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At the risk of sounding stupid: I have a question about the bhaalgorn.
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Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#1 - 2012-04-16 18:26:05 UTC
Ok I know I am going to sound like an idiot as I have seen many, many people say the bhaalgorn is unsuitable for pve. I get that it isn't the most efficient ship and costs more than most but from looking at the stats It seems to be pretty decent especially considering that I'm a sucker for the armageddon model and this seems the best of them.

-100% bonus to large energy turret damage, with 4 turrets, surely this would give it equivalent to 8 turrets which is better than standard or navy armageddon.
-Less drone capacity than navy armageddon but same number in flight.
-Vampire and neut bonuses are pointless for pve to the best of my knowledge, but I've seen several battleships with webs on battleclinic and people seem to think of having a web on a mission runner as a good thing.
-Less guns running at a time and better capacitor recharge would surely make it more cap stable.
-Better armour and shields.

It seems the only negatives is has compared to navy or standard armageddon is slightly higher sig radious and slightly slower speed.

Once again I am NOT comparing it to the mainstream lvl.4 ships but as far as I can see at the very least it's equivalent in power to the navy apocalypse and for an aesthetics crazed player such as myself it seems a viable option.

Feel free to let me know where I've screwed up in my analysis. Smile
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#2 - 2012-04-16 18:30:04 UTC
Don't forget the ROF bonus on the Navy Armageddon which increases its effective number of fraction turrents (i can't remember by how much though)
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2012-04-16 18:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Gorki Andropov wrote:
Don't forget the ROF bonus on the Navy Armageddon which increases its effective number of fraction turrents (i can't remember by how much though)


1/(1-.25) = 1*4/3 = ~1.33

7/(1-.25) = 7*4/3 = ~9.33

edit: and 7*4/3 > 4*2, obviously. So the 'geddon models outdamage the Bhaalgorn, as do the Apoc models and the Abaddon. The other double damage ships, the Nightmare and Paladin, both get 4*2*(1+.25) or 10 effective turrets to the Bhaal's 8.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#4 - 2012-04-16 18:57:15 UTC
Luthor Reiza wrote:

Less drone capacity than navy armageddon but same number in flight.



Same number in flight but not the same size - with the Navy Geddon you can carry and field a set of T2 Sentries/Heavies giving you an additional 300 DPS.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#5 - 2012-04-16 19:45:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Luthor Reiza
Had forgotten about the rof bonus. However, firing slower would further help cap stability meaning I could use rigs to improve damage that at the moment im using on boosting cap.

As for drones I cannot use t2 sentries/heavies with my skills at the moment. Focussing on other things over the coming months.
Xurr
Wasted Potential.
#6 - 2012-04-16 20:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Xurr
The bhaa doesn't get a cap usage bonus like the navy geddon/apoc so you don't actually use less cap.

The navy ships have 350 calibration points so even using a T1 damage rig is hard.

The navy apoc has a range bonus and the same damage.

The navy apoc actually has the better armor amount.

Unless you are going to shield tank the bhaa i think the 4 mid / 8 low of the navy geddon/apoc work better.

A shield tanked bhaa with tachs isn't bad i guess but then you enter the comparison with the nightmare.
Katalci
Kismesis
#7 - 2012-04-16 20:24:45 UTC
PvE bhaalgorns make me cry. It's such a waste of one of the most beautiful hulls in the game.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-04-16 20:29:04 UTC
I think the bottom line is that you can make a missions running Bhal, but it'll probably do on par with or worse than ships half the cost of it.

But if price and efficiency are no object, then you could probably get away with it.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-16 20:40:28 UTC
Katalci wrote:
PvE bhaalgorns make me cry. It's such a waste of one of the most beautiful hulls in the game.


^this...

There is no Bob.

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Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#10 - 2012-04-16 20:42:34 UTC
Hmm, as I expected there are a number of things I hadn't factored in, though I'm pretty sure bhaalgorn has higher armour acording to market info. Guess in the end Katalci summed it up as I'm a sucker for ship appearance. I'll probably just get one for the added variety until I get bored with staring at its backside then move onto another innapropriate pve ship. Pirate

Thanks for explaining the areas I'd forgotten or misunderstood though. Smile
Niko Takahashi
Yoshitomi Group
#11 - 2012-04-17 15:52:48 UTC
If you want get one and make one.

Maybe not going to be the best but it is going to be decent enough look super cool as well

Personally I would use something like this

4 Slot tank 3 heatsinks

dual long range faction webs cap booster 2 tracking comps or afterburner tracking comp combo

Tachyons
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#12 - 2012-04-17 17:25:08 UTC
OP, if you want a 4-turret PvE laser battleship, go for the Paladin. Cheaper than a Bhaalgorn, with better resists, has a damage bonus, and better cap recharge.

Bhaalgorn can work for PvE (like any battleship can, really) but it won't necessarily be great at it. Plus, it would be an embarrassing loss mail waiting to happen.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-04-17 19:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
Anything with a cap neut/vamp bonus is gauren-damn-teed to be a PvP ship. Basically the bhaalghorn is made to fit 4 large lasers and Nos's so that anyone stupid enough to try and cap neut you is wasting their time, with 4 turrets boosted 100% you save space to fit Nos's and other high slot modules. I fly Caldari but looking at the fitting thats what I see.

Vamps supply the Cap you need to run Webs and Large turrets and a tank.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-04-17 20:00:10 UTC
IMO

One of the main reasons you don't see them PVE is that they are a Pirate Faction BS and therefore they make a nice target. That being said for lulz I messed around with fittings for using one PVE in anom clearing for WH work. Especially in a C1 where mass restrictions mean you'll never get ambushed by anything bigger then a BC.

I had a 8 min cap hybrid PVE/PVP fit Bhaal that was capped wel enough to stand up to c1/c2 anoms solo where endurance is way more important than raw hitting power and still had enough EHP and with the web and nuet bonuses would have been a stone b!tch for a T3 to deal with alone. Throw in some ECM drones and this Bhaal might be able to take on more than T3 tbh. I would post fit but I'm at work. Sad

So the question is why didn't I build it?

Well its one thing to spend 2.5 to 5 million ISK on a BPC for a Geddon, Apoc, or Baddon and build it in a C1 it can never leave, something else entirely to drop a Billion. Also, the fact of the matter is that I wouldn't risk a Billion clearing anoms in a c1/c2 in a Bhaalgorn becuase TBH no matter how nasty it is. Its going to get popped eventually. Cool

Although you'd pay for the Bhaal with 133 melted nano ribbons at 7.5 million per unit. Or about 16 hours of anom grinding in a c1/c2. Just goes to show you, you'll think up some pretty off the wall stuff when you spend too much time alone in WH space. Blink

As for Missions, Like it was said above the Navy Boats and the Paladin are better options. I know a guy who has two accounts with Paladin trained toons and he fits one with 4 Tachs and 3 Tractors, and the other with 4 Tachs and 3 Salvagers. Me personally I'd go with Pulses(scroches rock). Anyway he gets all the hitting power of two BSs and has almost the same ability to clean up after himself as he would with a Noctis. 
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#15 - 2012-04-17 20:29:45 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Anything with a cap neut/vamp bonus is gauren-damn-teed to be a PvP ship. Basically the bhaalghorn is made to fit 4 large lasers and Nos's so that anyone stupid enough to try and cap neut you is wasting their time, with 4 turrets boosted 100% you save space to fit Nos's and other high slot modules. I fly Caldari but looking at the fitting thats what I see.

Vamps supply the Cap you need to run Webs and Large turrets and a tank.


Vamps are very poor at letting you run anything other than tackle and maybe your guns, due to them only giving you cap if you have less cap than your opponent. Most people put neuts on the Bhaalgorn, since with its neuting bonus it can bring down capital ships' cap easily.

In PvE that huge neut bonus is largely wasted.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
AstarothPrime
Pecunia Infinita
#16 - 2012-04-17 23:31:37 UTC
Bhaalgorn and PVE arent supposed to be done at the same time...

It is THE heavy pvp ship capable of capping out whole small gangs and solo capping and popping even carriers...

If u want PVE look in direction of -> nightmare...

I.
Miles O'Connor
Red Pegasus Fleet
#17 - 2012-04-18 03:28:37 UTC
Will it work? Sure...but you can also solo level 4's in a Myrmidon. Your isk/hour ratio will suck, but if you want to mission with a Bhaalgorn just for the lulz, and have the isk to blow, then go for it. Personally, I don't see why people get their panties in a bunch over someone else missioning in a ship that isn't perfect for it. If you feel like spending the isk and time, do it; it's yours to spend.

That said, if you want a laserboat, I'd recommend any of the T1 Amarr battleships, the Paladin, the Nightmare, or the Navy battleships over a Bhaalgorn any day. The Bhaalgorn has bonuses that are just not useful for missioning. They all work fine, although the Paladin or Nightmare should probably be your eventual goal, if you want the hull best suited for what you're doing, and depending on whether or not you have/want good shield skills.
Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#18 - 2012-04-18 16:30:10 UTC
Yeah in the end I decided against it, brilliant looking ship but ultimately not so much better looking than navy version to justify the billion+ investment which, to be perfectly honest, I would far rather invest in other financially ludicrous items (dairy products). A battleship is insignificant next to the power of shiny teeth.

Going to stick with the navy armageddon until ccp hopefully release this custom colour thingamajig so I can ditch the unremittingly sickening paladin colour scheme.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2012-04-18 19:31:34 UTC
Luthor Reiza wrote:
Yeah in the end I decided against it, brilliant looking ship but ultimately not so much better looking than navy version to justify the billion+ investment which, to be perfectly honest, I would far rather invest in other financially ludicrous items (dairy products). A battleship is insignificant next to the power of shiny teeth.

Going to stick with the navy armageddon until ccp hopefully release this custom colour thingamajig so I can ditch the unremittingly sickening paladin colour scheme.



It's not like the navy geddon is a bad ship. Pretty much all empire faction tier 1 BS are great (NavDomi kind of loses out here)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-04-18 19:53:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Luthor Reiza wrote:
Yeah in the end I decided against it, brilliant looking ship but ultimately not so much better looking than navy version to justify the billion+ investment which, to be perfectly honest, I would far rather invest in other financially ludicrous items (dairy products). A battleship is insignificant next to the power of shiny teeth.

Going to stick with the navy armageddon until ccp hopefully release this custom colour thingamajig so I can ditch the unremittingly sickening paladin colour scheme.



It's not like the navy geddon is a bad ship. Pretty much all empire faction tier 1 BS are great (NavDomi kind of loses out here)

Having myself never flown one may I ask why you feel that way about the navy Domi?
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