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Please reduce interbus custom taxes

Author
Sigras
Conglomo
#41 - 2012-04-14 17:48:36 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Isk sink? Your argument holds no water.....i have 20 planets devoted to one p4...each planet producing a p2 i require wioth the final planet being a p3 to p4 planet. The transfers are expensive, im still making bills a month...with another simpler p4 in production on 5 planets...im paying lots of tax. This should be reduced as the isk just vaporizes being 'taxed' by an npc corp. With a projected profit of 2.5-3 bill/ 28 days... depending on how lazy i am, 17% of that goes into an abyss for no ones benefit.
I dont really care if people have thought of this before, it should be reduced. 11% would be more fair, or the standings based thing mentioned earlier.
Generating isk is what i do. Escrow trading is a lot easier and more isk. but i wanted a challenge and to learn to do the pi stuff..which i have
Hit me grammar pohlice.


ok, you dont understand what an isk sink is . . .

an isk sink is when isk is taken out of the game, IE to PI taxes, broker fees, sov bills, buying blueprints etc. Its when CCP takes money out of the game.

An isk faucet is when CCP spawns money into the game IE insurance, pirate bounties, mission rewards, incursion rewards etc.

What you get when you sell your PI product is isk, but it isnt from CCP its from another player, no isk is being spawned into the game.

TL;DR
there is a difference between isk spawning into the game and you getting more isk.
Adunh Slavy
#42 - 2012-04-14 18:08:41 UTC
POCOs should be introduced to high sec, and subject to war decs. Allow players to set what ever price they want.

Form a small group of corps to dominate a system, if one of you gets war deced, all join in and fight on the side of the defender. Expand your POCO empire, crush all competition.

One size fits all solutions, from governments, or developers, are always wrong when it comes to pricing. Let the players handle it.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#43 - 2012-04-14 18:16:09 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
POCOs should be introduced to high sec, and subject to war decs. Allow players to set what ever price they want.

Form a small group of corps to dominate a system, if one of you gets war deced, all join in and fight on the side of the defender. Expand your POCO empire, crush all competition.

One size fits all solutions, from governments, or developers, are always wrong when it comes to pricing. Let the players handle it.


To what end?

Hisec planets are crap.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-04-14 18:20:18 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Isk sink? Your argument holds no water.....i have 20 planets devoted to one p4...each planet producing a p2 i require wioth the final planet being a p3 to p4 planet. The transfers are expensive, im still making bills a month...with another simpler p4 in production on 5 planets...im paying lots of tax. This should be reduced as the isk just vaporizes being 'taxed' by an npc corp. With a projected profit of 2.5-3 bill/ 28 days... depending on how lazy i am, 17% of that goes into an abyss for no ones benefit.
I dont really care if people have thought of this before, it should be reduced. 11% would be more fair, or the standings based thing mentioned earlier.
Generating isk is what i do. Escrow trading is a lot easier and more isk. but i wanted a challenge and to learn to do the pi stuff..which i have
Hit me grammar pohlice.



The only part of this argument I agree with is that isk shouldn't just turn to vapor. NPC corporations & the taxes they collect should have a more meaningful impact on the game, since we the players, decide where we're going to be spending our money.

It's time for capsulers to hold NPC corporations & Factions accountable for their spending. How much money is going to concord to help speed up their response times for hostile activity? How much is going into drug & contraband enforcement? How much is going into our pockets?

I can tell you the answer to the last one -- Not enough!

If they aren't going to reduce their taxation, then we deserve to know where these taxes are going!
Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#45 - 2012-04-14 18:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
HoleySheet1 wrote:
EM are big-time haters since i taught them how to pvp.
If i put up a customs office it would probly last 5 minutes!!!!

So, in addition to not wanting to make friends of locals or work with allies, you also do not want your PI affected by purposefully pissing off people who have the capability of blowing POCOs up if they want to?

And this was supposed to convince me that you actually do get this MMOG aspect of things?

Twisted
Adunh Slavy
#46 - 2012-04-14 20:29:39 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:

To what end?

Hisec planets are crap.



To enrich the sandbox. If players want to fight over crap, let them. It's not as if people in the real world haven't been fighting over a worthless sliver of sand for thousands of years or anything.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#47 - 2012-04-14 22:35:20 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Do i want to put up with the drama of player owned custom offices? No way.

Well there is your problem right there.

Being able to set up a PoCo and doing PI is what makes lowsec profitable enough to live in. And it generated pew pew. New PI is the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

Leave the padded play pen of highsec, Set up a PoCo. Dodge the NPC tax. Defend it from other people who want your stuff. HTFU and play eve.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Auron Solaris
Karma's Call
#48 - 2012-04-15 04:41:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Auron Solaris
How would you all like to see the the New Eden economy crash, Isk Sinks are around for a reason and its purely to stop the market over heating. Currently as it stands CCP is having to manage the economy through outside intervention, that is why we are seeing taxes in NPC corps. So no these taxes don't benefit the eve economy in a way the average player would appreciate. many players expect these taxes to benefit them inside the eve economy, what they don't understand is it is, but in a way which is different to what they expect.

Currency is taken out of eves economy through means,such as IE to PI taxes, broker fees, sov bills, buying blueprints etc. These targets a wide variation of people, so in effect everyone is contributing to the isk sink. NPC corp taxes are pretty much high secs equivalent to sovereignty costs in alliance space.(I dont want to get into the nitty and gritty here, its only an example). if you pulled the npc corp taxes then it would be unfair on the people in low/null sec. suddenly we would see a community out cry and ccp might respond to the backlash by pulling the sov costs and possibly other similar taxes as well. In reality this is not going to happen and people like Holeysheet1 are just going to have to accept this.

The point to my contribution here is that CCP feeds currency into the New Eden Market, but to keep the economy in a healthy status it is forced to keep the economy on a leash. So this is why we are not going to see any changes on this particular issue, you HoleySheet1 are simply asking for an uncontrolled market which will undoubtedly fall into a period of uncertainty where its quite possible for the market to crash.

Since your such a large player in the economics of the game maybe you should look into the economic reports that ccp releases. maybe you should pay attention to these before posting on the forums, but yeah your lazy when you need to be.
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#49 - 2012-04-15 18:46:41 UTC
Ok. Maybe what im trying to do is reduce this isk sink...which isnt necessary. I sink my isk into ships and stuff. You are right..if one of the big producers of high end ships/mods stopped....eve"s market may crash. Right now im dependent on their moods. I was in a class 5 wh yesterday checking it out. The concentrations on the planets was stupendous...compared to my low sec planets. But then i thought of the logistical nightmare as i work full time...have a family...and a bunch of fluffy maine coons to take care of. Not to mention the pi is part of my passive isk generation. I prefer pvp.
If you're a professor of economics...go teach a class or something.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2012-04-15 20:13:57 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Ok. Maybe what im trying to do is reduce this isk sink...which isnt necessary. I sink my isk into ships and stuff. You are right..if one of the big producers of high end ships/mods stopped....eve"s market may crash. Right now im dependent on their moods. I was in a class 5 wh yesterday checking it out. The concentrations on the planets was stupendous...compared to my low sec planets. But then i thought of the logistical nightmare as i work full time...have a family...and a bunch of fluffy maine coons to take care of. Not to mention the pi is part of my passive isk generation. I prefer pvp.
If you're a professor of economics...go teach a class or something.



Buying stuff off of the market is NOT an isk sink. That isk is going to other players. an isk sink, like PI tax, is where isk is removed from circulation entirely. We need more isk sinks to combat inflation and to balance the isk generators like bounties.

Who am I kidding, you didn't listen to anyone else, so you won't listen to me.

tl;dr, build your own POCOs if you hate taxes that much.
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#51 - 2012-04-16 18:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: HoleySheet1
I listen to all..I just discount the useless. I dont have time to manage a customs office network. And quite honestly...i think im so liked in this game that any customs office i put up would be under siege in under 10 mins. Im still making multiple billions per month...maybe i shouldnt try to help my noob brothers and sisters. For them you should lower the taxes so they dont get turned off the game and try....maybe another game? i wanna see eve explode with numbers....so i can sell them everything
they need.
I remember climbing the isk mountain to the top, missions and mining doesnt cut it. There was some mention made about a reward for work ratio. Ive made tens of billions off escrow trading in the last few yrs...and that requires about 5-10 mins of dedication per day. You just have to know how to make isk. The interbus pi tax is too high and should be lowered for those of us who dont have the time for those things or to build in-game relationships with customs office owners
I do however remember a fitting quote : "The world needs ditch diggers son."
So..the big guys can mine their rarity 64 moon goo and prime arkonor....whereas the smaller "ditch-diggers" get their veldspar and low paying missions. Class system maybe
Incursions are just a cheap tack-on where i have to rely on others to make mediocre isk..please dont bring them up lol.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-04-16 18:33:56 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
I listen to all..I just discount the useless. I dont have time to manage a customs office network. And quite honestly...i think im so liked in this game that any customs office i put up would be under siege in under 10 mins. Im still making multiple billions per month...maybe i shouldnt try to help my noob brothers and sisters. For them you should lower the taxes so they dont get turned off the game and try....maybe another game? i wanna see eve explode with numbers....so i can sell them everything
they need.
I remember climbing the isk mountain to the top, missions and mining doesnt cut it. There was some mention made about a reward for work ratio. Ive made tens of billions off escrow trading in the last few yrs...and that requires about 5-10 mins of dedication per day. You just have to know how to make isk. The interbus pi tax is too high and should be lowered for those of us who dont have the time for those things or to build in-game relationships with customs office owners
I do however remember a fitting quote : "The world needs ditch diggers son."
So..the big guys can mine their rarity 64 moon goo and prime arkonor....whereas the smaller "ditch-diggers" get their veldspar and low paying missions. Class system maybe
Incursions are just a cheap tack-on where i have to rely on others to make mediocre isk..please dont bring them up lol.


Funny enough, Customs offices don't require much management, if you keep your prices low, (check the surrounding ones) you generally wont have much issues with the people that want to use them, Because of their upfront cost, its usually easier to leave them up or threaten the person that holds them if they don't lower taxes. it takes less time to talk to them in game then it does to respond to the forums.

Im not sure how lower poco taxes help noobs, but whatever.

you've said it yourself "you just need to kn ow how to make isk" Its not terribly difficult, it just involves learning something about one of the game mechanics. lowering the knowledge threshold doesn't help noobs at all. it causes them to stay noobs.

Im gonna quote you twice here,
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Ive made tens of billions off escrow trading in the last few yrs...and that requires about 5-10 mins of dedication per day. You just have to know how to make isk.

HoleySheet1 wrote:
The interbus pi tax is too high and should be lowered for those of us who dont have the time for those things


these sentences follow one another so its hardly out of context, but if you cant take 5-10 minutes to deal with poco taxes, what exactly are you playing in this game?

also its the r-32 moon thats the real isk maker, technium is not a r-64.
How do the big guys get to be big guys? they work their way up from ditch diggers, the same as everybody else. It wasn't handed to them so much as they went and looked for it.

Mostly, by taking the 5-10 minutes to build relationships.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#53 - 2012-04-16 18:39:06 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
We could possibly make them standings based.


I really don't get the idea of making everything standings based.

For one, it would undermine the point of POCOs. More importantly, I'm not sure mission grinding needs to be -more- present in game.


Slight troll there, there is no IB station you can go to thus no IB agents to grind with.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-04-16 18:50:14 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
We could possibly make them standings based.


I really don't get the idea of making everything standings based.

For one, it would undermine the point of POCOs. More importantly, I'm not sure mission grinding needs to be -more- present in game.


Slight troll there, there is no IB station you can go to thus no IB agents to grind with.



errr, ...

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_corporation.php?corporationID=1000148

I can talk to them ingame, i dunno .....

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#55 - 2012-04-16 22:34:05 UTC
Assumption about the rarity moon materials...i had a rarity 16 reaction and it was a great payoff. But i dont have a fleet of caps...so some ushra kahn fails came in and asked me to leave. I left, but not before taking out all assets and turning my 2 pos's into (fail) deathstars. Theyre still scared. I enjoyed moon mining....i might not have added YOUR killmail to my killboard had ushra fail left me be. Live and learn i guess lol.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-04-17 03:05:56 UTC
I recommend visiting low sec and getting your pi there. You may also look for PC owned PI it may be more valuable for you .

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2012-04-17 09:36:32 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Assumption about the rarity moon materials...i had a rarity 16 reaction and it was a great payoff. But i dont have a fleet of caps...so some ushra kahn fails came in and asked me to leave. I left, but not before taking out all assets and turning my 2 pos's into (fail) deathstars. Theyre still scared. I enjoyed moon mining....i might not have added YOUR killmail to my killboard had ushra fail left me be. Live and learn i guess lol.


Now tell us about your kickboxing girlfriend! Did she take the ferarri out today?

Roll
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#58 - 2012-04-17 16:14:54 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
I recommend visiting low sec and getting your pi there. You may also look for PC owned PI it may be more valuable for you .

shudup nub...u losers are waaaay innefective...remember the blue ice thing?..i thought u noobs were doing ur thing in jita on the 22nd...shows how much most of us care

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.

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