off (stop training queue, unplug a bunch of implants, re-plug a bunch of implants, un-pause queue) and way more effort than it would be worth (I have 73m skillpoints, it's not like I'm in a rush to train anything). Do I care whether or not other people would do this? Not in the slightest. If they want to go through a twice-daily clickfest and invest in multiple sets of learning implants to train marginally faster, more power to them.

Why are you guys so opposed to this idea? You keep spouting things about "benefits without risk" when in reality you have to fly with implants in to receive their benefits. Do I want benefits with less nonsensical inconvenience? Yes. Your response is to yell that "being able to to swap implants around would ruin the game because then PEOPLE WOULD USE THEM MORE." Really? Really really?

I propose that CCP put a 24 hour cooldown on changing ships. After all, being able to swap between ships whenever you want encourages people to use expensive hulls way more often than they would if they were stuck in them for a day at a time. This would also discourage people from using cheap hulls, because then they'd have to spend a whole day being useless. I think this is a good change and will encourage people to spend more time playing EVE Online. What do you think?


On many levels, I want to agree with you.... Taking implants in and out will allow you to augment your ship fits with your clone fits... It will provide a lot more implant-fitting combos that aren't widely used due to the inconvenience of implants. However, I think there Needs to be a review of implants before this change..... Something along the lines of, give them drawbacks... At the very least, they need a thorough balancing review. I also think this would make Jump Clones obsolete, and that they should be removed from the game....
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#57 - 2012-05-19 20:11:30 UTC

I've been reconsidering this... and i think allowing implants to be unplugged could go well with a change to POD alignment time. If you increase the POD alignment time to 4s base (~2.5s w/ skillz), you would leave implants much more vulnerable to frigates.

This would increase the risk of getting podded enough that losing implants is a more viable risk. It could also significantly hinder the lives of outlaws, such that traveling around in highsec is risky.

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