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Is it just the kestrel and caracal or all caldari ships?
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Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-04-17 05:09:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
On my original account I was almost exclusively a gallente and minmatar pilot. Mostly gallente. I also only have any significant experience with armor tanking. I wanted to try something different and the fanfest video made missiles look awesome so I decided to train caldari this time. So far that was a big mistake.

I'm finding the ships harder to fit. Blasters have better DPS than assault missiles. Cap is a major issue because shield boosters use way more than armor reps. On top of that I can't use cap rechargers because I need my mids for tanking. I can't use the low slot version either because it debuffs shield boosting. Yeah sure shield boosters heal a bit faster than reps, but that doesn't mean anything if they run me out of cap fast. Oh and my drone bay and bandwidth are less than half a gallente ship's or a rupture's too. Missiles would have the advantage of being able to do any damage type, but CCP went and gave them a kinetic only bonus. Anyone else think it's screwed up that other race's missile ships have 4 times more choices in missiles than the missile race?

As far as I can tell caldari ships seem to be inferior in every way. Can anyone give me any advice on making them not suck? Is there a trick to it? I'm not posting this to QQ. I want advice on how caldari ships are supposed to work. Either they're just totally worthless in PvE or I'm doing something very wrong. Hopefully it's the latter so I can L2P and not have to crosstrain.

Edit: Forgot my fit. Everything is named T1 of various meta levels except for the boost amp which is vanilla T1.

Highs: Heavy launchers, malkuth I think. Was assault launchers, but the DPS increase was nowhere near enough to justify the extra power grid and I couldn't close on long range enemies without running out of cap from the damned shield booster.

Mids: Medium shield booster, 10mn afterburner, shield boost amp, 2 rat specific hardeners.

Lows: a weapon upgrade, whatever the missile one is called. Ballistic control I think? And a coproc.

2 caldari light scout drones in the drone bay. Whatever the caldari version of hobgoblins are called.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#2 - 2012-04-17 05:14:17 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
Either they're just totally worthless in PvE or I'm doing something very wrong. Hopefully it's the latter so I can L2P and not have to crosstrain.


Caldari ships are far from totally worthless in PvE. I think you are just lacking in skills.

What fits are you trying to use?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-04-17 05:25:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
FT Diomedes wrote:
Joran Dravius wrote:
Either they're just totally worthless in PvE or I'm doing something very wrong. Hopefully it's the latter so I can L2P and not have to crosstrain.


Caldari ships are far from totally worthless in PvE. I think you are just lacking in skills.

What fits are you trying to use?

Edited to show my fit. (more or less)

Edit: It's not like I don't know how to play, even with low SP. Last new character I made was ratting in 0.0 in a cap stable dual rep myrmidon and doing just fine in under a month. This character? Barely able to do level 2 missions I blew through like it was nothing in a vexor.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#4 - 2012-04-17 05:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
If you're using a Caracal for L2s (I assume...) use a passive shield fit with omni-resists (2 x invuls). If I recall (used to have a Caldari missioning alt), you can fit a decent one with fairly low skills.

E: There are probably far better fits out there, but I'm pretty sure mine looked something like this one. You can swap out an invul for a specific hardener for tough missions:

[Caracal, PvE Fit]

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Trauma Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Trauma Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Trauma Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Trauma Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Trauma Heavy Missile

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Edward Longshanx
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#5 - 2012-04-17 05:30:41 UTC
If you need a CoProc and are having power issues, you probably need to skill up some more.

You should be able to fit:

2x BCS

AB, Booster, Boost Amp, 2x Hardeners

5x HML or HAM

CCC rig x3

That should give you solid dps and tank for level 2s. Level 3s, I'd suggest flying a Drake well in those.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-04-17 05:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Karl Hobb wrote:
If you're using a Caracal for L2s (I assume...) use a passive shield fit with omni-resists (2 x invuls). If I recall (used to have a Caldari missioning alt), you can fit a decent one with fairly low skills.

Keep in mind I only have experience with armor tanking. How do you go about passive tanking? Shield rechargers? Shield extenders? Some combination of both? If you don't mind can I have your fit please?

Edward Longshanx wrote:
If you need a CoProc and are having power issues, you probably need to skill up some more.

You should be able to fit:

2x BCS

AB, Booster, Boost Amp, 2x Hardeners

5x HML or HAM

CCC rig x3

That should give you solid dps and tank for level 2s. Level 3s, I'd suggest flying a Drake well in those.

I'm aware my fitting skills are a bit sub-par even for cruisers. I plan to work on that soon. Still, 1 BCS isn't going to make a huge difference and the rest of the fit is identical.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#7 - 2012-04-17 05:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Train towards something like this for Level 2 missions. Use T1/Meta where necessary. When you are ready for Level 3s, upgrade to the Drake. When you first start out, prioritize shield and cap skills, then go for T2 weapons.


[Caracal, Caracal]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Edit - or you can go the passive shield tank route:

[Caracal, Caracal copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-04-17 05:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
FT Diomedes wrote:
Train towards something like this for Level 2 missions. Use T1/Meta where necessary. When you are ready for Level 3s, upgrade to the Drake. When you first start out, prioritize shield and cap skills, then go for T2 weapons.


[Caracal, Caracal]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Medium Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Edit - or you can go the passive shield tank route:

[Caracal, Caracal copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I

Meh, if I need a mostly T2 fit just for **** easy level 2 missions the ship is trash. I'm just going to accept that my training plans are going to take an extra day and a half and crosstrain gallente. It'll be faster than training for that fit. For now, can you give me a decent passive fit I can use while I wait? Maybe I'll have better luck with that.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#9 - 2012-04-17 05:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Joran Dravius wrote:
Meh, if I need a mostly T2 fit just for **** easy level 2 missions the ship is trash. I'm just going to accept that my training plans are going to take an extra day and a half and crosstrain gallente. It'll be faster than training for that fit. For now, can you give me a decent passive fit I can use while I wait? Maybe I'll have better luck with that.

Did you miss this?
FT Diomedes wrote:
Use T1/Meta where necessary.

Swap out some stuff. L2s are **** easy.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
ACE81
Sacred Sacrifice
#10 - 2012-04-17 05:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: ACE81
Some fits for PVE for you to check out swap T1 were you cant do T2

[Kestrel, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Civilian Shield Booster

Standard Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Trauma Light Missile

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

[Merlin, TNK copy 1]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Medium Shield Extender II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II

75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

[Cormorant, pve]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

1MN Afterburner II
Medium Shield Extender II
Small Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II

75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
75mm Gatling Rail II, Antimatter Charge
Rocket Launcher II

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

[Caracal, T2 AML]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Light Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Hobgoblin II x

[Drake, Level 4 Ooga Booga import 1 copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

10MN Afterburner II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Target Painter II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Trauma Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-04-17 05:49:02 UTC
ACE81 wrote:

10MN Afterburner I
Large Shield Extender I
Large Shield Extender I
Invulnerability Field I
Invulnerability Field I

I'll go ahead and try this in my mids while I retrain. Thanks for suggesting something that wasn't what I already had, but T2. Thanks too to everyone else who tried to help, but considering everyone else just suggested basically the same fit I have, I think I'm just fundamentally incompatible with caldari ships and possibly shield tanking as a whole.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#12 - 2012-04-17 05:54:59 UTC
Fitting rat specific hardeners will do you a world of good. The beauty of Eve is that you are not stuck with any one race and can fly any ships you want. So, if you can't make Caldari work for you, by all means try Gallente. Most people find Caldari to be much more low-SP friendly than the other races.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Edward Longshanx
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#13 - 2012-04-17 05:58:23 UTC
The Caracal isn't amazing, but missile boats are regarded as some of the best pve ships in the game. If it doesn't fit your style, that's fine, but caldari ships are quite good at pve. I would just avoid trying to fly something that you can't fit out well.

I had an industry/hauler alt train Amarr and fit out a Maller just to screw around in level 2s, without good combat skills. Some missions were not very pleasant. On the other hand, my main could sleepwalk through level 2s in a Caracel if he were so inclined. Skills, skills, skills.
Leetha Layne
#14 - 2012-04-17 06:04:57 UTC
So you don't have a clue and blame the boats?
ACE81
Sacred Sacrifice
#15 - 2012-04-17 06:06:43 UTC
The trick is to keep moving shields last longer that way
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-04-17 06:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
FT Diomedes wrote:
Fitting rat specific hardeners will do you a world of good.

As I said in the original post I am using rat specific hardeners.

FT Diomedes wrote:
The beauty of Eve is that you are not stuck with any one race and can fly any ships you want. So, if you can't make Caldari work for you, by all means try Gallente. Most people find Caldari to be much more low-SP friendly than the other races.

I'm actually finding it exactly the opposite. Missiles are one size fits all. I can't scale down to smaller launchers if I don't have enough power grid. I can use cap rechargers to compensate for low cap skills on gallente and minmatar ships. Armor reps use less cap to begin with. On a rupture, vexor or thorax I have plenty of drones so I don't need high gunnery or missile skills to do decent damage to frigates. IMO gallente is the most low SP friendly by far.

Leetha Layne wrote:
So you don't have a clue and blame the boats?

Says the 1 year old player in a NPC corp. On my old account I had alts with twice your SP. Also like to point out that my fit was identical to what most people suggested. Apparently I'm good enough to come up with a decent shield fit despite the last caldari ship I flew being an osprey in beta.
Leetha Layne
#17 - 2012-04-17 06:18:56 UTC
Yes when you were King of the Gallentes no one flew Caldari. No one likes Drakes or Ravens and such as they blow.

Give me a break.
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-04-17 06:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Leetha Layne wrote:
Yes when you were King of the Gallentes no one flew Caldari. No one likes Drakes or Ravens and such as they blow.

Give me a break.

I would be insane if I didn't think the drake was OP. My dislike is for caldari ships in general. The raven lost it's mission running king throne many years ago.

Edit: And yeah actually at one point gallente were that period's winmatar and nobody flew caldari. You might have spotted the irony of your post if you weren't an NPC corp newbie and/or an alt of someone who bought their main.

Edit 2: Except high sec mission runners, who flew ravens.
ImmutableDark
Absalom.
#19 - 2012-04-17 07:02:20 UTC
All Caldari ships kind of suck at the moment we don't have a decent bs the only reason to train Caldari would be for the Drake or for the Rook. The Scorpion Navy Issue isn't bad either but I'd prefer a Megathron Navy Issue any day.
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-04-17 07:32:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Caldari is about only 2 ships: Drake and Tengu. Most other their ships are at best subpar. I wonder if anyone will fly Caldari ships when Drake and Tengu will be nerfed .
Edit: ECM ships are not for everyone and anyway it's a niche choice.
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