These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Skill Point Transfers
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
FoxFire Ayderan
#1 - 2012-04-14 23:08:49 UTC

What do you think of an ability that allows veterans to transfer skill points to newbies. Big smile

In fact perhaps you could even create contracts for doing this for ISK.

I don't know. I imagine there are vets out there with an overabundance of skill points in things they never use.

I suspect there would be a variety of implications to work out for such a mechanic (such as how to prevent vets from shedding skill points just to have them transfered/bought back so they can reallocate them - that could be an exploit CCP would want to prevent).

Still might be something to explore.

killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-04-14 23:12:04 UTC
in before the onslaught of flaming

the idea of selling, transferring exchanging or otherwise altering player skill points except training them the regular fashion is a very unpopular idea by most

fyi

07

:)
FoxFire Ayderan
#3 - 2012-04-14 23:18:15 UTC

What are the objections to it?

And can those objections be addressed to implement such a feature in a way that would allow veteran players to help new players accelerate their capabilities by sacraficing some of their own capability.
killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-14 23:24:15 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:

What are the objections to it?

And can those objections be addressed to implement such a feature in a way that would allow veteran players to help new players accelerate their capabilities by sacraficing some of their own capability.



i guess when it comes to eve and its unique way of skilling up toons time its self is a currency i personly like the the fact the people who dedicate them selves to the game the longest get rewarded as such

the closest thing a new player can get to accelerating there progression in terms of skill point acquisition is by buying a skilled player from the character bazaar and other places

:)
FoxFire Ayderan
#5 - 2012-04-14 23:31:54 UTC
killorbekilled TBE wrote:


i guess when it comes to eve and its unique way of skilling up toons time its self is a currency i personly like the the fact the people who dedicate them selves to the game the longest get rewarded as such

the closest thing a new player can get to accelerating there progression in terms of skill point acquisition is by buying a skilled player from the character bazaar and other places



Sure I get that, but I think as this game has matured, it's probably getting to the point where new players coming in (such as myself) are looking at a pretty daunting progression and time comittment to get up to speed. And also for those who might want to bring up an alt.

I think I would want to limit this idea to only transfering skill points down to a character that has maybe less than 25% of your skill points. Also they wouldn't necessarily need for it to be a 1 to 1 transfer rate. It could be something like 3 to 1 or evern higher to do this.

Basically if a higher level player is willing to make a hefty sacrifice they could help bring up a lower level player.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-04-14 23:57:31 UTC
Or, I could convert my maelstrom pilot into an abbadon pilot in the space of five minutes. Or my minmatar carrier pilot into an ammar titan guy. or my leadership alt into a jump freighter alt. Or any number of other possibilities, just by using my own alts instead of a newbie.

THAT is what this system would mostly be used for, to allow instant changes and the total removal of the consequences of training sub-optimal skills.

If it can be abused, which this can, we will abuse the hell out of it.
FoxFire Ayderan
#7 - 2012-04-15 00:51:29 UTC

I think there would be ways to mitigate such abuses.

The non 1-to-1 transfer rate would be one such means to make that less attractive.

Only being able to transfer to characters that have less than a certain percentage of your character's skill points is another. You would basically never be able to transfer all your skill points to another character, because as you transfer skill points that percentage difference between your characters increases.

They could even make it inaccessible between alts on the same account.

But hey if someone wanted to totally gimp an existing character to re-level with 1/3 the skill points a new character, then I don't really see why that would be much of a problem.

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-04-15 02:11:47 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
And can those objections be addressed


No, they can't. Many people have tried, but no one has ever been able to address the objections, it's impossible to do so since the objections are too deeply rooted in the very concept of character growth acceleration.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-15 03:57:15 UTC
If this happened, you know what I would do, I'll tell you.

-Start as many trial accounts I can handle
-Maximize SP/HR
-Day before trial ends, transfer SP to main
-Rinse and repeat

If I can pull Sh*t like this off the top of my head there is something seriously wrong with what your suggesting.

And no modifying it to specifically stop this kind of abuse will not make it exploit proof, it'll just redirect the exploits

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#10 - 2012-04-15 04:01:10 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
If this happened, you know what I would do, I'll tell you.

-Start as many trial accounts I can handle
-Maximize SP/HR
-Day before trial ends, transfer SP to main
-Rinse and repeat

If I can pull Sh*t like this off the top of my head there is something seriously wrong with what your suggesting.

And no modifying it to specifically stop this kind of abuse will not make it exploit proof, it'll just redirect the exploits


Another way of doing it:
Train up an account really high
Dump all the SP into an alt to insta-train FotM
When FotM changes, dump all the SP back into the first account
Repeat ad-nauseum

There are many other ways to exploit it, Eve players have shown a singular expertise at breaking such systems, these are just two ways it could be broken.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-04-15 04:12:49 UTC
too much potential for abuse: buying characters to transfer points from ... or moving points from one character with bad rep to new charactrer will fresh slate. just another way to change a name... no, I do not like this idea.

all these ideas about buying or trading sp... or changing names... or what ever to avoid consequences or avoid time training I see as non starters.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
FoxFire Ayderan
#12 - 2012-04-15 04:15:56 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
If this happened, you know what I would do, I'll tell you.

-Start as many trial accounts I can handle
-Maximize SP/HR
-Day before trial ends, transfer SP to main
-Rinse and repeat

If I can pull Sh*t like this off the top of my head there is something seriously wrong with what your suggesting.

And no modifying it to specifically stop this kind of abuse will not make it exploit proof, it'll just redirect the exploits


Come on. You're making these exploits too easy to address. You need to come up with something better. Which by-the-way, that's what needs to be explored before such a feature could be implemented. So thank you anyhow. It's going to take every possible exploit to be concocted to ensure any feature is implemented correctly.

At any rate, obviously this would be a feature that is excluded from use by trial accounts.

FoxFire Ayderan
#13 - 2012-04-15 04:29:59 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
too much potential for abuse: buying characters to transfer points from ... or moving points from one character with bad rep to new charactrer will fresh slate. just another way to change a name... no, I do not like this idea.

all these ideas about buying or trading sp... or changing names... or what ever to avoid consequences or avoid time training I see as non starters.


I think the restrictions I recommended above would eliminate or mitigate the issues you've stated. Though I'm sure there are other controls that could be put in place if needed.

Personally, I think if the cost is high enough (e.g. there is loss ratio for such SP transfers) then frankly I wouldn't personally be too concerned if someone wanted to transfer points into a brand new character of theirs. Though ideally veterans with plenty of points to spare, or who are otherwise willing to sacrifice points, willl use it to help accelerate friends and corp-mates, or even create a contract to gain ISK for such a service.

This provides opportunities for veterans and newbies. And if a long time player wants a fresh start and is willing to take a substantial SP hit for doing so, then I don't really mind them having that opportunity. Though with the restrictions I've suggested I don't think it would pay off that well. (such as the loss-ratio and a restriction on the SP point difference between the giving and recieving character).

Katerwaul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-04-15 04:54:54 UTC
We have a way to get new players who want to buy skill points more skill points.

I didn't work enough for a lot of my early ships and I can promise, giving someone the keys to a better ship now just because they have the money doesn't mean they'll be happier or know how to drive it. Same goes for skills. Some are learned others are just plugged in. And the time it takes to get to the new ones are usually just enough to learn what you needed to know.

Working with everyone to improve New Eden -- Internet Spaceships Iz Serious Business.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-04-15 05:23:06 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
If this happened, you know what I would do, I'll tell you.

-Start as many trial accounts I can handle
-Maximize SP/HR
-Day before trial ends, transfer SP to main
-Rinse and repeat

If I can pull Sh*t like this off the top of my head there is something seriously wrong with what your suggesting.

And no modifying it to specifically stop this kind of abuse will not make it exploit proof, it'll just redirect the exploits


Come on. You're making these exploits too easy to address. You need to come up with something better. Which by-the-way, that's what needs to be explored before such a feature could be implemented. So thank you anyhow. It's going to take every possible exploit to be concocted to ensure any feature is implemented correctly.

At any rate, obviously this would be a feature that is excluded from use by trial accounts.



If you try to come up with a restriction for every possible exploit this idea will become so bloated and large that it cannot be implimented properly, and the original sentiment that you want it for would die in restrictions.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-15 05:25:32 UTC
Ive got a few mining accounts, they all have nice +5 implants, but i really want to go gank some other miners, or cyno alts or whatever, things that are basically throw away.

Those miners arent ever going to be used for anything else other then mining, they dont have to have any skills other then what they got which i think is around 6 mil sp?

Industry + Hulks skills + supports

They can however optimize training for things they can train a lot of sp in they only need two +5's actually, and with the remaps they can get some 2700 sp per hour training something with a really long training time. say caldari Ttian, it doesnt have to be titan, it could be caldari battleship, it doesnt really matter as long as its a lot of sp with the same two primary and secondary attributes. like everything in spaceship command.

Now i want throw away alts so i can go ganking in jita, or outside of jita, or where ever. I no longer have to wait to train that alt up to dessy or tornado. I can roll alts on those mining accounts trade sp between them and then fly my shiny new alt to -10 or whenever its no longer useful, pour some of its sp into a new alt, and get the rest from the fast skilling other alts.

Miner A - 2700/hr
Miner B - 2700/hr
Miner C - 2700/hr

now i honestly dont know how much sp a tornado alpha alt needs, but it cant be that much,

it would take two weeks normally to do a fairly competent alpha t1 fit tornado ganker.

how much do you want to speed up this process?

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
FoxFire Ayderan
#17 - 2012-04-15 05:51:50 UTC
Well Kusum, as I suggested this could always be restricted from use among alts on the same account.

Now if someone wants to do this with alts on other accounts they are paying for, then I don't really see it as that big of a deal. Well even if on the same account, actually. You can only level up one character per account anyhow. So I don't know how efficient it would be to level unneeded skills to transfer SP to another toon if there is some loss ratio involved.

Of course if you already have excess points from leveling skills you'll never use, and have everything you want, and are willing to sacrafice SP at say a 3-to-1 loss, to give to an alt... I say 'meh'. And an even bigger 'meh' if its restricted to toons on alternate accounts since ultimately those accounts translate into financing for CCP to continue expanding and improving the game.

But if anyone really thinks this is that big of a deal, I imagine there are other ways to put restrictions on how to use such a mechanic, including ways to make the cost effectiveness for exploitive personal use unviable; leaving this as more an act of generosity toward a new player, or if done under contract as a way to trade SP for ISK.

As an aside, lore wise perhaps you might need to meet the person at the same station with the proper facilities in order to conduct the transfer. Alternatively it can be some sort of data module you plug in that provides an increase in SP over a set period of time.
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#18 - 2012-04-15 08:53:31 UTC
you can take sp's off vets,

Pod them, then pod them again before they update clone,

SP's Transfered!
FoxFire Ayderan
#19 - 2012-04-15 18:02:04 UTC
GizzyBoy wrote:
you can take sp's off vets,

Pod them, then pod them again before they update clone,

SP's Transfered!


Now there's an idea. LOL

After you pod someone, you can retrieve a data chip out of their head that gives you a portion of their SP. Shocked
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-04-15 20:08:31 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
GizzyBoy wrote:
you can take sp's off vets,

Pod them, then pod them again before they update clone,

SP's Transfered!


Now there's an idea. LOL

After you pod someone, you can retrieve a data chip out of their head that gives you a portion of their SP. Shocked



Yay, I can pod my assorted alts for free SP!

Roll
12Next page