These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Should CCP stop comunicating?

First post
Author
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1 - 2011-09-28 15:54:50 UTC
"We watch what you do, not what you say"

If you really think that's true, and nothing CCP says has value, do you think they should say anything?

Its odd, as I see two lines of thought going on in the forums. One is the above, and the other is CCP does not communicate enough. But as soon as CCP does communicate, they get slapped down with the above statement.

So what do we want them to do?

My suggestion:


Say what you do.
Do what you say.
We watch both.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Razin
The Scope
#2 - 2011-09-28 16:01:11 UTC
Good communication is also 'doing'. That said, changing the past and being non-committal about the future isn't good communication.
Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-09-28 16:08:16 UTC
I agree with your "being transparent and honest." policy.

That being said, we must understand that we all make mistakes and bad choices , including CCP, and must find a constructive way to fix and repair what we can and then move on.

We can't glower over past mistakes, take what we've learn from it and make a better choice next time.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#4 - 2011-09-28 16:10:28 UTC
Come on guys.


Soon™

Where I am.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#5 - 2011-09-28 16:14:21 UTC
Communication is needed to evaluate the ratio between promises made/promises kept.

It's all part of the watching what you do.
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#6 - 2011-09-28 16:22:46 UTC
Communication about upcoming features can be tricky and it is tricky for a number of reasons. We want to provide you with extremely accurate information based on realistic time frames and expectation and want to avoid promising something is coming 'soon' and that soon going on far too long.

The Community team will continue to communicate as often as we can on as many topics as we can. Sometimes we are going to be vague as we can take away the impact of a major blog and we want to avoid that. We are not doing this to upset anyone but rather to ensure that our messages are not misleading or incorrect.

I hope this helps, at least a little Smile
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#7 - 2011-09-28 16:28:16 UTC
Saying that a blog with the desired information will be published in a week or three, then 2 weeks later such a blog shows up and does in fact contain the information would be "Say what you do, do what you say".

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

mkint
#8 - 2011-09-28 16:48:06 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Saying that a blog with the desired information will be published in a week or three, then 2 weeks later such a blog shows up and does in fact contain the information would be "Say what you do, do what you say".

Where, on the other hand, saying a blog making a major announcement is coming within the next week, and then having a blog that says little more than "hi" is not a major announcement and is not doing what you say.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#9 - 2011-09-28 16:51:14 UTC
I think the only mistake here is interpreting the phrase to be unilaterally applied to absolutely every last vestige of the company from top to bottom.

i.e. just because some suit says he won't be swayed by popular sentiment more so than empirical subscriber data, does not mean the company wholly and unequivocally follows said doctrine at every possible turn in every conceivable situation.

TLDR
It is a phrase used in certain context, and should be treated as such.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.

Malcom Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-28 16:59:50 UTC
I think this sort of thing is symptomatic of the lack of trust that a significant number of players feel towards CCP. If CCP could be trusted to deliver on what they say they will deliver on, and not to say they will do things that they later do not do, then there will be a lot less of the 'we watch what you do not what you say' kicking around.


I think its less about the ammount of communication and more about the trust.

.

Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#11 - 2011-09-28 17:09:15 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Communication about upcoming features can be tricky and it is tricky for a number of reasons. We want to provide you with extremely accurate information based on realistic time frames and expectation and want to avoid promising something is coming 'soon' and that soon going on far too long.

The Community team will continue to communicate as often as we can on as many topics as we can. Sometimes we are going to be vague as we can take away the impact of a major blog and we want to avoid that. We are not doing this to upset anyone but rather to ensure that our messages are not misleading or incorrect.

I hope this helps, at least a little Smile


You prefer being vague over being misleading or inacurate. Got that.


Heres a tip. Create a list of EVERYTHING being worked on, then put a status next to it, and release them in monthly reports. STO does this in something called Engineering Report.

Example:

Quote:


Ship Spinning: Being worked on
Hybrid rebalance: Under research
Supercapital rebalancing: Under research
New Cyno Effect: Being finished
Racial CQ: Being finished
Estabilishments: Being worked on

etc.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#12 - 2011-09-28 17:09:46 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Communication about upcoming features can be tricky and it is tricky for a number of reasons. We want to provide you with extremely accurate information based on realistic time frames and expectation and want to avoid promising something is coming 'soon' and that soon going on far too long.

The Community team will continue to communicate as often as we can on as many topics as we can. Sometimes we are going to be vague as we can take away the impact of a major blog and we want to avoid that. We are not doing this to upset anyone but rather to ensure that our messages are not misleading or incorrect.

I hope this helps, at least a little Smile



ARGHGGHAGHAHGHAHG

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

New forums suck when they destroy my post for having detected what they thought were html tags. Idiots.

Anyway, I was trying to say I prefer updates that tell us what you're working on versus updates that are completely devoid of content other than feel-good statements like "we hear you" and "watch this space". The intelligent crowd can tell the difference between a promise and an update on progress.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#13 - 2011-09-28 17:11:20 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:

Heres a tip. Create a list of EVERYTHING being worked on, then put a status next to it, and release them in monthly reports. STO does this in something called Engineering Report.

Example:

Quote:


Ship Spinning: Being worked on
Hybrid rebalance: Under research
Supercapital rebalancing: Under research
New Cyno Effect: Being finished
Racial CQ: Being finished
Estabilishments: Being worked on

etc.


Exactly this.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2011-09-28 17:26:27 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Communication about upcoming features can be tricky and it is tricky for a number of reasons. We want to provide you with extremely accurate information based on realistic time frames and expectation and want to avoid promising something is coming 'soon' and that soon going on far too long.

The Community team will continue to communicate as often as we can on as many topics as we can. Sometimes we are going to be vague as we can take away the impact of a major blog and we want to avoid that. We are not doing this to upset anyone but rather to ensure that our messages are not misleading or incorrect.

I hope this helps, at least a little Smile


The only way you could do it without catching any of the flack you are catching now is something like this;

Announce it the day before it comes out, release it 100% working, and do it during normal downtime. Anything short of that will be ridiculed by the (lol) thousands of people who "have unsubbed but are keeping this account active till 2017 because thats how far ahead I am payed up".

Since that's not possible I propose that CCP is on the right track to providing the most realistic 'recipe' to this clusterfuck.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2011-09-28 17:32:34 UTC
I completely understand where you are coming from so ok.

You guys can expect to see an announcement coming, within the next week hopefully, which will cover the next two major patches. As can be seen in Torfi's blog, this will include the return of ship spinning, a new cyno effect and fixes and changes to flying in space.

There are more announcements and Dev Blogs to come about great features we are rolling out which are directly as a result of what you, the players, and the CSM have asked for.

Yes, I know you would like more meat on the bones and it will be coming over the next few weeks. In the mean time, we will keep up communication as often as possible.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#16 - 2011-09-28 17:33:05 UTC
Here is a direct example taken from STO's monthly engineering report (with features removed. I don't want to advertise STO features, but rather their developers methodology):

STO Senior Executive Producer;3708741 wrote:
[FONT="Arial Black"]In Testing[/FONT]
These items are currently being tested on either an internal test server or on PUBLIC TEST SERVER

  • stuff
  • stuff
  • stuff
  • More stuff for stuff
  • stuff! That does this stuff
  • New stuff for players to use stuff for stuff.
  • stuff
  • stuff for social stuff
  • improvements on stuff
  • Ability to create stuff
  • Updated stuff
  • New stuff
  • Fan Designed stuff


[FONT="Arial Black"]Under Investigation[/FONT]
These issues are hot topics in the Quality Asurance and Customer Service world. It by no means represents all the bugs we're looking into, but instead new issues that I want you to know we are on top of.

  • stuff issues
  • stuff crashes
  • stuff not working properly with the stuff
  • stuff
  • Performance issues when using stuff
  • stuff cannot be managed if the stuff leaves the stuff
  • Duplicate stuff on stuff
  • stuff issues with destroying the stuff too early in stuff.
  • Incorrect stuff appearing in stuff.
  • Issues with stuff during or immediately after stuff
  • stuff issues with the stuff
  • Ability to copy and paste stuff in the stuff
  • Ability to stuff from stuff to see more details instead of having stuff as stuff


[FONT="Arial Black"]In Development[/FONT]
These items are actively being worked on by the development team.

  • New stuff including but not limited to these stuff: stuffstuffstuffstuffstuffstuffstuff
  • stuff and stuff for stuff
  • Adding stuff to stuff (stuff, stuff, stuff, stuff and stuff)
  • Feature stuff – remaining stuff
  • Feature stuff new stuff
  • New stuff with Feature stuff (stuff)
  • Improvements to stuff (stuff now looks awesome and yes we are investigating stuff)
  • Adding ability to stuff a friend and/or improving stuff
  • Removing the stuff that you can only stuff on stuff or stuff
  • Additional stuff for stuff
  • Adding stuff (investigating what we can do here)
  • Removing the concept of stuff and simply giving everyone stuff you can use to stuff
  • Updates to stuff and stuff
  • Separating the ability to stuff and stuff in stuff to stuff
  • stuff 2.0 with new “stuff” and complete listing of all stuff (similar to the stuff stuff but for all stuff in the game)
  • More stuff and stuff specific stuff types


[FONT="Arial Black"]In Design Discussions[/FONT]
The lead designers are currently discussing these features for implementation in an upcoming update

  • Additional stuff and implementing Feedback on stuff
  • New stuff
  • stuff: stuff (most likely coming after next expansion)
  • Considering stuff versions of existing stuff
  • New stuff and/or new mini-stuff
  • Assigning stuff as stuff stuff stuff
  • stuff stuff conversions (converting stuff to a stuff version)
  • stuff stuff stuff stuff stuff
  • Adding stuffstuff to the game that stuff specific stuff
  • Repurposing some stuff as new stuff
  • More stuff such as the stuff and a stuff
  • Improved stuff stuff stuff
  • More stuff after stuff
  • One stuff to rule them all (eliminating stuff entirely)


Considered for Future Expansions

  • Redesign for stuff (and stuff in general)
  • Restructuring stuff to be more customizable
  • Moving stuff and stuff stuff options off of the stuff and putting them in the stuff so they can be part of your stuff
  • New versions of stuff
  • Opening up stuff stuff (e.g. Stuff Stuff)
  • Adding more stuff specific customization options
  • Removing restriction on stuff
  • Allowing stuff size to automatically scale with the size of the stuff
  • Adding a functioning stuff for stuff stuff (allows you to switch to your stuff without returning to stuff)
  • Adding ability to display stuff as part of stuff
  • stuff customization adding stuff by default
  • stuff stuff
  • Ability to construct new stuff at stuff
  • stuff stuff thing
  • Customizable stuff
  • More stuff (stuff, stuff, stuff and stuff things)
  • New advanced stuff for stuff/stuff
  • Converting stuff to things and vice versa


Beyond next summer expansion

  • More Remastered stuff
  • More stuff
  • More stuff
  • Improved stuff with stuff
  • More Ministuff
  • More stuff for stuff
  • Additional stuff (stuff, stuff...)
  • New stuff Features
  • Plenty more stuff stuff


Reminder: Just because something is on the list doesn't mean it is a lock and its going to be made available as is. If you have specific issues or questions about upcoming content, feel free to post your questions below.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#17 - 2011-09-28 17:40:33 UTC
So is doing stuff like that hard for CCP? Hope you take the example in your heart and consider a change in methodology to something more along the lines of that stuff i just showed you.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#18 - 2011-09-28 17:45:11 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
So is doing stuff like that hard for CCP? Hope you take the example in your heart and consider a change in methodology to something more along the lines of that stuff i just showed you.


While they are taking notes from faildevs they should check the ArenaNet diaries.

Just sayin.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#19 - 2011-09-28 17:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Vincent Athena wrote:
"We watch what you do, not what you say"



Why would you put that as a quote?

It was never said to us. Go back and find the actual internal email and see what was actually said. Not to us, but to other CCP employees. And if you lived through the whole fiasco it produced, you might, like myself, agree with the sentiment.

That said. I do think the communication could be better, of course. But like any business they need to set a direction and can't be swayed every time some butt hurt whiner that that plays the forum more than the game gets on their soapbox. Nothing would ever get done.

They should be telling us what's in the pipe and that's it. Sure, stick a feedback thread in here to placate the self important armchair game designers that know more than they do. But ignore it completely and continue with the plan they have set up. Switching direction every two weeks to satisfy people who will then find some other thing to whine about is a sure end to the game.

For real.

Mr Epeen Cool
Vin Hellsing
#20 - 2011-09-28 17:49:23 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
I completely understand where you are coming from so ok.

You guys can expect to see an announcement coming, within the next week hopefully, which will cover the next two major patches. As can be seen in Torfi's blog, this will include the return of ship spinning, a new cyno effect and fixes and changes to flying in space.

There are more announcements and Dev Blogs to come about great features we are rolling out which are directly as a result of what you, the players, and the CSM have asked for.

Yes, I know you would like more meat on the bones and it will be coming over the next few weeks. In the mean time, we will keep up communication as often as possible.


You're not going to drop Incarna development cold-turkey, are you? If you do, that's another example of "half-assed" implementation to add to the list of charges.

Plus, I would hold CCP to task over it, because it was one of the main reasons why I came back to EVE.
123Next page