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Buy Sell game mechanics flawed
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Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#21 - 2012-04-15 18:58:47 UTC
You're assuming that it wasn't a design decision.

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Adunh Slavy
#22 - 2012-04-15 19:38:20 UTC
Lauren Hellfury wrote:
You're assuming that it wasn't a design decision.


Stupid design doesn't make bad code good.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#23 - 2012-04-15 22:15:39 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
OP enters buy order at over 100X market price. OP must have ignored market warning for buying at over 50% region retail price. OP petitions, OP gonna be sad with CCP response.

I once bought 3 Plex for 30M each on 3 contracts from same guy before I actually messaged him and told him what he was doing. <--- Kind of feel happy/sad about the message to him, I wonder how many more he would have placed?

Plan better, make sure your will is high and you're using mind skills when placing buy/sell orders.


Nope, no warning, its random, and yes contracts are a great thing to scan, especially as soon as they apear you look for mistakes, thus make what 1-2B per day in Jita? mindless work, not my kind of thing.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#24 - 2012-04-15 22:21:27 UTC
Lauren Hellfury wrote:
You're assuming that it wasn't a design decision.


at this current point and time, we are all assuming, hopefully doing something positive while were at it.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#25 - 2012-04-15 22:22:46 UTC
I'd love to read the text of your petition. "CCP THE MARKET SYSTEM WHICH HAS WORKED THIS WAY FOR YEARS IS BUGGED!"

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#26 - 2012-04-15 22:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
corestwo wrote:
I'd love to read the text of your petition. "CCP THE MARKET SYSTEM WHICH HAS WORKED THIS WAY FOR YEARS IS BUGGED!"


Oh I bet you would.

P.S.

Also forgot to add, the Market history tab is Not accurate, It does not report all items being sold LOW I.E. .01 isk and High-ball sales.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-04-16 02:21:20 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Lauren Hellfury wrote:
You're assuming that it wasn't a design decision.


Stupid design doesn't make bad code good.


It's not bad code, it's just simple code. What you want is a new feature.

Like someone else pointed out, the whole reason for the current system is this

Sell orders:
1) 3 isk 100k units
2) 3.01isk 100k units
3) 3.02 isk 100k units

If you want to purchase 300k units, you can either do 3 separate purchase for the listed prices, or do one large purchase of 3.02 for 300k units.

This is a FEATURE. It makes purchasing stuff easier.

What you want is an extra feature. You want it so you can go in and put 4isk for 300k units, and have the program purchase each order at their listed prices "up to" 4 isk or your selected volume, whichever comes first.

I do agree that this automation would help, but it isn't "bad" code, it's just simpler code.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#28 - 2012-04-16 02:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
Barakach wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Lauren Hellfury wrote:
You're assuming that it wasn't a design decision.


Stupid design doesn't make bad code good.


It's not bad code, it's just simple code. What you want is a new feature.

Like someone else pointed out, the whole reason for the current system is this

Sell orders:
1) 3 isk 100k units
2) 3.01isk 100k units
3) 3.02 isk 100k units

If you want to purchase 300k units, you can either do 3 separate purchase for the listed prices, or do one large purchase of 3.02 for 300k units.

This is a FEATURE. It makes purchasing stuff easier.

What you want is an extra feature. You want it so you can go in and put 4isk for 300k units, and have the program purchase each order at their listed prices "up to" 4 isk or your selected volume, whichever comes first.

I do agree that this automation would help, but it isn't "bad" code, it's just simpler code.


What if your internet lagged out, the decimal point. didnt come out as intended and you bought everything for 30200 per unit?

How about, keeping that feature but giving people the option to always enable warnings or just keep it at random.
better yet, set the limit that one could overpay by a certain amount related to per unit cost.
Or even better yet allow people to set that % Manually or at-least enable or disable the feature.
Adunh Slavy
#29 - 2012-04-16 04:50:25 UTC
Barakach wrote:

Excuses



CCP decides to do something else, something unexpected from the way the rest of the world approaches such things. Don't mess with user expectations - doing that is stupid design, it is bad code.


"Click Exit to enter" ... that's not bad code, it was just simpler to type exit because there is one less character.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Johnny Frecko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-16 11:28:58 UTC
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/06/citigroup-trading-error-f_n_566623.html

real life trade mechanics are also broken.

CCP, FIX REAL LIFE MARKETS.
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#31 - 2012-04-16 13:58:49 UTC
I personally LIKE the order system. It adds some depth to the market, I think if you took out the potential for screw-ups, you would remove a lot of the interest from the market game.
Bath Sheeba
Another Success Story
#32 - 2012-04-16 15:09:47 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Barakach wrote:

Excuses



CCP decides to do something else, something unexpected from the way the rest of the world approaches such things. Don't mess with user expectations - doing that is stupid design, it is bad code.


"Click Exit to enter" ... that's not bad code, it was just simpler to type exit because there is one less character.


Hmmmm, I suppose on XP the "Clisk the START button to shutdown" also bothered you?

This is not bad code. This may be a poor design decision, but the code works correctly.

Think of it like this:
I walk into a farmer's market and see several vendors selling eggs.
first one: 3 dozen for $3 each
second one: 1 dozen for $3.25 each
third one: 4 dozen for $3.35 each

I want 8 dozen. I could go to each one and say I will buy your eggs at your price or I could just yell to all three "I will buy all your eggs at 3.35 each"
If I choose the latter, do you think the guy selling for $3 each is going to say, "oh no I could never sell my eggs for 3.35!"
Nope. He will happily take the greater price.

Same here.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#33 - 2012-04-16 15:29:10 UTC
You placed a buy order for a cerb for a given amount of isk. The market filled your order exactly as you entered it. You got a cerb, and you lost the exact amount of isk you entered into the buy order. What part of that isn't working?

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Adunh Slavy
#34 - 2012-04-16 16:35:13 UTC
Bath Sheeba wrote:

Think of it like this:
I walk into a farmer's market and see several vendors selling eggs.
first one: 3 dozen for $3 each
second one: 1 dozen for $3.25 each
third one: 4 dozen for $3.35 each

I want 8 dozen. I could go to each one and say I will buy your eggs at your price or I could just yell to all three "I will buy all your eggs at 3.35 each"
If I choose the latter, do you think the guy selling for $3 each is going to say, "oh no I could never sell my eggs for 3.35!"
Nope. He will happily take the greater price.

Same here.



I do hope you're not in charge of purchasing for a large corporation.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Kalea Hashur
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-04-16 18:19:17 UTC
When I write a check IRL to pay some bills or buy something on the interwebs, I make darned sure the figures are correct before I send the check or press submit. Maybe you should too! Friends don't let friends market drunk. Non-friends... well they'd encourage it.
Adunh Slavy
#36 - 2012-04-16 18:20:45 UTC
Kalea Hashur wrote:




Excuses

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#37 - 2012-04-16 18:29:12 UTC
Whining about market orders as a trader is like complaining that rats are too tough. Learn2Market.
Adunh Slavy
#38 - 2012-04-16 21:17:45 UTC
OllieNorth wrote:
Whining about market orders as a trader is like complaining that rats are too tough. Learn2Market.



Whining about whiners is being an ass.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Kalea Hashur
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-04-16 22:02:07 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Kalea Hashur wrote:




Excuses


Yes, I'm sorry I'd like people to engage their brains before clicking things.

You've not even suggested an improvement. Limit orders? People should be able to list whatever they want for whatever price they want.

An order for a Raven for 1.00 ISK? Sure. I've seen 1 unit of Trit selling for millions of ISK (which could have been trial characters transferring money).

If I try to sell a unit of Trit for a million, you want the EVE Market system to... what, say I can't do it? What is the limit then? A unit for 10,000? 1,000? We don't need the system to babysit us.
Tradelita
Ducats in Buckets
#40 - 2012-04-16 22:03:32 UTC
I have made plenty of pricing mistakes in modifying orders, but because I always hit Tab instead of Enter, I've never been burned by it. Every so often someone sells to / buys from me under / over my asking price, and it's always nice. I've never considered that it is a design flaw. People should be able to put up orders for any price they wish. If the ability to do this were removed, I'd be very annoyed every time I wanted to buy out a lot of something that was spread out among lots of orders.