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CCP: Mining needs a complete revamp. An absolute, total makeover.

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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-15 02:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
Recent and upcoming changes have shed light on an issue few have ever really cared about, but now it's time to have a serious discussion about it.

The bots, the drones, Pax Amarria, and the removal of Meta 0 loot from missions have turned Mining into one of the most integral aspects of this game's economy.

People can skirt around the issue all they want by proposing buffs to the Hulk's tankability or making mining more profitable, but the end result stays the same. Mining is bar-none the single most boring activity in this game. It is also the only profession in this game that encourages you to not actively play the game to do it. Profit alone will eventually prove insufficient to persuade players to continue mining for the long term.

When CCP has to ask its players what other games they play while mining to pass the time, something needs to be adjusted.

You want cheaper prices? You want more targets to pop and gank? Make mining fun and you can have all of this and more.

Make it dynamic. Make it involving. Make it enjoyable. Make it optional. Give players a choice. Consider a Planetary Interaction method of mining. Star Wars Galaxies managed just fine by allowing players to choose active harvesting vs. relying on less-efficient extractors, so why can't EVE? The system is already in place. Consider something at least.

Our reliance on mining will only increase from this point forward. And it needs to change in a big way.

Please CCP, this relic needs a makeover.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-04-15 02:42:38 UTC
Working as intended.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
urbino
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-04-15 02:54:09 UTC
its a different playstyle
and being boring is the only difficulty it has
besides figuring out how to move millions of m3's
Ai Shun
#4 - 2012-04-15 02:56:57 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Working as intended.


Not empty quoting.
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-04-15 03:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
masternerdguy wrote:
Working as intended.


This philosophy was adequate when we could rely on outside sources for minerals via bots and drone alloys, but it is no longer sufficient.

As of 2009 - fairly old data, sorry about that - 40% of the minerals of this game came from mission loot.

Gone.

In a 2012 Inferno interview, CCP Soundwave said that 40% of the minerals came from Drone alloys.

Gone.
Ismol Mond
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-04-15 03:07:49 UTC
Completely disagree with OP here. Mining is a very popular baby step into the world of eVe for many newcomers. It is a very simple way to access EvE initially and with the mineral prices rising exponentially it is also quite lucrative atm. Most newbies I listen to seem to enjoy it, at least for a while before moving on to other activities.
Not sure what the complaints are about this proffesion. I do smell an agenda afoot though. If you don't like to mine then dont. It is basically an eve tradeskill ala most mmorpgs and is repetitive and fairly dull in nature. This keeps the add folks out of the proffession though, but imo that is a good thing.
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-04-15 03:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
Ismol Mond wrote:
Completely disagree with OP here. Mining is a very popular baby step into the world of eVe for many newcomers.

This is why I said to make it optional. Twice to be exact.

Ismol Mond wrote:
It is a very simple way to access EvE initially and with the mineral prices rising exponentially it is also quite lucrative atm.

As I suggested, profit alone will prove insufficient for players to continue mining on the long term.

Ismol Mond wrote:
I do smell an agenda afoot though. If you don't like to mine then dont.

I do not mine, nor do I have any interest in mining. My agenda is merely to recommend a much-needed change to a profession we're soon going to rely a great deal on.

Ismol Mond wrote:
It is basically an eve tradeskill ala most mmorpgs and is repetitive and fairly dull in nature.

I agree/disagree. Most MMOs do not have the vibrant, complicated economy that EVE enjoys. One that relies on these materials to function. And no, bad MMOs - or ones with lackluster design philosophies - make tradeskills dull and repetitive in nature.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#8 - 2012-04-15 03:13:13 UTC
Jon Taggart wrote:
Our reliance on mining will only increase from this point forward. And it needs to change in a big way.

I would definitely like to change our reliance on mining, before having observed the future.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ai Shun
#9 - 2012-04-15 03:14:56 UTC
Jon Taggart wrote:
This is why I said to make it optional. Twice to be exact.


What about mining is compulsory at the moment?

Jon Taggart wrote:
As I suggested, profit alone will prove insufficient for players to continue mining on the long term.


Why?
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#10 - 2012-04-15 03:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: malcovas Henderson
Jon Taggart wrote:
Recent and upcoming changes have shed light on an issue few have ever really cared about, but now it's time to have a serious discussion about it.

The bots, the drones, Pax Amarria, and the removal of Meta 0 loot from missions have turned Mining into one of the most integral aspects of this game's economy.

People can skirt around the issue all they want by proposing buffs to the Hulk's tankability or making mining more profitable, but the end result stays the same. Mining is bar-none the single most boring activity in this game. It is also the only profession in this game that encourages you to not actively play the game to do it. Profit alone will eventually prove insufficient to persuade players to continue mining for the long term.

When CCP has to ask its players what other games they play while mining to pass the time, something needs to be adjusted.

You want cheaper prices? You want more targets to pop and gank? Make mining fun and you can have all of this and more.

Make it dynamic. Make it involving. Make it enjoyable. Make it optional. Give players a choice. Consider a Planetary Interaction method of mining. Star Wars Galaxies managed just fine by allowing players to choose active harvesting vs. relying on less-efficient extractors, so why can't EVE? The system is already in place. Consider something at least.

Our reliance on mining will only increase from this point forward. And it needs to change in a big way.

Please CCP, this relic needs a makeover.



All i'm reading here is, you find mining boring, but want to jump onto the bandwagon, now it's looking profitable?

Also just because you find it boring, does not mean other do too. The way I see it, is if changes are made to suit your benefit, maybe the miners that are mining now, might find the new playstyle boring.

o7
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-04-15 03:23:54 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
What about mining is compulsory at the moment?


Mining may be compulsory now, but when the full Inferno changes come into effect, it'll become a necessity. The mineral market had a lot to fall back on, but over the years those crutches have been getting removed.

Ai Shun wrote:
Jon Taggart wrote:
As I suggested, profit alone will prove insufficient for players to continue mining on the long term.


Why?


The scores of players now picking up mining because of its newfound profit won't stick around for very long. If they found mining interesting, they would most likely be doing it from the get-go.

I see your point though. It's tough to prove that at this particular time.


Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-04-15 03:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
malcovas Henderson wrote:
All i'm reading here is, you find mining boring, but want to jump onto the bandwagon, now it's looking profitable?

I've been asking for mining revamps for years. This is nothing new. No bandwagon here. I felt like I've shouting at the wind mostly though Smile. Nobody really cared and I could understand why in a way. It wasn't all that important. It was merely a stepping stone to bigger things. Something reserved for the new players or those looking to relax.

malcovas Henderson wrote:
Also just because you find it boring, does not mean other do too.

A fair comment. I'm sure quite a few people enjoy mining, but I'm also very sure quite a few don't.

malcovas Henderson wrote:
The way I see it, is if changes are made to suit your benefit,

Please understand that I have no interest in mining. I have no hidden agenda. I'm not looking for changes that will benefit my playstyle or help make me zillions of Iskies. I'm not interested in that. I'm just trying to shed light on an issue that has plagued this game for quite some time.

malcovas Henderson wrote:
maybe the miners that are mining now, might find the new playstyle boring.

This is why I firmly believe that if mining were to receive any such changes that they be made completely optional. I'm not interested in forcing anyone to do anything. I'm not interesting in destroying something that some players enjoy. If they're content with the current mechanics, I find no fault with this in the least. However, giving players an alternative to the drudgery of the profession would be a boon.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#13 - 2012-04-15 03:42:18 UTC
Jon Taggart wrote:

This is why I firmly believe that if mining were to receive any such changes that they be made completely optional. I'm not interested in forcing anyone to do anything. I'm not interesting in destroying something that some players enjoy. If they're content with the current mechanics, I find no fault with this in the least. However, giving players an alternative to the drudgery of the profession would be a boon.


They already have alternatives from mining. PvP, PI, Missions, Incursions, Market play, Exploration, Social, Ratting, and much more.

True it could be they find these alternatives boring, but they are alternatives.



o7
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-15 03:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Jon Taggart wrote:

This is why I firmly believe that if mining were to receive any such changes that they be made completely optional. I'm not interested in forcing anyone to do anything. I'm not interesting in destroying something that some players enjoy. If they're content with the current mechanics, I find no fault with this in the least. However, giving players an alternative to the drudgery of the profession would be a boon.


They already have alternatives from mining. PvP, PI, Missions, Incursions, Market play, Exploration, Social, Ratting, and much more.

True it could be they find these alternatives boring, but they are alternatives.
o7


I meant alternatives to sitting in a hulk and staring at rocks in order to acquire minerals. Something more active. Sorry, should have been a little clearer.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#15 - 2012-04-15 03:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
At fanfest data on the player opinion of different eve activities was given, as reported to CCP in one of their surveys. There were 5 levels: Likes alot, likes a little, neutral, dislikes a little, disliked alot.

http://eve-files.com/dl/253702

Mining had 2 interesting ratings. First of all activities, it had the most of the 2 dislikes. Even so, that consisted of only 25% of the respondents. Over 50% responded with like a little or better.

If over half the player base likes mining, why does it need to be changed? If YOU do not like mining and want minerals, just put up buy orders and let others do it.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#16 - 2012-04-15 04:01:48 UTC
Jon Taggart wrote:
The scores of players now picking up mining because of its newfound profit won't stick around for very long. If they found mining interesting, they would most likely be doing it from the get-go.

Heh. The emerging equilibrium, will be interesting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#17 - 2012-04-15 04:03:26 UTC
Jon Taggart wrote:
I meant alternatives to sitting in a hulk and staring at rocks in order to acquire minerals. Something more active. Sorry, should have been a little clearer.

Ah, active as in risk management via alertness?

Some catalysts can help you there.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#18 - 2012-04-15 04:04:16 UTC
Jon Taggart wrote:


I meant alternatives to sitting in a hulk and staring at rocks in order to acquire minerals. Something more active. Sorry, should have been a little clearer.


no need to be sorry. Smile

When I mine, I entertain myself. Try different things. Stupid things, serious thing, talk, and other things. Giving people that purely do look at rocks, would be a waste of time.

Having said that. I would love to see bigger fleets of belt rats, and more often.Twisted



o7
Mathias Hex
#19 - 2012-04-15 04:06:35 UTC
Yay lets start another pointless thread

I recall one night in a nightclub called the matrix, there I was... Mother of god there I am! Holy f**k.
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-04-15 04:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jon Taggart
Vincent Athena wrote:
At fanfest data on the player opinion of different eve activities was given, as reported to CCP in one of their surveys. There were 5 levels: Likes alot, likes a little, neutral, dislikes a little, disliked alot.

Mining had 2 interesting ratings. First of all activities, it had the most of the 2 dislikes. Even so, that consisted of only 25% of the respondents. Over 50% responded with like a little or better.

Most intriguing. Do you have a link to this information, as well as data containing how many players were polled? Was it a player-wide poll, or was it only solicited at Fan Fest? Also, 50% is vague. How many liked it a lot versus the amount of those who enjoy it a little?

Alavaria Fera wrote:
Heh. The emerging equilibrium, will be interesting.

I concur, the next few months will be quite eventful Smile

Mathias Hex wrote:
Yay lets start another pointless thread

What better way to enhance a pointless thread than with a pointless post? Contributions such as these are always appreciated. Smile
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