Ships & Modules

haha welp, if the original idea was to not have caps farming anoms that kind of backfired. That is of course what every single wormhole poster is concerned about, despite protests about archon sig and whatever.

He's actually saying he's not using x-instinct or halo or anything else theoretical. The basic point is that given EVE's mechanics you can't balance against a modified sig radius battleship AND not touch carriers: a carrier will get the benefit of the DPS reduction. I don't think you can manage to make this work using modified sig radius: I think you've got to go unmodified.

I meant a Hictor would not use a MWD with bubble up, not a dictor, I misread the question a bit.
A dictor though...yeah, they'd still get blapped if hit, that's true, but even a cruiser can do that. Dictors already rely on getting in and out before they can get hit, or on getting under the tracking.


I agree, and they won''t get hit unless they do that, and even if they do they'd take little damage even with the linear scaling.


It would help yes, but dictors can still get in and out before they can even be locked by caps, and it means your supercap fleet would be separated out of rep range of eachother so that anyone that does use dictors to keep you separated can drop on 1 part at a time. We killed 2 titans yesterday since they were 100k away from the supers that came in to save them, using only sub-caps.


Let's put this in perspective: With the tracking nerf titans will be getting, they'll have the same tracking as sieged dreads have had for ages, long before the supercap boost, and yet you never saw any sub-capital blapping dreads. In fact, sub-caps easily killed them, while the dreads could only shoot other caps. Now combine that extremely bad tracking with a huge damage penalty, even with the linear scaling system. The only anti-sub cap offensive ability that they'd still have that dreads don't would be their scan res, and I'd be fine with that getting nerfed to 10-12 or so (equivalent to a sieged dread). That would leave them with exactly the same sub-cap ability that current dreads do, but worse of due to the sig damage reduction, so unless you think dreads are currently OP against sub-caps, it isn't a problem.
Some ships really do need the MWD though, and that does change too much in the damage scaling (the sig bloom is and always has been just to compensate for the increased speed so that the MWD doesn't make them harder to hit), so I'd be fine with MWD sig bloom not being included in the sig damage calculation.


Wouldn't it be very easy to simply give the dreads the 50% sig radius reduction role bonus that I mentioned? That would at least leave them with the same tracking, even if they get (much less severe) damage penalties when actually hitting.



Greyscale, I do understand that you're starting to feel a bit stressed since it's supposed to be released very soon, but I think it's time to honor what you promised at the end of last year: Take the time that's needed, and if it's not done by the time it's supposed to be released, delay it. You have the launcher now, enabling patching whenever, so you can add it in a bit later if you don't have enough time. Even if the changes were ready now today and moved to sisi, that wouldn't leave enough time to look for bugs.

They aren't now, but they absolutely will be in the future if you do this.

Why? Bumping the carrier/dread sig up a bit is out of the question? why? It wouldn't even take much either.

If anyone actually did that, just target paint them and laugh at the halo implant carrier pilot pod killmail. This is probably the one case where "use TPs" is actually a good reply.

Anyone posting about dreads is just a wormhole anom farmer and should own up and admit it. They're intended as anti-cap/struct platforms and will continue to be fine on that front.

edit: Two Step dosing in some reality a few posts above, yay

Today...No, they don't, but it's something that people would start playing with if it would give them a benefit. I just checked my triage Archon fit (meaning it can't be target painted since it's EW immune), and even with no changes to it, a Loki bonus is all that's needed to get it down to 1893 sig, which would give it a ~10% damage reduction. Since you can carry boosters around and just use the one best suiting the situation, I'd definitely bring a strong x-instict along, and with that added I'd be down to 1609 sig, a 35% damage reduction with your system. Since halo aren't that expensive IIRC (may be wrong tbh), I'd then consider those (especially in low sec), which would take me to 1276 sig, providing a 59% damage reduction.
Maybe I could even get a Rag bonus instead of the Loki, and I'd be down to 1230 sig and a 62% damage reduction.

Considering that you seem confident that you can deliver this change in only the days remaining before the patch, why not go with linear scaling, and if it turns out it's still a problem (won't be), change it to exponential scaling. With the launcher, that should be easy now.



Yeah, that works until the dread siege or the carrier triage.

thanks for pointing out the entire problem.

loosing them as PvE ship is annoying, but we'll work around it. i estimate about 1 week before we adjust to the new pve rules and work with it just fine.

however, as a cap destruction platform the use for the dread is gone in wormhole space. especially with the problem when carriers are combined with halo sets and x-instinct. what you fail to realise is that a single capital is a massive force multiplier in a space where the movement of capitals is very very limited, and a big fleet consist of 20-30 people. could the combination of x-instinct and a halo set be balanced out by target painters? im sure it can. though im not sure if that is entirely or just to a point where the dread can just hit it barely. because of there is so many things you have to bring to support that dreadnaught, and all the limitations, its questionable if in those circumstances its still viable to use the little mass you have on each wormhole for a ship that can only attack IF the other side fields a carrier and you can get the tp's on it fast enough, damage down fast enough before the other fleets breaks you down. as it stands i would probebly say that dreads would no longer be active ships in fleets. just used to bash down a pos. and i think we all agreed that noone likes shooting structures. but congrats, you made a ship from a nice pvp ship to just that....a structure grinder

You can't use TPs against sieged/triage capitals, to the best of my knowledge.

and yes, twostep makes a valid argument about the PvE thing, which is why i don't care about it at all. 50% dmg reduction vs sleepers is not gonna kill us, even if that winds up being necessary. What i'm concerned about is killing enemy capitals and dreads becoming useless in that role with these changes.

in wh space most fights are won on cap warfare already, so nothing new there. in empire space there are enough caps to make a cap killer viable



so the best idea is to first create a nerf for a ship that effects a ship that didnt need a nerf, in fact actually got boosted at the last patch. and when the nerf isnt working out as originally thought we change even more to make it work anyway, even though the original reason for the nerf had nothing to do with the ship that is getting hit by the nerfbat, but now gets some compensation to level out a problem that was kind of collateral to begin with

can i just mention this might not be the most efficient way of doing things.

want to nerf titan tracking? do so. but ive never heard anyone say dreadnaughts are overpowered.