Missions & Complexes

I hear if you hit the F5 key enough, posts will automatically be generated for you.

An economy needs currency injected in a 1:1 proportion to the value of the goods injected.
If you had 1tb of goods injected every day, and only 200b of currency, you'd see deflation.
The balance is more or less right, at the moment.

Am I mad? no, but you appear to be. And as I pointed out, if you are that violently opposed to them, there is something that YOU can do about it. Also, don't forget that for every 100mil isk/hour fleet, there are probably 2-3 fleets that don't even hit the 50mil isk/hour mark, either due to competition, poor organization, etc. So, just as there are people who make 200mil isk/hour running lvl 4's, there are people making 200mil isk/hour running incursions. And just as where a vast majority of mission runners are lucky to make 50mil isk/hour running lvl 4's, the vast majority of incursion runners are lucky to make 50mil isk/hour running incursions. The only difference is that since it isn't dependent solely one 1 character, more people occasionally get to make 100mil/hour when they wouldn't normally be able to do that on their own.

-Arazel

And no way for them to find you, So what is the matter? Probes are not cloaked.

they dont need probe to find u when ur running sites.

C3 only yield about 100~150m per hr while the risk is being ganked.

as for higher class wh, you need to go in group, which means spliting the profit

My twopence worth:

I've lived in a C2 with C3 static for almost two years. I've made great isk from the C3, mainly using a T2-fitted Legion to solo the anoms with a maxed-skilled armor gang booster in system pinging with a deep space probe, which IMHO is the lowest-risk setup I can achieve (previously I've lost two faction-fitted boats to gankers). How this pans out in practical terms over a day's play of 5-6 hours is that if I have earned 400m, it's been a very "good isk" day. On a bad isk day, that may be nill. Hostiles, logistics etc. may simply be the order of the day. However, that all adds to variety as well so I never begrudge it.


So - yesterday I was finally persuaded by one of my w-space dwelling corp mates to try some incursions. I have Logi 5 and pretty much maxed associated skills, but I've never sat in a logistics hull before. He told me which channel to open and what logi to fit up. Barely 40 mins after jumping out of our C2 in a shuttle, I'd bought a Guardian, fitted it (total 300mill) and was sitting in an Incursion constellation posting my availability. I was snapped up in less than 20 seconds by a 10-man Legion/Guardian gang.

That was at 00:51 Eve time.

By 01:51 Eve time we had run 11 Vanguard sites and I'd earned just under 110mill and 13,000LP. I thought I was lucky - The FC was good and we were pretty much aligning-to-next as we completed the ongrid site. However, I'm told that there are a lot of good FC's, they're always in want of high-skilled logi pilots, and the isk/hr ratio I'd just achieved (as a complete noob) was a bit sub-par.

I could not believe what a piece of cake these Vanguard sites are. Compared to C3 farming, it's a child's game. Vanguards are absolutely pillaged by a T3 gang, and now that there are more & more Mach gangs coming in, it's apparently possible to complete a vanguard site in 4 minutes. No scanning down, no checking of exits for activity, no probing, no dscan-spamming, and no salvaging. All the grind was done for me. All I had to do was warp, activage gate, targets fleet members, transfer cap to other logis and cycle my rr. Rinse and repeat. None of the dps ships ever lost more than 15% armor. It was that easy, it actually got boring after 4 sites. The interest was maintained by the fact that I was fleeted with a bunch of guys I didn't know from Adam, so the chat was interesting.

Half the time I was in this fleet, were were desperately running for new spawns, racing to get there before the other two fleets in system. The competition is fun - but it's there because this has become, pure and simple, the fastest easiest way to make isk in Eve. And it IS safe. DC's etc are a threat whatever you're doing, but they are rare and easily managed. The corpmate who'd suggested I try Incursions actually had a Guardian ganked a couple of weeks ago. The FC paid him 390mill for his loss.

The single drawback is that when you commit to an Incursion gang, you really need to put in at least a good hour of nonstop focus as a minimum. Running Vanguards in particular means no bio-breaks or distractions. It's all go-go-go in order to maintain that precious 100m+ isk/hr. The way incursions are set up, a fleet needs to maintain exact numbers or it starts losing money. You can't just safe up & cloak or warp back to POS to have lunch or go pick up the kids 20 minutes after you've started. From my impression, the Incursion guys (particularly the FC's) are a close-knit bunch. You're pretty soon labelled as capable & reliable - or not.

From my point of view, after just one session of exposure, I'll now be keeping an alt in highsec to run Incursions, but keep my main in w-space because the s**ts and giggles are more frequent there.

I've no doubt there are a lot more wormholers planning the exact same thing.

Do Incursions need nerfing? Absolutely. But please don't :D

Lots of people calling for Incursions to be nerfed here, so I think I'll throw my 2 cents in.

On the whole, I think they're pretty well-balanced as it is.

Yes, they can make you rich in highsec, but look at some of what makes incursions different from other forms of h/s (or even sov space) income:

-You actually work as a team. It's fun, rewarding, group PVE. This is good.

-It's not really as risk-free as people suggest. A badly timed logi disconnect can cost you a faction BS. Suicide ganking ECM Blackbirds can screw up the whole operation.

-While isk/hr with a "good fleet" can roll above the 100mil mark, "good fleets" aren't that common. I've only been in two fleets which actually achieve this, your typical fleet makes 50-65mil an hour, not including the time it takes to find said fleet, or deal with replacements.

Now, there is one thing that needs to be changed up a bit:

-Vanguards. They require half as many people as Assaults, but can a decent VG fleet can make just as much isk/hr (or more) as a decent AS fleet. As a result, 90% of people only run Vanguards, as it requires less collaboration and :effort:. I would be in support of cutting down the payouts on Vanguards by 20-30% and increasing the payout on assaults by 10-20%. I can't speak for HQ/Mom sites, as I've only been in one, but the Vanguard/Assault comparison is pretty unbalanced atm.

Edit: This is embarrassing, I just massively necro'ed this thread.