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Buff/ debuff bar

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Author
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2012-04-14 14:55:34 UTC
Lord Helghast wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Lord Helghast wrote:
oh and BTW... WTF CCP

This ones unexcuseable..............................

http://k162space.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/2012-04-12_ewar_notifications.png = not a debuff bar for modern eve...

how about you just sit down with graphics, and to the proper rounded UI elements as they should be like the UI video shows! Please dont release this half done like this, the UI is supposed to be moving forward not backwards,

Isn't that the existing notification currently on TQ?


nope, notice the icons above cap and the really out of place bar next to the normal effect bar, see why its not good lol


The icons above the cap are the bar... The "really out of place bar" is a redaction in the screenshot, it's not actually in the game.

Can I please encourage everyone to actually log into Sisi and *try* the change before commenting on it based on a screenshot? For instance the poster above who stated that you can't see numbers, can't see who's targeting you, etc. You can see all of those things, just not from a static image of the most basic way of displaying the bar.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2012-04-14 18:48:47 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Can I please encourage everyone to actually log into Sisi and *try* the change before commenting on it based on a screenshot? For instance the poster above who stated that you can't see numbers, can't see who's targeting you, etc. You can see all of those things, just not from a static image of the most basic way of displaying the bar.
A detailed devblog is also in the works.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#43 - 2012-04-14 19:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Explorer wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Can I please encourage everyone to actually log into Sisi and *try* the change before commenting on it based on a screenshot? For instance the poster above who stated that you can't see numbers, can't see who's targeting you, etc. You can see all of those things, just not from a static image of the most basic way of displaying the bar.
A detailed devblog is also in the works.

Sooner the better and with an example of the direction you are going to take it included please.
Cloak status and warp inhibited by a bubble needs to be included on the list
using a circle timer would look better then a bar timer.
Having the stack be movable would also be nice

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-04-14 20:16:28 UTC
yes please, make the UI move forward in style. don't just make something to be replaced from the ground up in 2 years

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-04-15 01:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
For anyone interested, here is an unedited screenshot of the debuff icons in action. Looks quite nice, and is rather functional. Would post one with a timer, but would need a second person for that, and sadly asking for someone to use hostile ewar on the test server is like pulling teeth.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
#46 - 2012-04-15 01:27:47 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
For anyone interested, here is an unedited screenshot of the debuff icons in action. Looks quite nice, and is rather functional. Would post one with a timer, but would need a second person for that, and sadly asking for someone to use hostile ewar on the test server is like pulling teeth.

Thats what alts are for. Got a drake set up with all the mods I want to test just waiting for more changes. Still only shows one of the modules that is jamming you. Not the rates of each of themWhat?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-04-15 05:17:39 UTC
That would assume I have alt accounts. I do not. Either way, looks like a rather nice function overall.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-04-15 20:33:58 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:
That would assume I have alt accounts. I do not. Either way, looks like a rather nice function overall.


agreed, I just don't want them to make a feature they replace a couple years down the line. get it right now, it's just a visual clutter thing.

Please, make the count down meter go AROUND the icon, so you can see which debuff is going down. And if there are muliple painters on you, you should show the bar as more and more intense, up to 4, since after that it wouldn't matter. also add a little number to the top left of each icon, and only have the timer show the longest countdown. That way you don't think you'll be free soon if the cycles keep the debuff bar running back to the top of the timer.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#49 - 2012-04-15 21:11:47 UTC
i like it.

however, PLEASE think twice before you introduce yet another context menu via a new feature. Everybody tries to get rid of them, replace them with other concepts and you guyes add them volunteerly to a computer game..

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Sekket
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-04-15 22:14:36 UTC
How about this, ewar effects on the status bar have a subscript for the number of effects that are being applied. you can right click the icon and get a list of pilots/ships/entities that are applying the effect to your ship and target them back from or broadcast them as a target from that menu.
  • CQ isn't a refuge, it's a cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iu4iekX3WE

Spugg Galdon
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-04-16 10:53:28 UTC
Also, if the "time bar" was dropped for a circular time bar that surrounded the effect icon to show you the cycle of that item individually (similar to modules in the HUD) that would be the best thing ever.

That + a simple number telling you how many Webs/Neuts etc were being applied similar to how the number of guns in a group is displayed would be EPIC
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#52 - 2012-04-16 11:26:54 UTC
Instead of adding contextual right-click menus (how did any of the UI/UX people even let you get away with that?), what about allowing us to click one of the effects and automagically have the offending attacker highlighted on the overview? No need to add new lock functionality or worry about what happens when there are multiple opponents causing the same effect - just add functionality to make the overview even more manageable.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-04-16 13:56:01 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Instead of adding contextual right-click menus (how did any of the UI/UX people even let you get away with that?), what about allowing us to click one of the effects and automagically have the offending attacker highlighted on the overview? No need to add new lock functionality or worry about what happens when there are multiple opponents causing the same effect - just add functionality to make the overview even more manageable.



This. All of this and MOAR!
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2012-04-16 14:53:33 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Instead of adding contextual right-click menus (how did any of the UI/UX people even let you get away with that?), what about allowing us to click one of the effects and automagically have the offending attacker highlighted on the overview? No need to add new lock functionality or worry about what happens when there are multiple opponents causing the same effect - just add functionality to make the overview even more manageable.


Then you will have multiple selected items on the overview, which the overview is not configured for. It's fundamentally the same solution as locking the targets using Ctrl-Click on the icon. Please elaborate if I'm not understanding you though.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath

Spugg Galdon
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-04-16 15:14:41 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Horatius Caul wrote:
Instead of adding contextual right-click menus (how did any of the UI/UX people even let you get away with that?), what about allowing us to click one of the effects and automagically have the offending attacker highlighted on the overview? No need to add new lock functionality or worry about what happens when there are multiple opponents causing the same effect - just add functionality to make the overview even more manageable.


Then you will have multiple selected items on the overview, which the overview is not configured for. It's fundamentally the same solution as locking the targets using Ctrl-Click on the icon. Please elaborate if I'm not understanding you though.


I'm pretty sure that's what he meant and he also understands how difficult it is which is why he used the term "automagically".
Would it ever be conceivable for this concept if the player base liked it?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#56 - 2012-04-16 15:48:16 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
[quote=Horatius Caul]Instead of adding contextual right-click menus (how did any of the UI/UX people even let you get away with that?), what about allowing us to click one of the effects and automagically have the offending attacker highlighted on the overview? No need to add new lock functionality or worry about what happens when there are multiple opponents causing the same effect - just add functionality to make the overview even more manageable.[/quote

Then you will have multiple selected items on the overview, which the overview is not configured for. It's fundamentally the same solution as locking the targets using Ctrl-Click on the icon. Please elaborate if I'm not understanding you though.


beside multi selection there are other options. E.g you could unfold the icon via left click into a list of all sources for the effect. The point is to go away from the boring context menu and try something modern.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#57 - 2012-04-16 16:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: MailDeadDrop
Working the new Incursions in a fleet yesterday, we noticed that the NPC-applied debuffs seemed to get stuck "on". The overview would correctly show who was applying what debuffs to you, but once they stopped (everything on the field was dead), the debuff bar was still merrily reporting that I was webbed, scrammed, painted, and neuted. I forget what the tooltips reported in that case though.

Also, the tooltip's identification of the NPCs was really poor. Like, not at all "Tama" or "Auga" or whatever, but some nonsense like "#name234". I wish I'd kept better notes. I'll look again tonight.

And finally, the tooltips sometimes wrapped, which was jarring. This may have been caused by weird long NPC names. In any case, can you look at tweaking the tooltip box to be a little bit wider to avoid wrapping?

MDD
Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#58 - 2012-04-16 17:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Creat Posudol
CCP Goliath wrote:
Horatius Caul wrote:
Instead of adding contextual right-click menus (how did any of the UI/UX people even let you get away with that?), what about allowing us to click one of the effects and automagically have the offending attacker highlighted on the overview? No need to add new lock functionality or worry about what happens when there are multiple opponents causing the same effect - just add functionality to make the overview even more manageable.


Then you will have multiple selected items on the overview, which the overview is not configured for. It's fundamentally the same solution as locking the targets using Ctrl-Click on the icon. Please elaborate if I'm not understanding you though.


How about this: Ctrl-Clicking (or just clicking?) the icon selects the offenders on the overview in order. So if I click once, I get the first one, twice the second, and so on, cycling through all of them. Still much better than the current option (or lack thereof)...

edit: if this is somehow possible, a mouse-over of the icon could somehow highlight (NOT actually select) the corresponding ships on the overview, I can then hold Ctrl (freezing the overview) and target them by hand by just remembering the position/pattern/whatever. All this requires is some form of highlight to be applied to the entries, similar to how fleet/corp/outlaw/... are highlighted already (if visible on ov and highlight enabled). The highlight would only be applied while the mouse is over the icon though, or maybe an additional second or so to help with targeting?

Another option would be that clicking the icon enables highlighting that group, clicking another icon changes the highlight to that group, clicking an already highlighted group clears it again.
Strata Maslav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-04-16 20:02:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
CCP Goliath wrote:
Horatius Caul wrote:
Instead of adding contextual right-click menus (how did any of the UI/UX people even let you get away with that?), what about allowing us to click one of the effects and automagically have the offending attacker highlighted on the overview? No need to add new lock functionality or worry about what happens when there are multiple opponents causing the same effect - just add functionality to make the overview even more manageable.


Then you will have multiple selected items on the overview, which the overview is not configured for. It's fundamentally the same solution as locking the targets using Ctrl-Click on the icon. Please elaborate if I'm not understanding you though.


Highlighting does not necessarily mean selecting.
I believe Horatius Caul is alluding to making the pilots who are using the module to be in some way highlighted (easier to discern).

If pilot who is being pointed or webbed may not want to lock the target who is aggressing. The name, distance, radial velocity, etc is many times just as, if not more important. If a pilot is able to click on the EWAR effecting his ship and then is able to look at his overview to see which pilot(s) is using said module on him he could use that information to make a faster more informed decision in the heat of battle. The pilot(s) could also be highlighted in space (change in colour/flashing of their Icon/brackets).

Example:

Pilot sees he has become warp disrupted in a fleet fight. He knows he cannot warp out, but due to the number of ship on field it is hard pin point down who he needs to get range from.

He can immediately click on the new piece of UI to see the where the pilot is in relation to him.

Seeing where he in relation to him and his distance he is able to alter his course and pulse his MWD to pull range.



I am not suggesting Ctrl+ Click locking functionality is not a big help to pilots but in terms of issues with the current UI finding pilots in your overview gives you more information especially in situation when the incoming aggression is preventing you from locking the target due to it being ECM or you out of range of the person/ they are using damps.

There are many ways you choose to allow players to identify pilots better using the overview. I suggested an example of the previous post that I made in this thread.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#60 - 2012-04-17 22:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
MailDeadDrop wrote:
Working the new Incursions in a fleet yesterday, we noticed that the NPC-applied debuffs seemed to get stuck "on". The overview would correctly show who was applying what debuffs to you, but once they stopped (everything on the field was dead), the debuff bar was still merrily reporting that I was webbed, scrammed, painted, and neuted. I forget what the tooltips reported in that case though.

Also, the tooltip's identification of the NPCs was really poor. Like, not at all "Tama" or "Auga" or whatever, but some nonsense like "#name234". I wish I'd kept better notes. I'll look again tonight.

And finally, the tooltips sometimes wrapped, which was jarring. This may have been caused by weird long NPC names. In any case, can you look at tweaking the tooltip box to be a little bit wider to avoid wrapping?

MDD
I fixed the "stuck" icons earlier today.

The NPC names should be the same as the their name in the overview, if it's not, could you please tell me how they differ?

I'll take a look at the wrapping (not sure there's much we ca do about that though).

This is only first iteration of the buff bar. We do have a lot of ideas for it and have designs, but since we really wanted to get this to you as soon as possible and were running out of time, we implemented it with minimal feature set, which we still think is going to be very useful.

Btw, you should see a devblog about the buff bar pretty soon Big smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur