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The Virgins of St. Junip
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Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#41 - 2011-09-27 05:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Jaiga
*Rek appears in a holovid response. While he barely holds a straight face due to his overly formal wording, he is quite serious in theological intent*

Sometimes it's simple things like carnal pleasure that truly bring us closer to our natural state, and in such a state more receptive of The Omnipresent's silent wisdom. Why deny such a thing? To create new life is to physically emulate the Creator...it is surely a sacred act!

*laughs a bit*


Oh, and sex is good, from what I've heard. Keeps people sane.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#42 - 2011-09-27 13:03:37 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
I'd still like to know why only women and not men for this program?

Could it have to do with the anachronistic and paternalistic views of the male dominated Amarrian society? Aeons of hidebound tradition? Or a more base explanation, perhaps?


You would be surprised to see the role that True Amarr women hold in the amarrian society. Starting with the Empress, but this is yet another story.

But, yes, I do wonder the same questions, and have to admit that I am a bit puzzled at this announcement.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#43 - 2011-09-27 17:13:23 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
I'd still like to know why only women and not men for this program?

Could it have to do with the anachronistic and paternalistic views of the male dominated Amarrian society? Aeons of hidebound tradition? Or a more base explanation, perhaps?


You would be surprised to see the role that True Amarr women hold in the amarrian society. Starting with the Empress, but this is yet another story.


I have to echo this: That there is the idea that the Amarrian society is male dominated and holds paternalistic views is just ridiculous, given that true Amarr woman are oftentimes described as 'natural matriarchs', HRM just being one example. The same goes for the other ethnicities of the Empire, as exemplified by Catiz Tash-Murkon.

As to Rek:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
To create new life is to physically emulate the Creator...it is surely a sacred act!

It certainly is and thus should be treated with the respect and dignity that a sacred act affords. Also, to say that sex is equal to the act of creating new life is a bit awry given the realities of how sex is practiced nowadays: The act of pious chastity is exactly that which is bringing the act of procreation back into the sacred realm, as it means treating it not as a mere means to release stress and pass-time activity.
Also, as the careful reader might have noticed, the chastity is only for the period of service.
Saikoyu
Rho Dynamics
#44 - 2011-09-27 18:28:30 UTC
Merdaneth wrote:
Saikoyu wrote:

You say that the minimum term of service is three years, and that at maximum, any of these women may serve three terms of service. However, you do not mention a maximum term of service, nor do you state who determines the length of a term of service.

Also, on a separate topic, I noticed that you are only recruiting from your slaves. Would you not serve more if you widened the recruitment to others living in the Amarrian empire? I think it possible that many young women would like the chance to serve aboard a vessel with such a reward at the end, slave or free.


One term is three years. Minimum is one term, maximum is three terms. Total service is 3 to 9 years. Re-enlistment is determined by capability and the availability of positions.

Ms. Saikoyu, obviously, I cannot recruit from slaves I don't own. If you think another group are equally or more deserving of the program than my slaves, then please come forward. As you might understand, I feel more obligation to help my own slaves along in their journey through life than other random people.


Merdaneth, thank you for the clarification. And as to my second point, please note that I did not reference slaves, but anyone in the Amarrian Empire. I would say that any poor, disadvantaged, or sufficiently motivated young woman would leap at the chance to become well off after only risking their own life for a minimum of three years. But I can understand you being limited by resources.

However, I do have more questions. First, you say that re-enlistment is determined by capability and availability of positions. Does the slave's choice count for anything? Also, you say that your success rate is 40 percent, what becomes of the remaining 60 percent? Are the allowed to remain in the program, or are they discharged back to their formers duties? Also, how large is the class size? Or rather, how many actual people are you talking about?

Siakoyu Eblis-Kad
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-09-27 19:48:57 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Put it this way, if it was Merdaneth's plan to deflower these virgins and not help them out, why would he send them to college? Why not simply go ahead and do the deed?


Because Amarrians always need excuses. It's a cultural thing. You know, this is why I respect the Guristas infinitely more than I respect the Amarrians. The Guristas will go ahead and do a terrible thing and say "we did a terrible thing because we're rat bastards and we think you should just deal with that". The Amarrians will do terrible things and then pretend they had some more intricate reasoning behind it; but the curious and bizarre thing thing is they'll also hide perfectly acceptable impulses - like, you know, wanting to put their genitals inside someone else's genitals - under the guise of something else.

And why is the woman in the banner half-naked? I thought your society frowned on such wanton displays of skin.

Rodj Blake wrote:
The fact that you're a grubby little man who can't but help associate virgins with the loss of virginity doesn't mean that everyone else is.


Oh, no, I know that not every virgin will lose their virginity. I mean, look at half the Amarrian militia. They're in no danger of being deflowered.

Ever.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#46 - 2011-09-27 19:55:40 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
And why is the woman in the banner half-naked? I thought your society frowned on such wanton displays of skin.


No way man. You should read about Aritcio Kor-Azor.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#47 - 2011-09-27 20:34:17 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:

As to Rek:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
To create new life is to physically emulate the Creator...it is surely a sacred act!

It certainly is and thus should be treated with the respect and dignity that a sacred act affords. Also, to say that sex is equal to the act of creating new life is a bit awry given the realities of how sex is practiced nowadays: The act of pious chastity is exactly that which is bringing the act of procreation back into the sacred realm, as it means treating it not as a mere means to release stress and pass-time activity.
Also, as the careful reader might have noticed, the chastity is only for the period of service.


So long as the act is done in honest love, it's always good. Of course, that agrees with the condition of not being "a mere means to release stress and pass-time activity".

And good point, I hadn't noticed the conditions were such that it was only for the period of service. Even so, I do question the efficiency of having a crew who have never experienced the passion of a romantic relationship. Surely the thought of keeping one's husband/wife/significant other/family safe is a superior motivator than mere nationalism.

Or perhaps I'm being the hopeless romantic again. Sue me.
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2011-09-27 21:32:08 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:

And good point, I hadn't noticed the conditions were such that it was only for the period of service. Even so, I do question the efficiency of having a crew who have never experienced the passion of a romantic relationship. Surely the thought of keeping one's husband/wife/significant other/family safe is a superior motivator than mere nationalism.

Or perhaps I'm being the hopeless romantic again. Sue me.


I think we are looking at it from a different perspective. I would prefer crew losses on my ships not to result in widowed husbands and/or orphaned children.

I don't consider both particularly romantic, even though they call the cheap Gallente holo-novels that are full of such things 'romance novels'.
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2011-09-27 21:58:42 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:

I have to echo this: That there is the idea that the Amarrian society is male dominated and holds paternalistic views is just ridiculous, given that true Amarr woman are oftentimes described as 'natural matriarchs', HRM just being one example. The same goes for the other ethnicities of the Empire, as exemplified by Catiz Tash-Murkon.


I'm not sure but a lot of capsuleers seem to be reading things into my program which are not intended. The Virgins of St. Junip are not intended to support or deny a patriachal, matriachal or equal opportunity society.

I merely noted that having a young slave crew of mixed sexes created a lot of tension, a mostly male-crew seemed to encourage lots of risk-taking and sometimes sloppy work, so now I'm trying to evaluate a mostly female crew.

Also, a lot of young female slaves had the tendency to get pregnant early when living in my slave colonies, care for their children take a lot of time out of their education possibilities. This way some of them can get a good education and still have children later.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#50 - 2011-09-27 23:04:32 UTC
Well, it seems people will read into such things whatever they want to read into it. That's one of the fascinating truths of the human mind: If you expect something specific and search for it hard enough, you'll find evidence for it wherever you look.

So, they don't read what you intended to communicate, but read what they expect to read, what they search for in your words. That's not surprising. It's human.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#51 - 2011-09-28 07:43:54 UTC
This seems like a good place to repeat this offer (especially as ship crew is usually more able to actually read public broadcasts):

We welcome slave ship crew to get into contact with one of our agents (or The Secret Stairway) in the Empire to arrange support for mutiny, extraction from the Empire, and participation in our Freedom Program. Our Freedom Program provides accomodation, food and education for as long as participants like to stay, with the goal of enabling them to integrate into the Minmatar society. We also provide contacts to clans who adopt refugees should the Amarr have eradicated your original clan.

Please note that this needs to be handled with utmost care, as the Amarr tend to get rather aggressive when others exercise their free will.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2011-09-28 11:27:12 UTC
I hope the Amarr are not going to present you all their worst criminals in the process, Mr Sadik. Your offer sounds a bit dangerous.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#53 - 2011-09-28 12:04:09 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I hope the Amarr are not going to present you all their worst criminals in the process, Mr Sadik. Your offer sounds a bit dangerous.
We are quite happy to take "criminal" Minmatar back into the Republic as well. The ideas on what is or is not "criminal" and what is or is not an appropriate punishment for said "crime" differ so widely between the Empire and the Republic that I don't think the term has any real meaning left when talking about both nations at the same time.

For example, I have the strong suspicion that the main "crimes" most slaves have committed revolve around "not doing what their owner says" and "not believing in the Amarrian God enough", neither of which are crimes over here.

Actual criminals who keep to their criminal ways in the Republic will be charged and get a trial according to Republic laws. In the end, I do not think that this is a particular danger we suffer from (and actual criminal cases in the many years we have been doing this have been few and far between).

The main danger in my offer is from the Amarr who will punish those who try to escape this way but get caught. It's an unfortunate risk, but we do like to offer those who want to take that risk a place to go to.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#54 - 2011-09-28 15:39:09 UTC
I believe ms. Farel meant to ask if your olive branch extends to those slaves who became slaves due to their criminal deeds.
As such, that is a very interesting question. Does your Secret Stairway extend to offer help to the criminal amarrian, ni-kunni, khanid and udorian slaves, or is it a more racist organization?
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#55 - 2011-09-28 15:46:56 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
I believe ms. Farel meant to ask if your olive branch extends to those slaves who became slaves due to their criminal deeds.
As such, that is a very interesting question. Does your Secret Stairway extend to offer help to the criminal amarrian, ni-kunni, khanid and udorian slaves, or is it a more racist organization?
Thank you for asking this, as it is often unclear to those who wish to flee: While we concentrate on Minmatar people, we do not turn anyone away based on their race.

I think I already answered your question regarding crimes above.

Also, I would like to note that I am not affiliated with the Secret Stairway (there is more than one organization working on helping people flee from the Empire), so the "your" is a bit misplaced there - though I thank you for the compliment.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-09-28 21:03:04 UTC
Kazzzi wrote:
No way man. You should read about Aritcio Kor-Azor.


Isn't that the man who was literally torn to pieces by the Speakers of Truth? Repeatedly?

Are you saying Merdaneth shouldn't become too attached to his limbs?

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#57 - 2011-09-29 15:14:11 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I hope the Amarr are not going to present you all their worst criminals in the process, Mr Sadik. Your offer sounds a bit dangerous.
We are quite happy to take "criminal" Minmatar back into the Republic as well. The ideas on what is or is not "criminal" and what is or is not an appropriate punishment for said "crime" differ so widely between the Empire and the Republic that I don't think the term has any real meaning left when talking about both nations at the same time.

For example, I have the strong suspicion that the main "crimes" most slaves have committed revolve around "not doing what their owner says" and "not believing in the Amarrian God enough", neither of which are crimes over here.

Actual criminals who keep to their criminal ways in the Republic will be charged and get a trial according to Republic laws. In the end, I do not think that this is a particular danger we suffer from (and actual criminal cases in the many years we have been doing this have been few and far between).

The main danger in my offer is from the Amarr who will punish those who try to escape this way but get caught. It's an unfortunate risk, but we do like to offer those who want to take that risk a place to go to.


Are you telling me thieves, murderers, rapists, or even white collars are not considered as criminals in the Republic ?
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2011-09-29 15:52:05 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Are you telling me thieves, murderers, rapists, or even white collars are not considered as criminals in the Republic ?


Such a gross misinterpretation of Arkady's statement implies truly unimaginable capacity for logical contortionism. I imagine I shouldn't be surprised.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Kithrus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2011-09-29 18:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kithrus
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Are you telling me thieves, murderers, rapists, or even white collars are not considered as criminals in the Republic ?


Such a gross misinterpretation of Arkady's statement implies truly unimaginable capacity for logical contortionism. I imagine I shouldn't be surprised.


What would be surprising to me is that not a word leaves your mouth, pen and comm system without being stung into a Gallentean propagandized laden retort. You could hear a group of Amarrians having a picnic lawn party for a wedding somewhere and you'd still have to get a word in on the edgewise that the brides dress wasn't made by a free person.

As far as gross misinterpretations go your mere suggestion that this entire project is an unscrupulous venture smacks at logic in ways I can't even start to point out.

We get it, you don't like Amarrians. Point taken, frankly I like you even less then that but when the matari go have a party or the gallenteans go have a gala even I don't crash them with my mouth open and ears shut.

I know when I'm not welcome and frankly so should you.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#60 - 2011-09-29 18:29:59 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Are you telling me thieves, murderers, rapists, or even white collars are not considered as criminals in the Republic ?
No, not really. I'm not quite sure how you got that idea, but I have a suspicion that my comment on crimes being not necessarily the same might have made you think that. So let me explain that remark.

When a holder forces a slave to have sex with him, the worst he has to fear in the Empire is a stern talking-to, though in general this seems not to be considered a crime. In the Republic, the same holder would be charged as a rapist. If said slave then kills said holder to prevent said sex, in the Empire the slave would likely be charged with murder (if the slave gets a trial at all, which is not necessarily the case), while in the Republic the worst he would have to fear would be a charge of manslaughter in self defence, with a more likely outcome a celebration as a hero.

So, while the crimes you mention seem rather clear-cut on paper, the terms are not really comparable in practice.

Not to mention that the situations in which we find ourselves when we rescue slaves are somewhat hectic if not chaotic and not quite the right place for questions regarding a possible criminal record or a full trial with judge, clan representation and spokespersons, so we have to skip that part. Personally, I would prefer a somewhat more orderly procedure, but the Amarr have been rather uncooperative in this regard.