EVE General Discussion

If something is too easy compared to the rest, causing imbalance, CCP should do some smart programming making it balance itself, instead of trying to fix it manually.

Mechanics that measure completion times and rates, comparing them to the other races and modifying it on the fly. Minmatar plexes too easy? Fine! The game itself will just add more and more ships until the metrics are comparable to that of the Amarr and balance is achieved. And if at some points adding or removing ships lacks the finesse for the final finetuning, just include the rewards as well.

Added bonus: this will then also act as a stabilizer if for some external reason suddenly a big imbalance is created (like when Wolvesbrigade deserted from the Caldari FW), by, over a few weeks, increasing the Caldari rewards and toning down the Gallente NPC in plexes, until more new Caldari are attracted to the FW and it stabilizes itself again.

I'm certain that players wouldn't complain so much about Caldari EWAR being such a *****, if the rewards were better and the Gallente had to chew through say 25% more ships. This way the game itself will find that perfect balance between risk, effort and reward (and it will be damn interesting to see where that equilibrium lies).

Though the ONLY way to balance this, is by a smart system that balances itself by measuring how popular an activity is, how many participants, how quick they are completed, how much money is made on average etc. This simply can't be done by hand.

WARNING: CCP should NEVER try to achieve balance by making everything the same. And they WILL do that here I'm afraid if CSM doesn't pay attention, because it's the 'easiest' way.

PS

Personally I dislike the idea of FW being the distributor of datacores. Yes, they are currently a 'broken' ATM, but it they belong to the NPC research corporations and the players that are into research and production. They deserve their own solution and mechanic and shouldn't be made part of FW, just to wipe the datacore problem under the rug and make FW matter for the rest of EVE.

Make FW matter by giving them big benefits like a FW-only station with research and manufactory boosts. No charter-costs for POS in high-sec. Insurance-for-LP, stuff that gives them a serious advantage over non-FW, but never dominant access to something as crucial and arbitrary as datacores (and Tech-moons and T2 BPO's should already have taught CCP how important it is to make sure there are always more ways to get something). Exploration may yield some additional datacores, but it's neglible in the grand scheme of T2 production.

As for the reference CCP made about Data Cores:

CCP said they were looking into maybe increasing the amount of Research Point's needed for civilians to redeem Data Cores and maybe even have a small ISK fee included with the redemption.

As a civilian I have a very big problem with that considering there was a lot of time spent training up skills and building up standings to access high level R&D Agents. As such, I don't think there should be any change done to the civilian cost and I'm certain a lot of other civilians would also agree with that.

FYI - Data Cores from R&D Agents are not a big ISK printing press. The amount of ISK gained from them in market is a low return when compared to the amount of time it takes to aquire a sizable amount of Data Cores. This is not something that enables players to get rich quick. I don't know where CCP got the idea that it's an ATM machine but they are obviously mistaken.

CCP said they are looking to increase rewards for Factional Warfare players by adding Data Cores to the FW LP Store at a reduced rate compared to the civilian cost. Right now the cost of items in the FW LP Store is roughly about 60% of the regular LP Store cost.

I don't see a problem with FW LP Stores selling Data Cores at a reduced rate compared to the civilian cost. However, I think the FW Data Cores should also require the appropriate Science skills for redemption. If not, I imagine there will be some rage threads posted about that.

I think the amarr missions are pretty much perfect. The minmatar rats use lots of painters and missiles so most level 4 missions can not be soloed in a sb.

Painters and a web tower or 2 will prevent the stealth bomber issue. Really just make all the rats like the minmatar rats and missions will be fine. "Fine" meaning you can make half as much as you can in high sec incursions.

I guess we as players don't really know much more about what you and ccp are looking for, and thanks to the nda you can't share much more with us.

Well, I thought I was pretty direct in asking for what I'm looking for But apparently this isn't as big a deal as players previously made it out to be, because I haven't received much feedback over the weekend.

If there IS something bugging you guys that's NPC-related though, send me a mail, let me know what's up. I am at the mercy of the rest of you in the other factions, if I don't receive feedback there's not much I can do about that issue.

I want to add my view point for this discussion.

These changes are not good as whole, some may be good some not.

But the fact that reasons for these changes come from what players want and what they think is good. People like Hans Jagerblitzen want these changes but they do not really know what they are asking for. They do not know the history, they do not see the future coming after these changes.

Most of reasons as just like mantra that has been reapeated 2 years, 'people in FW are just grinding missions'.

So people want to change it. But why people grind missions?

History: no one did missions in FW at start, Caldari militia who is now grinding only missions took all systems in the past. What happened after that, there was no systems to take no pvp in plexes so people started to do missions because those were good income after Ankh had them boosted because players wanted it !

Players wanted good income from missions.

Another reason is that CCP 'balanced' plex warfare to the point where it was not working anymore at all, it was easier to take system back after loss than defend it.

So changes made by CCP to direction that players want ruined FW totally.

Players wanted something that really did not work on long term.

Now player want some more changes, i doubt it will end any better.

I hope that CCP stops listening what players want, because players just do not know what they want and they do not understand what small changes can do in big scale.

Regarding Gallente missions, the jamming is an issue but it does not make the L4 missions un-soloable, since a gimped fit Ishtar can solo them.

The issue is that if you fail to deploy drones before the first jam, you can be waiting upto 5 minutes or more before the rats will miss a cycle. The problem with Caldari NPC jamming is it can't really be mitigated since even with Spur sets (increased sensor strength) or ECCM (which you can't use anyway coz you need all your mids for tank), the NPCs will still pretty much permajam you for 20 seconds per cycle often with 2-3 jamming ships at staggered cycles so even if 1 ship misses a jam the others probably wont during hat 20s cycle cooldown.

That being said I dont think it is right or fair that any L4's are soloable in a bomber - that makes it too easy, and I'd hate for Gallente FW LP to plummet in value to the same as Minmatar, Caldari or Amarr LP. Navy Geddons at roughly the same price of an Abbadon is wrong IMHO and pretty much highlights the oversupply due to ease of LP grind.

The other factions really need their L4's changing so they cannot be soloed in a bomber if you ask me. Gimping a HAC or some such makes more sense for soloing a L4s at least because it adds a little more risk in terms of cost (for a loss) into the equation. The dream obviously would be a pvp fit HAC or something being viable for L4s but then you're limited by HAC roles since I doubt my Deimos will ever make as good a mission ship as a Cerberus or Ishtar for example. Mores the pity.

Regarding ECM Jamming in particular, the NPCs that do this pretty much guarantee noone will stick around to fight if pvp finds you () under these conditions in missions (or often in plexes afaik).

My suggestion to CCP would be that ECCM and sensor strength rather than just reduce the percentage chance of jamming, should ALSO reduce the 20 second jamming cycle time. For example, doubling you sensor strength should make the jamming cycle reduce to 10s, quadrupling your sensor strength is down to 5s jam cycles... etc etc. This could be scaled so frigates take shorter jams and BS take longer jams initially anyway, which would actually go some way to balancing jamming as an Ewar which is still largely overpowered in smaller gang/solo fights.

Hope this info helps. Cheers.

Lets nerf damps too, I don't want to gimp my ship too by fitting 3 sebos. In fact, lets remove all ewar/logistics from the game so theres not such thing as force multipliers

I will say I certainly appreciate you using these forums hans. Using forums that are open to all the players allows them all to give their input. Just contacting certain ceos of certain corps or alliances is a poor way to get feedback imo. Not all the feedback will be useful but I don't think the feedback is much improved when the person posting it is a ceo of a corp.

Also please address the bugs with the plex mechanics. They don't respawn as they should.

This is exactly what concerns me. I want to make sure the PvE content, whether its NPC's in missions, or NPC's in plexing, does not enable FW pilots to obtain rewards without also placing themselves at high risk for PvP. I want the Inty / Bomber combo wiped from the scene.



I've suggested as much to them.



CCP very much is trying to make sure that PvP and plexing pays better than missions. I don't think that can be done fully without killing the farmability of missions, that's why I'm asking for details about NPC E-war issues, since I haven't run missions for all four factions before.

The reason I'm asking for feedback about missions isn't because its a low priority issue, its because I'm quite happy with what I'm seeing on the LP-for-PvP kills, and LP-for-Plexing. Both look awesome, they will definitely reward pilots very nicely if you're a full-time PvP'er or plexer and don't want to run missions.

In general, the message that I am sending CCP is this: Rewards are great, but there is still a lack of risk in the upper level missions and upper level FW dungeons. Unless they take care of this risk issue, and kill inty / bomber farming, than adding more rewards to FW only compounds our existing problems (watered down markets, non-PvP ing alts everywhere). Certain rewards like datacores are going to specifically entice more alt-farmers (even if it pays nicely to be out PvP-ing), which is fine with me as long as those farmers are vulnerable. That is the reason I am making sure to push for adequate NPC balancing.

Otherwise, those earning their living by killing the enemy faction still have to compete with the mission farming crowd, if we can put a damper on the easiness of missioning for LP, it adds more value to the LP earned by those that are getting it by killing and capturing territory. It's all related, in my opinion.