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Detail question on MWD/Cloaking/Warp technique

Author
Venn Draeys
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-12 19:14:26 UTC
I do not yet have the ability to use a tech 2 cloaking device, so I'm using a Prototype Cloaking Device and a MWD on an industrial. I have found that I get better warp times when I turn off my cloak half way through the MWD cycle. The reason is that after that point, the -90% speed from the cloak overwhelms the +600% speed from the MWD, and I wind up further and further from my 75% speed for warp initiation. So if I turn it off half way through, I get into warp sooner than letting it run its full cycle.

However, that means my MWD is still running after my cloak disengages, which increases my signature by 500%. So I make a HUGE target, while getting into warp sooner.

Which is better? To let my MWD finish and reduce my signature but take longer to warp? Or get into warp faster, while making it easier for a gate camper to target me during the available time?
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-12 19:43:30 UTC
Be patient and train for a T2 cloak (and if you insist on hauling stuff through low-sec get a blockade runner as fast as possible)
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#3 - 2012-04-13 09:52:15 UTC
t2 cloak is da way ....
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#4 - 2012-04-13 13:25:32 UTC
... Wait... Which t1 industrial are you even able to fit a MWD on?
churrros
afwewafe
#5 - 2012-04-13 14:13:17 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... Wait... Which t1 industrial are you even able to fit a MWD on?


I will have to check EFT, but IIRC, the mammoth can fit a 10mn MWD + T2 cloak if you fit a rcu or something.
Tabernack en Chasteaux
Phoibe Enterprises
#6 - 2012-04-13 15:13:30 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... Wait... Which t1 industrial are you even able to fit a MWD on?


I think I managed to do it on an Itty 3 with a bit of creativity. I can't remember why.
Venn Draeys
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-04-14 00:09:32 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
... Wait... Which t1 industrial are you even able to fit a MWD on?



It's just an Iteron Mark III. No rigs. 1MN MWD, that's all it is.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-04-14 02:20:29 UTC
Yeah, that's not going to work at all. Industrials need 10mn MWDs.
Venn Draeys
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-04-16 01:49:25 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Yeah, that's not going to work at all. Industrials need 10mn MWDs.


I will work toward that, the tech 2, and the blockade runner. However, the setup I have now does work fairly well. I would say about 90% of the time someone tries to target me, I evade. The other 10% means I lose about a ship every two weeks.

So I wouldn't say that's not going to work at all. But I understand your point.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-04-16 02:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Venn Draeys wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Yeah, that's not going to work at all. Industrials need 10mn MWDs.


I will work toward that, the tech 2, and the blockade runner. However, the setup I have now does work fairly well. I would say about 90% of the time someone tries to target me, I evade. The other 10% means I lose about a ship every two weeks.

So I wouldn't say that's not going to work at all. But I understand your point.


And how exactly do you know someone is trying to target you?

It's infinitely more likely that only one out of 10 people you run into even bothers trying.


a 1mn microwarpdrive increases your speed by less than double. Assuming a t2 cloak, you'll be going at just under 50% of your base speed, which means assuming perfect execution you still have to align decloaked from 50% to 75% of your base speed. it helps - more than I thought it would anyway - but is still very risky.

a 10mn AB actually works better. A t2 10mn AB will increase your max speed by more than 2.5x. You'd have to accelerate only from 65% to 75% base speed if using a t2 cloak with this. There's still room to be locked, but it's very marginal.

if you overheat the propmod before cloaking (hard to do while simultaneously activating and cloaking, but possible) then you improve your chances even further.
Venn Draeys
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-04-16 14:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Venn Draeys
Kahega Amielden wrote:
And how exactly do you know someone is trying to target you?

It's infinitely more likely that only one out of 10 people you run into even bothers trying.


Because their icon on my overview is flashing. Unless I'm mistaken, that means they are in the process of targeting me. Some may not try to target me, sure, but some do. Some don't try. Some don't get a chance due to the timing of my cloak/warp. Some do initiate targeting but can't finish the lock. Some do finish, but don't do enough damage before I warp out. Some destroy my ship.

Kahega Amielden wrote:
a 1mn microwarpdrive increases your speed by less than double. Assuming a t2 cloak, you'll be going at just under 50% of your base speed, which means assuming perfect execution you still have to align decloaked from 50% to 75% of your base speed. it helps - more than I thought it would anyway - but is still very risky.

a 10mn AB actually works better. A t2 10mn AB will increase your max speed by more than 2.5x. You'd have to accelerate only from 65% to 75% base speed if using a t2 cloak with this. There's still room to be locked, but it's very marginal.

if you overheat the propmod before cloaking (hard to do while simultaneously activating and cloaking, but possible) then you improve your chances even further.


Very interesting point. Is there a way to calculate how much speed benefit you'll get from a MWD - other than just fitting one and taking it for a test drive? It says 500%, 600%, etc., but I assume the mass of the ship "weighs" in on the calculation? ;)
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#12 - 2012-04-16 14:38:13 UTC
Quote:
Because their icon on my overview is flashing. Unless I'm mistaken, that means they are in the process of targeting me. Some may not try to target me, sure, but some do. Some don't try. Some don't get a chance due to the timing of my cloak/warp. Some do initiate targeting but can't finish the lock. Some do finish, but don't do enough damage before I warp out. Some destroy my ship.


No. If there is a yellow box around their icon on the overview they have already locked you.


Quote:
Very interesting point. Is there a way to calculate how much speed benefit you'll get from a MWD - other than just fitting one and taking it for a test drive? It says 500%, 600%, etc., but I assume the mass of the ship "weighs" in on the calculation? ;)


Use a ship fitting tool - Pyfa or EFT (I like Pyfa better). In general an AB will slightly more than double a ship's speed, MWD will increase it by ~5-6x. Industrials are weird because they're sort of inbetween cruisers and frigates in mass (which is why you get any benefit at all from using 1mn MWDs).
Venn Draeys
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-04-16 19:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Venn Draeys
Kahega Amielden wrote:
No. If there is a yellow box around their icon on the overview they have already locked you.


Huh, I thought while it was glowing/flashing, they hadn't yet secured a lock, but were in the process of achieving a lock - then the box goes solid when the lock is achieved. But at any rate, that's how I know they are targeting me, and thus know that I am evading them.

Kahega Amielden wrote:
Use a ship fitting tool - Pyfa or EFT (I like Pyfa better). In general an AB will slightly more than double a ship's speed, MWD will increase it by ~5-6x. Industrials are weird because they're sort of inbetween cruisers and frigates in mass (which is why you get any benefit at all from using 1mn MWDs).


I will give that a try. Does an afterburner work just like a MWD with cloaking devices in that you can activate it simultaneously/right after activating the cloak?

I don't yet understand the affect Mass has on MWD/ABs. I assume it has to do with thrust? The thrust in "N" is much greater on AB than MWD.
Kale Kold
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-16 19:16:58 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
And how exactly do you know someone is trying to target you?

It's infinitely more likely that only one out of 10 people you run into even bothers trying.

You've never been to low sec have you! Lol

“Some people call me insane for the destruction I’ve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!” -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal.

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#15 - 2012-04-16 19:17:48 UTC
Quote:
Huh, I thought while it was glowing/flashing, they hadn't yet secured a lock, but were in the process of achieving a lock - then the box goes solid when the lock is achieved.


Which box?

Only the left most icon on the overview will change. When it flashes yellow you are locked. When it flashes red you are being engaged.

Quote:
I will give that a try. Does an afterburner work just like a MWD with cloaking devices in that you can activate it simultaneously/right after activating the cloak?

I don't yet understand the affect Mass has on MWD/ABs. I assume it has to do with thrust? The thrust in "N" is much greater on AB than MWD.


The thrust stat for identical-sized MWDs and ABs is the same - it affects how much of an agility penalty you take. The thrust is higher on the 10mn AB because it is a cruiser-sized module. Try fitting a 1mn AB and see how much faster you go (hint: It won't be very). That's because it's a frigate-sized mod and indies are closer to cruisers.

You can activate both MWDs and ABs for one cycle while cloaked.
Venn Draeys
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-04-16 19:43:08 UTC
Cool, thanks for the info!