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The mining debate! Please share you opinions

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Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-04-17 02:58:38 UTC
I would like to do some debating on mining
Covering the problems and issues in Mining in general in both High, Low, worm hole, and Null sec.

Now I feel it is time to debate the subject so the CSM can come to the table with barriers, and recommendations when ask. I feel CCP will be asking the CSM about this shortly as ring mining has been proposed for this winter, and they may be asking other mining and industry comments.
After this debate goes on for a while I will try and drag the attention of a CSM member this way.

In this debate please state you experience and specialty
The Issue and why it is a problem, or misses the issue it is trying to address. Also if you are able brainstorm a couple of solutions, just don't go into too much detail, try and keep it quick and general.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-04-17 02:59:23 UTC
My Experience
I am a Null sec mining foreman starting in 2010, I start being a mining foreman in 2009 High after I left being a miner in 2008 in null sec. I spend my first year as a miner in high sec in 2007.

Issue: - Can't mine for production in Null sec.
Mining for profit is the only type of mining in null sec. Upgraded Systems for mining are havens to pump out zydrine and other expensive Minerals. ABC are found in large quantities and are in these pretty safe hidden belts. Null sec does have empire ores but the bulk are only found on the visible belts and those asteroids are as small as empire (The Empire ores found in hidden belts is limited). Compared to the ABC these are annoying to mine – so many missed cycles, and the exposure to danger is substantial. Currently Empire ores are bought off the market compressed into modules and then jump freighered out to a null sec station and refined for their minerals. A small corp trying to compete in null sec will be at a disadvantage vs corps with jump freighters at their disposal using jita as their source for minerals.

Solutions:
-->Compressing Ore with the Rorqual helped
-->Allowing Infrastructure owners to install nerfed upgrades that have increased empire ores and no ABC
-->Building ships ie capitals that specialize in bulk mining limited empire ores – Super Carriers with Fighter sized Mining drones.
--> More grave sites in Null sec, but are not more valuable than the sec status.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-04-17 03:00:04 UTC
My Experience
I am a Null sec mining foreman starting in 2010, I start being a mining foreman in 2009 High after I left being a miner in 2008 in null sec. I spend my first year as a miner in high sec in 2007

Issue: Done Region Nerf is a Boost to Null sec.
The nerf of the Drone Regions – I seemed that this was a fix for miners in null sec. Sadly I don't see this as fix, as the Minerals were used locally to build titans or ships to be sold in Jita. So this nerf is actually a bonus to empire mining. The Price of Zydrine should still remain low as most allainces are upgrading system up grade to install the hidden belts, and Miners will continue to mine only ABC (flipping the belt repeatedly,) to be sold on the empire market

Solutions:
-->Hats off to Empire this should help you out in the end.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-04-17 03:01:12 UTC
My Experience
I am a Null sec mining foreman starting in 2010, I start being a mining foreman in 2009 High after I left being a miner in 2008 in null sec. I spend my first year as a miner in high sec in 2007.


Issue Low Sec: It the most difficult place to make a living to mine:
--> Ore values are a little better than Empire but not much
-->You can't upgrade the system to produce hidden belts to hide in.
--> A system can't be bubbled to slow down potential aggressors.
--> With is close distance from Empire – through traffic is relatively high.

Solutions:
-->Hidden belts are rare, if they were more popular a miner might have more time to escape random roamers, but would fall prey to those roamers who have the belt pre book marked

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-04-17 03:02:16 UTC
My Experience
I am a Null sec mining foreman starting in 2010, I start being a mining foreman in 2009 High after I left being a miner in 2008 in null sec. I spend my first year as a miner in high sec in 2007


Issue Empire mining over population
-->To find rocks to mine is sometime difficult to find in empire.
-->Bots are in heavy use,


Solutions
-->Encourage miners to move out of empire.
-->--> Lessen the risk and increase the reward for mining in low sec
-->--> Put an exclusive mineral in low sec
-->--> Increase the safe availability of empire ores in Null sec
--> Decrease the Bots
-->--> Praise the Mighty Screeges and the security team.
-->--> Make the mining process more difficult (afk mining is a play style so not really an option)


Issue Value of minerals is low
-->Loot drops from Mission being refined flooding the market with minerals

Solutions
--> Nerfing Meta 0 loot in drops, but replacing them with Scrap metal – a Source for Trit.
-->--> Veldpar might just have to be the Scrap ore that no- one cares about.

Issue excessive gamks in Empire
--> Buff to Destroyers, introduction of Tier 3 BC have made suicide ganking easier.
-->Gank A Geddon
--> Ice Interdiction

Solutions
--> Miners often fit for max production vs max tank
--> Increase the Security Hit from suicide ganks (Think this was done in 2009)
--> Remove insurance payouts from suicide Pay outs (Think this was done in 2010)
--> The new crime watch will be changed and it sounds like a player may only get 1 volley off, but may get a 2nd volley off before insta death.(though suicide ganking is meant to be a viable option in empire)
--> Encourage Miners to Null sec (might be goons attempt to force miners into null sec out of empire)
--> Increase value and reduce the risk of low sec.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-17 06:37:12 UTC
I have not mined in null-sec for more then a year, so by all accounts i cannot be taken on this subject as an expert, however it was my understanding that empire ores did spawn out there in bulk, the same kinds of bulk that you tend to see in low-sec, but with the security a large alliance can bring to an area, they tend to get mined out. what exact bulk i cant say.

It seems broken that the empire ores do not spawn in vastly larger quantities in null then in empire. is your experience limited to several mining systems? or a larger survey of systems the alliance says are off limits to mining, ( i know that sometimes an alliance will limit range, or system for mining, why im not sure

Empire mining is limited by its ore types, ABC understandably does not spawn here. But because it is "safer" more people mine it and thus available in quantity, I wonder if its an issue with the number of miners mining abc vs other ores available? because the isk per hour makes it less attractive to mine veld in null why bother doing it when you can mine abc, compress it and jump it to hi-sec for much more isk.

[i]Could it be convenience factor vs rewards factor that is limiting your trit production? [/i

Low sec mining, which ive done once or twice, is generally far riskier then it could possibly be rewarding. because of the acceleration speeds of barges, and the relatively low yields/cargos of non barges, mining in hi-sec is far better use of time then attempting to mine in low-sec.

[i]When i can make 2x-3x as much mining in better relative security, why bother mining in low-sec? with a standard scan fit t3 able to find me in about as much time as i can warp in, whats the value in trying?[/i

Hi-sec mining is pretty worthwhile for several reasons, mainly though you its because you don't have to check local every second to see if there are enemies around. The prevalence and popularity of hulkageddon is evidence of this, if null-sec or low sec were easy/worthwhile to mine respectively this wouldn't be as much of an event.

as to your fixes.
~Nullsec,
-> Built station compress function to help those without regular rorqual acces
-> Mining upgrades increases all kinds of ore spawns, not just ABC, or low ends in greater quantities
-> nullsec mining ships cost effective enough to take out to belts, as opposed to ships too expensive to risk in such a manner, no one brings rorquals to belts.
-> More grav sites with better distribution of ore in the

Lowse
-> jaspet size reductio
-> hidden belts change ship and drone sig to make them harder to find. grav sites have small sigs themselves and its harder to find the site then the ships or drones in the sit
- > randomization of ore spawns in hidden sites to encourage people looking for them and making it worthwhile to mine them when foun

Hise
-> Increase tank of hulks slightly or fitting abilities of mining ships, preferring the t1 variants.
-> more hidden belts with same distribution of hisec ore same sig changes as lowse
-> decrease ore spawns depending on mining per system, heavier mining reduces ore spawns. encourages mining groups to spread out more and find isolated locations rather then sitting forever on main arterie
-> higher built station / pos refine rates, reduce refine yields for npc stations. based off of security of system.

To be honest i don't believe that any group will ever really actively mine lowsec systems. If any do right now, i haven't heard of them, and they aren't going to advertise this fact. because of the dangers of mining in low it doesn't make sense to risk any amount of isk ship doing it. as the rewards of mining even missions are that much higher.

As to nullsec, I wasn't aware low ends, like veld, don't spawn in mass, or that there was any incentive to mine them over high ends like crokite or hedbergite. It is all well and good to encourage miners to go to null, but if there aren't alliances that will receive them or make realistic choices when renting, why deal with the hassle of attempting to live there
My guess for the various goon campaigns against miners is that they may waive the "get them to null" flag, but its more about being goons and griefing then anything else. to put it simply, i don't believe in goon altruism.

Another major factor of mineral wealth is the influx of high ends from loot drops, as a missioner myself, i make a fair amount of isk off these minerals, either in selling them straight or manufacturing. because i don't need a link to null for these minerals i don't have to go get them or talk to the people that do get them.

many runners dont pick up the loot at all while others do. its a delicate balance to nerf drops or increase bounties in missions but CCP's graphs show that a large amount of mineral wealth is not from mining. allowing perfect refining in npc stations is in my mind one of the problems. refining yield sought to be tied to security status of system, standings to npc owner and skills. so that refining in a 1.0 system is the least profitable.

sorry for the wall.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
cornholio508
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-04-17 16:24:42 UTC
Its a hard subject to have a debate on . I am not apposed to changes but some things should be left well enough alone . However CCP seem to be on the path of the welfare of many over the few .

I dont see the problem with the ore . from what i can tell null has everything . Low sec has less and high sec has only the readily available low cost ores . The problem as i see it is the drastic step from high to low sec as regards to mining at all . Yes you have the added benefit of another capital industrial ship but you lack in any kind of security what so ever for mining in low sec . So here is my proposal

High low and null sec .
Main problems
Suicide ganking
afk mining
bots
perfect refining

[u]SOLUTION MINING [/u
As asteroids are mined they create a dust cloud . This cloud interferes with all combat vessels increasing lock times . This then giving the miner a chance to get away . This favors the fleet of active pilots who are playing the game . The bigger the gang the more interference . However bots and AFK miners are still at risk of been ganked . The lower the security system the less of an effect this has with the effect been non existent in null

This way instead of high sec to low sec mining been like jumping off a cliff , you get several issues solved in one go

1 . You reduce suicide ganking to active groups in high sec
2. AFK miners are still open to suicide ganking
3. Bots are not protected by cowering behind active groups of miners
4. Give new players an easier time to get their bearings and make isk for much needed skills starting off .
5. also increasing the risk of suicide gankers not having their way b4 they get CONCORDOKENED
6. to having some security and time to call reinforcements in lowsec . This also helps teaches low sec corps the meaning of security fleets and some basic null tactics .
7. null sec jump not so difficult at the end of the day due to lessons learnt in .

[u]Counter to the solution for mining .[/u
Adding a 2nd sensor booster would overcome that problem . This adds some real risk on the behalf of the suicide gankers . It would create a chance effect that suicide gankers may not complete their task b4 been concordokened due to reduced dps . Make the risk v reward work for suicide ganking in high sec too .

[u]NPC PREFECT REFINING .[/u
As for perfect refining if the current system is changed too drastically it will only cause ore prices to soar . My propsal for this is as follows .
Proposal 1 .
NPC corp members . % increased loss for been in an npc corp even with perfect skills
Corporations . % increase in cost of offices for use of 50% refine stations . OR 30%/50% optional when creating a corp office within a station .
proposal 2 .
Nerf 50% refine stations availability depending on the security . i.e 30% less 50% stations in high sec with a % increase in office costs . Leave low and null sec alone bar reducing costs of offices for corporations .

Now i know there is probably some wholes in my proposals .
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-04-17 21:47:40 UTC
Honestly Kusum Fawn nothing has change in null sec except the increase in the numbers of stations over the past year..

I feel opposite to the refining issue. Since High sec is Civilized recycling and minimal waste should happen much like in big cities. Though in Remote sections like null sec should be a place where waste is expected but can easily be over compensated by quantities of resources collected.
I think the step of removing the meta 0 items that can be player produce to be removed from drops and replaced with scrap metal is a good idea. Meaning only Veldspar will be taking a dramatic hit from this change and the other ores will be mined more frequently.
PC station refining in Null should be far worse than in low or high sec as it should be compensated by the resources gathering levels in theses areas.
For low sec There should be Plentiful roids in grave belts able to be farms in large quantities and good refining. This would make low sec unique – Being the best place to bring in Capital mining ships to rip apart large asteroid bets of Low end and medium end ore.

In null sec I do feel alone when mining low end minerals. The common approach in null sec is to take modules and refine them in null sec. For Small alliances with out ease of access to a jump freighter this becomes a problem. So I am Stuck with a crew mining in belts which show up on the over view. (not so safe) luckily I can bubble the gate(s). The roids grow to the size as the ones in empire , so cycles are lost from mining unlike the high ends, though the number of Empire Ore roids is smaller as there are also null and low sec roids. So in the end I mine the small hidden upgraded belt to fill my quota of high end ore then spend days mining 8 belts to finish collecting the other minerals. Thus we get the common statement that null sec rely's on the nipple of Jita.
Being able to have nerfed (No ABC) mining up grades would be awesome. Allow us to reserve 1 system to up grade that we can flip belts to gain the resources we need to build ships locally. This would allow Smaller Alliances to be self sufficient with out having to rely on Jump Bridges or Jump freighters for goods.

Thanks for your response Kusum Fawn

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-04-17 23:27:31 UTC
cornholio508
I like the idea of mining causing a dust cloud hampering targeting. Though bots most likely will start the running away script once the targeting starts...Though Seeing bots auto docking because you targeted them would be fun.. Using a Passive sensory array will not alert the hulk that he has been targeted. Targeting a person does not cause aggro from concord, so I don't see how this will reduce the amount of damage being done to a ship. With Concords current response time, only 1 ship can be destroyed by a suicide ganker before he is concorded.

The Clouds also would help change the combat around asteroids, changing up combat in that area.

The Question of Risk vs rewards is not clear when Suicide ganking – The rewards of tears, death threats, from the care bear carries great weight. Even after the Increase in Faction hits in 2009(?) and removal of insurance payout in 2011 the level of suicide ganks are happening at the same rate.

There was talk about the introduction of new mining cruisers in the ship revamp I am interested to see what they are going to produce.

The Higher refining loss from empire stations may have an adverse effect. It has been said that the people turning in the loot to be refined do not care what they are getting paid as it is just a bonus above the bounties so this would not discourage the refining of loot. This would discourage miners from the mining profession.. an alternative may be separating refining base value for recycling goods (Modals) and virgin goods (ore)... In fact this may be a solution for Null sec problem modules being brought up from Jita and refined for empire minerals. (oh – Synergy moment)

Thanks for you ideas cornholio508

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#10 - 2012-04-18 07:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolodymyr
Gevlin wrote:
-->Encourage miners to move out of empire.
Make highsec station refine worse than lowsec, and lowsec worse than null. For some reason this is backwards now.
Also more exorbadent taxes on highsec research and manufacturing slots.
Gevlin wrote:
-->--> Lessen the risk and increase the reward for mining in low sec
Add more grav sites, lots of roams check the belts but probing is a little more rare, and takes longer than shotgunning the belts.
Gevlin wrote:
-->--> Put an exclusive mineral in low sec
I assume you mean one that doesn't show up in null too. Yeah this is a good idea. But to be fair W-space will need a unique ore, and just for laughs make a highsec only ore (call it carebearium)
Gevlin wrote:
-->--> Make the mining process more difficult (afk mining is a play style so not really an option)
the only thing that makes mining tolerable is being able to read a book / do something else in between the several minute long mining cycles. Also watching local for neuts popping in takes a lot of attention


One new suggestion though, with the prices on ships and mods now entirely based on mining smaller ships have skyrocketed in price (maybe it's just market speculation now, but whatever). For someone who has been playing eve a while this isn't too much of a big deal. But for newer players having an imicus double in price is a huge kick in the balls when your only income is from level 1, 2, and 3 missions. cut the mineral requirements on blue prints of T1 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers. Think of the shorties yo!

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544
cornholio508
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-04-18 19:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: cornholio508
Gevlin wrote:
cornholio508
I like the idea of mining causing a dust cloud hampering targeting. Though bots most likely will start the running away script once the targeting starts...Though Seeing bots auto docking because you targeted them would be fun.. Using a Passive sensory array will not alert the hulk that he has been targeted. Targeting a person does not cause aggro from concord, so I don't see how this will reduce the amount of damage being done to a ship. With Concords current response time, only 1 ship can be destroyed by a suicide ganker before he is concorded

The Clouds also would help change the combat around asteroids, changing up combat in that area.

Maybe i wasn't too clear on my point about this . yes passive targeting doesn't does not alert the miner . However active miners would see a cheap ship sitting there ready to pounce , and go OK time to move . Now in order for them to have a higher success rate they would have to add more sensor boosters . This in turn normally reduces cap there for reducing the amount of lows they can commit to weapons upgrades . This in turn reduces their overall dps

Gevlin wrote:

The Question of Risk vs rewards is not clear when Suicide ganking – The rewards of tears, death threats, from the care bear carries great weight. Even after the Increase in Faction hits in 2009(?) and removal of insurance payout in 2011 the level of suicide ganks are happening at the same rate



The problem with suicide ganking steams from botting . We all know this . It was the only way to counter bots in high sec . So it took off . Unfortunately it went in the wrong direction and ganking bots is used as an excuse to do it . Yes in game they do get punished . However their kill boards is where the reward is . Ships destroyed by concord don't show on kill boards . Even if they did their efficiency would still be massive due to the way the kill board calculates it . Now on the other hand if ccp managed to find a way to stop all suicide ganked ships from appearing on kill boards then it would end suicide ganking .

The main question here is do we want to stop suicide ganking
In my opinion NO we don't . It is a viable way to stop botting from a players perspective . That is until CCP deal with them .

DO we need a counter for ganking
Yes . We definitely need to be able to at least get away from gankers .
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-04-18 22:02:36 UTC
Wall of text (removed.)

I think the Base refining of a station needs to be separated between Recycling and Virgin ore refining.
The Virgin Ore refining will stay the same no matter how much Ore/ice, or compressed ore/ice is refined in it.
Recycling base value will be variable with larger amounts of recycling reducing the base value quickly over time. Only by avoiding, or rarely using this service will the base climb again.

Also open up ore compression to stations so empire miners can compress their ore.

Continue with the Changes to modules and their drops as proposed at fan fest.

This will do several things –
Empire-> Refining of Modules will be done out side of jita and will move towards low sec as industrials shop for a place that will provide them with reasonable recycling rates
Null Sec-> Only a limited amount of minerals will be compressed via module compression as null sec entities look to buying compressed ore from empire or mine ore locally to full fill their needs. Giving the small alliance equal footing with large alliances when producing ships locally.
Low Sec -> May push some industrialist into low sec as these places will have the least used Recycling services.








Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-04-18 22:14:03 UTC
CCP was introducing some "Unique Game Breaking" rigs that has a big bonus to 1 thing but a dramatic drop in another.

one of these rigs may be able to double the internal structure of a hull at a cost of halfing the Production cycle of miners with skill only dropping the effect by 5% per level.

This would make the need for a larger ship than a Destroyer to kill a covetor if fitted with a couple of these rigs and a damage control.

I am looking forward to the next months Hulkageddon because the Goons are opening up the attacks to all industry based ships. So it should be be interesting to see the change in the dynamics of this.

Also the change in the Crime watch "might" be out by that time. It is its - this may just change the game field on how suicide ganking is done.

Ie the exploit of having an orca in systems with ships so that a -10 pod can grab a ship kill a miner and die, to only grab another ship from the friendly orca and do it again.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-18 23:05:46 UTC
Wow, long posts.

Fix 1, more interactive mining

Fix 2, http://vapor65.deviantart.com/art/Prospect-T3-ver-2-190233061

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-04-19 04:11:59 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Wow, long posts.

Fix 1, more interactive mining



Fix 2, http://vapor65.deviantart.com/art/Prospect-T3-ver-2-190233061


Fix 1 I for one am tired of the current mining structure after mining for 5+ years. I am really looking forward to the Ring mining as it will requiring people to find the "Vein" of mining.

But current mining needs to say the way as it is because it has a style of game play that allow people to watch a movie and play the game paying only partial attention... For some they run an army of 7 Hulks to keep them active during play.

Fix 2 Very well thought out work, With the new way they are doing ship I am wondering if you proposed Tech 3 industirai ship, can it be broken down so that they could be simple attachments the current 4 races. Allowing for a wider variety?
Also since ore is a faction: will the mining barge and hulk become pirate faction ships?

I really don't have anything positive nor negative to say I am just tossing around opinions/questions, on some really good ideas.

thanks Markus Reese for adding to the thread Markus Reese - I some some hard well though out work was done on that poster.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-04-19 05:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Gevlin
problem Suiciding of Mining ships.
I think what players may want is a tech 2 Mining vessal that is has a combat focused tank and can use strip miners.

Take a hulk remove 1 high. Add a mid and some power grid so a max tank could be put in place.

This ship would be the SHIP of the line for miners. Use often in Empire but also in Null sec to tank rate in belts or to do tasks in areas where PVP may happen.

Though better would be a Battle ship sized mining ship with serious tank and moderate mining ability. So that it can last in hostile environments. Combat strength as a sniper Destroyer
New role would be bait ship and ship used when a known red is in system so the mining vessel can assist against small ships.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2012-04-19 06:43:04 UTC
Mining to keep up with production is fairly easy in null, problem is how to convince the miner to suffer the humiliation of hitting low-ends when he can do ABC and sell in Jita
- I heard paying him well is a good start. Cutting the Jita umbilical cord is another great step, if cheap minerals were suddenly to require large logistics operations (think freighter OPs) local mining [i]should[i] see a healthy boost.
Primary issue in this regard is the easy access to/from Jita made possible by JF's, Titan bridges and Jump bridges .. to use a real world analogy; Why build ones own industry when China/India/Bangladesh/Etc. is willing and able to sell you stuff at low prices

Drone region changes are indeed a boost to null mining in general .. the minerals that are on high-sec markets come from where presently? Drone region output has been so great that mining even for the lucrative ABC's of old has been a fools errand
- With high-ends no longer being gun-mined ABC's become valuable everywhere once more .. puts extra pressure on low-end output so some solution is needed. Actually think that is one of the reasons for the ring-mining concept, bulk production of low-ends (think trawlers vs. fishing lines)

Low-sec is dead and will stay that way until the campaign to reanimate it scores a win/persuades CCP that it is in their interest to have life there
- In the mean time it is a 'simple' matter of increasing the availability of rocks in the exploration sites that spawn in 0.1-0.5, quite a few already have decent rocks even if they are not actual mining sites

The absolute first thing that should be done is to make mining more "involved", the 'target, click, go for tea' system is tedious beyond reason and that won't change even if they add rings, asteroids, planetcores or whatever else their feverish brains come up with
- While AFK mining is and should remain a valid lifestyle, that doesn't prevent us from adding an interactive element that provides higher yields .. hell, go all out and create a system that requires cooperation/coordination for maximum performance
- Suicide ganking is easily "fixed" by moving all security standing repair work to low-sec. Current system allows entities like Goons to drop to -10 in a day trololol'ing through high-sec and be back in the positive after a few days ratting in the deep blue and stupidly safe (comparatively) sea of null ... if they want/need to have a safe place to repair their standings then they are free to come and carve out a bit of low-sec .. if they can Twisted ..
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-04-19 06:58:08 UTC
hmm removing the change of Concord faction out side of null sec would be interesting....

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-04-19 14:05:26 UTC
tech 2 mineral distribution to be overhauled, make alliance work for them rather then withdraw from the pos bank
moon mining was one worst things ccp ever came up with. should be able to find small amounts in high sec ring belts, med low, high null and WH

other then that im happy with the incoming mineral nerfs to the drone region and mission runners.

tech 2 bpo's seeded on the market do away with invention and skills, require datacores from faction warfare and agents to run

mining ships need to be a safer, even in high sec, investment. orca's too. you say they are suppose to be like oil rigs... when was the last time you saw military ships attack an oil rig? or get kamikazed by zeros? also the resulting explosion of a mining vessel should be huge and cause space environmental hazards

tech1 ores to contain trace amounts of other minerals in addition to normal, skill to boost these extra type of minerals in refine
you should get small amounts of null and low sec minerals in high sec ores, med for low, and high for null and wh, likewise with high sec minerals few in null and wh, med in low, high in high... balanced

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2012-04-19 15:23:51 UTC
Gevlin wrote:

Also open up ore compression to stations so empire miners can compress their ore.


Already can, bud. Just need to be in low. Allowing HISEC access to compression is bad news.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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