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New dev blog: NVIDIA Video Card for PLEX Offer

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E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#301 - 2012-04-12 22:20:50 UTC
For someone who has to justify every penny spent on "that damn computer" it could work..."no I paid vertual currancy for it and earned it game..."

Don't need a new video card....i do need a new mouse though. hint hint.
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#302 - 2012-04-13 01:15:21 UTC
Economy Suppression wrote:
"How to be a genuine b****" AKA the hypocrite human character"

It goes like this:
Step one - tons of people saying CCP rips them off by selling way overpriced and useless graphic cards.
Step two - tons of people blaming CCP for having problems with the Account Management. Of course, they didn't forget to reiterate how overpriced, good for nothing, old etc the graphic cards were anyway ( 0.0 players know the argument as "we didn't want that system anyway" )
Step three - The graphic cards were sold in under 2 minutes.
Steep four - tons of people blaming CCP for not "giving away" enough graphic cards, despite the fact that, at step one, they were against the idea of selling those graphic cards at all.

This only confirms the fact that hypocrisy has no limit when it comes to human kind Twisted

Btw: Thanks CCP for giving away those 100 graphic cards. Unlike changes that occur ingame with each patch, which are mandatory and apply for everyone, this experiment was free for all, so there's no logical reason to blame CCP unless you're either an idiot or a malevolent person.



Hypocrisy comes into play if the peole who didn't want it purchased the cards, or tried to purchase cards and complain that there's not enough capacity.

I did not attempt to purchase a card, nor do I care that they only sold 100. If 100 players can dump that amount of isk to get a crappy video card then it shows that there is too much isk flow imbalance in the game anyhow. CCP should now look at the iskflow of everyone who tried to buy a card and see what is over-paying and if any of it is just pure grind. I agree that some players have too much isk to do anything productive, in that respect it's probably a okay move.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#303 - 2012-04-13 04:02:54 UTC
I definitely support this. There are some EVE players who pay for their game with PLEX, and many of those will be needing a new graphics card to support the new graphics (they might even need more than that!). I think these players will be very satisfied to be able to wield the power of EVE Onine to their whim, to obtain the real-world goods they need to continue to enjoy their ever-expanding experience as a capsuleer in New Eden.

I won't be benefiting from this specifically, but I can rest easy knowing that CCP has my fun factor in their best interests, and someday I'll probably be on the receiving end of something so wonderful and life-changing.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#304 - 2012-04-13 05:24:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
gfldex wrote:
Quote:
We are proceeding carefully, with a limited stock at this time, to enable us to evaluate any impacts of this unique and innovative offer on the EVE economy, and understand any challenges arising from this form of exchange of game world currency for real world goods.


Read: We are competing with our customers over PLEX and as such driving PLEX prices up. When we did that the last time a statue was damaged in the process, so we a are a more careful this time.

Are you aware of the fact that 2000 PLEX is more then there is on stock in Jita?


More like:

..Read: They are offering a chance for bitter vets whining about their antiquated PCs inability to play EVE now and in the future the chance to upgrade their silly systems with a GPU available through redeemed PLEX, (taking PLEX out of the system I might add), they can easily aquire in game with their billions of excess ISK Also like to note that the people who can take advantage of this offer are so smart, (at least they generally seem to laud themselves in such a fashion), that they can make themselves these billions of ISK in a game, yet for some reason they cannot figure out how to upgrade their silly computer to play it.

Nevermind they can't figure out that Tessalation is the result already written DirectX code that simply has to be implemented in game and does not require new models or even new textures in game; also, it does not negatively impact older or ATi GPUs because they simply do not use it.

Also might like to add that ATi GPUs can`t use it simply because they don`t have the capability to take advantage of it and despite all the complaining about Nvidia proprietary graphics and such, the only way ATi could render such graphics as afforded by Tesselation, is through the reconstruction of all game models to levels of detail afforded by Tesselation and DirectX11 which would kill even the most graphics capable PC or combination of PCs used strictly for graphics rendering.

You`d think the fact that they could just shut it off by clicking a mouse button or scale the LOD with a slider would have given that away. Also something completely missed by these so very smart people. Makes me wonder if they really are so very smart .

Hmm.. and then there is that bit about moving people in 3D rendering and art design into back-end coding because they don`t already have enough people on that already and those guys doing concept art should be better spending their time elsewhere.

..and before you, (those people complaning about this), think of the argument that they could just fire them, (as "time spent on in-game art is wasted"), and hire some people who can do back-end coding, please consider that it would also require about 6 months of retraining to get them to the point where they could work on it due to proprietary software, coding and all sorts of other things.

Now I know why Builders hire some guy to sweep the floors then suddenly decide they`d be better with him doing the plumbing than paying the plumber to do it because it`s just cheaper that way..

---------------------

Not really ranting, but I just read the facebook comments the other day in response to the Tesselation and DirectX 11 stuff the other day.

Maybe I`m the only one that sees the connection here.. maybe not, but it seems like it anyway All I really ever see is whining drivel for the most part anyway, here and elsewhere, in response to Dev posts, blogs and the like about the future of EVE save the odd positive comment here and there. Glad some of us like it anyway.

No, I don`t have the PLEX to redeem either, but it`s not meant for me is it?
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Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#305 - 2012-04-13 07:21:00 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:

Nevermind they can't figure out that Tessalation is the result already written DirectX code that simply has to be implemented in game and does not require new models or even new textures in game; also, it does not negatively impact older or ATi GPUs because they simply do not use it.

Also might like to add that ATi GPUs can`t use it simply because they don`t have the capability to take advantage of it and despite all the complaining about Nvidia proprietary graphics and such, the only way ATi could render such graphics as afforded by Tesselation, is through the reconstruction of all game models to levels of detail afforded by Tesselation and DirectX11 which would kill even the most graphics capable PC or combination of PCs used strictly for graphics rendering.


Not quoting your full text cause it way to long.

1: CCP stated that implementing tessallation will take at least tweaking of all the models in game a bit, although most of that work was done with trinity but still they need to work on their models.

2: ATI GPU's use tessallation just like Nivdia, they had poor performance for a while, I don't know if they solved that.

3: I don't know where you get your info, but its seriously flawed :)

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#306 - 2012-04-13 13:31:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Acwron
I would like CCP to introduce latest computer components.
If possible, add furniture, cars, electronics, anything !

Your pet died recently ? Not to worry, CCP stands by you ! With only 20 plexes you can have a new one ! A cute little kitty or a ferocious assault dog !

Seriously, I like the idea, I have isk, I wanna see more stuff !!!
JustScout
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#307 - 2012-04-13 14:47:56 UTC
I did not get a video card at this time.
I would like to hear something about second part of this event?
MEPH1ST0
Masonic Guard
#308 - 2012-04-13 15:04:10 UTC
I would like to know when these may be shipped... and more importantly.. WHERE they are going to be shipped from

Meph
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#309 - 2012-04-13 15:47:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Ciar Meara wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:

Nevermind they can't figure out that Tessalation is the result already written DirectX code that simply has to be implemented in game and does not require new models or even new textures in game; also, it does not negatively impact older or ATi GPUs because they simply do not use it.

Also might like to add that ATi GPUs can`t use it simply because they don`t have the capability to take advantage of it and despite all the complaining about Nvidia proprietary graphics and such, the only way ATi could render such graphics as afforded by Tesselation, is through the reconstruction of all game models to levels of detail afforded by Tesselation and DirectX11 which would kill even the most graphics capable PC or combination of PCs used strictly for graphics rendering.


Not quoting your full text cause it way to long.

1: CCP stated that implementing tessallation will take at least tweaking of all the models in game a bit, although most of that work was done with trinity but still they need to work on their models.

2: ATI GPU's use tessallation just like Nivdia, they had poor performance for a while, I don't know if they solved that.

3: I don't know where you get your info, but its seriously flawed :)


I haven't been keeping up with ATi personally. I do recall now that they had some ability to run Tessellation, but I also know that they are not designed for it and suffer a serious performance imbalance when doing so. The GPU design is entirely different than Nvidia and the only reason they may do Tesselation is through work-arounds which most likely always involve software and machine code tweaks to force the GPU to manage it.

That is, unless ATi has somewhere actually managed to change their GPU design on that level.

They may need to tweak the models a bit, but as you said that is a work in progress anyway. Tesselation acts on the base model in a similar way to the way a 3D modeling program increases smoothness of the model properties which means it suffers the same weaknesses so that stands to reason. A model with certain flaws will turn into a mess if a Tesselatew modifier is applied to it in a 3D program, so the flaws will have to be removed. Hopefully there aren't a great many of them.

Aside from that Nvidias Tesselation doesn't work in exactly the same way, only a similar way. There is no way I know of for example, for a 3D modeling program to use a bump map or texture map on a model to enhance the models physical appearance, which is what Nvidia Tesselation is actually doing to a greater or lesser degree depending on scaling. At least in part, which means lower quality texture maps may prove more a problem than actual model design in some cases.

I don't know how much the Tesselation procedure actually relies on either the base model or the texture maps here, but it does require information from both without a doubt. I'm no 3D designer either, so it's really just a basic understanding I have based on what I have read and some personal experience with 3D modeling.

edit.. that last bit, if a reference to what would happen if you tried to render an actual model with that much detail as opposed to a virtual model reconstructed on your video card, I'm not wrong. It might not actually kill your PC but it would certainly shut it down. Loading the model would be more than any system could handle, and actually rendiering it and many others like it in a game environment would be impossible.

If you had a computer which circumvented the CPU and was essentially just a series of GPUs attached to memory modules and fed all the base information from a cell computer with 50 or more cores you might have a bit more luck, but you'd never play the game due to lack of ability to process back-end code and your memory cache would be absolutely horrendous.
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ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#310 - 2012-04-13 17:46:09 UTC
STOP STOP STOP

i am sick of the current level for plex prices. stop creating use plex for this events so the plexes become affordable again. they used to hover on the high end of 200 mill and because of your plex for this x events since last last october and are now well over 500
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#311 - 2012-04-13 19:01:46 UTC
ORCACommander wrote:
STOP STOP STO

i am sick of the current level for plex prices. stop creating use plex for this events so the plexes become affordable again. they used to hover on the high end of 200 mill and because of your plex for this x events since last last october and are now well over 500


I don't know when it was ever around the upper end of 200 million except perhaps briefly last year or the year before sometime. Prior to that I'm sure it was higher as it has almost consistently been 350 million or higher and often enough in the 400+ category since I started playing EVE back around 2007

Frankly, I can't see any purpose to buying PLEX at any less than that mark given the value of ISK. Besides that, 500 Million is on the high end of PLEX price fluctuations but not as high as I have seen it and certainly not some huge change from previous years that I've noticed. I think the biggest complaint I've ever seen was when it soared to more than 600 million which is beyond reasonable I think, and it certainly isn't at that now.

I think we can all safely ignore the few 1-5 billion ISK PLEX on the current market. The price seems pretty stable apart from those few oddities which are obviously just players being boneheads. Nothing odd about that either from what I've seen. Obviously it's not speculation either as the market will never hold that and nobody would pay that much for a GPU they can buy themselves for much less

Simply put, if you calculate the price of PLX and number required you'll find that at average PLEX prices it is more or less the same as the price of the Graphics card in question with some fluctuation. I think it goes without saying that nobody is going to fork over anything but the equivalent value of ISK at normal market prices for PLEX than that card is worth. (i.e: 390 million * 20 PLEX for ~7.8 billion ISK at average PLEX prices)
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Zero Incognito
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#312 - 2012-04-13 19:30:06 UTC
Please do this again, I NEED A NEW VIDEO CARD
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2012-04-13 23:03:34 UTC
ORCACommander wrote:
STOP STOP STOP

i am sick of the current level for plex prices. stop creating use plex for this events so the plexes become affordable again. they used to hover on the high end of 200 mill and because of your plex for this x events since last last october and are now well over 500


Back when they were 200 mil, it was harder to get 200 mil than it is to get 500 mil now.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Ticarus Hellbrandt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#314 - 2012-04-14 12:16:10 UTC
when will ccp sell houses with plex?
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#315 - 2012-04-14 14:24:38 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:
STOP STOP STOP

i am sick of the current level for plex prices. stop creating use plex for this events so the plexes become affordable again. they used to hover on the high end of 200 mill and because of your plex for this x events since last last october and are now well over 500


Back when they were 200 mil, it was harder to get 200 mil than it is to get 500 mil now.
This and we should be looking for more PLEX-based stuff from CCP if they took away any lessons from the 2011 Aurum / NEX debacle.

CCP *needs* to sell more stuff that subscribers consider useful or valuable with PLEX as the currency. After all, PLEX is EVE's "gold" in the eyes of its subscribers (NOT Aurum).

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Exa Glamdring
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#316 - 2012-04-14 17:05:50 UTC
Has there been any news on when we could expect some graphiccards for sale again?
Jpw Gauger
Secret Squirrel Readiness Group
#317 - 2012-04-16 06:54:38 UTC
when are the cards going to ship? its been 4 days and no e-mail about those details.
Umbriele
Natural Inventions
#318 - 2012-04-16 11:49:09 UTC
ORCACommander wrote:
STOP STOP STOP

i am sick of the current level for plex prices. stop creating use plex for this events so the plexes become affordable again. they used to hover on the high end of 200 mill and because of your plex for this x events since last last october and are now well over 500


LOL you are sick of playing EvE for free? Maybe you want CCP to let you play EvE for free and also you want money to mantain your RL so you can stay at home and play all the day ?

What will happen if plex prices become so affordable that no ones will pay real money to CCP?
Bent Barrel
#319 - 2012-04-16 14:47:04 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:

Nevermind they can't figure out that Tessalation is the result already written DirectX code that simply has to be implemented in game and does not require new models or even new textures in game; also, it does not negatively impact older or ATi GPUs because they simply do not use it.

Also might like to add that ATi GPUs can`t use it simply because they don`t have the capability to take advantage of it and despite all the complaining about Nvidia proprietary graphics and such, the only way ATi could render such graphics as afforded by Tesselation, is through the reconstruction of all game models to levels of detail afforded by Tesselation and DirectX11 which would kill even the most graphics capable PC or combination of PCs used strictly for graphics rendering.


Not quoting your full text cause it way to long.

1: CCP stated that implementing tessallation will take at least tweaking of all the models in game a bit, although most of that work was done with trinity but still they need to work on their models.

2: ATI GPU's use tessallation just like Nivdia, they had poor performance for a while, I don't know if they solved that.

3: I don't know where you get your info, but its seriously flawed :)


I haven't been keeping up with ATi personally. I do recall now that they had some ability to run Tessellation, but I also know that they are not designed for it and suffer a serious performance imbalance when doing so. The GPU design is entirely different than Nvidia and the only reason they may do Tesselation is through work-arounds which most likely always involve software and machine code tweaks to force the GPU to manage it.

That is, unless ATi has somewhere actually managed to change their GPU design on that level.

They may need to tweak the models a bit, but as you said that is a work in progress anyway. Tesselation acts on the base model in a similar way to the way a 3D modeling program increases smoothness of the model properties which means it suffers the same weaknesses so that stands to reason. A model with certain flaws will turn into a mess if a Tesselatew modifier is applied to it in a 3D program, so the flaws will have to be removed. Hopefully there aren't a great many of them.

Aside from that Nvidias Tesselation doesn't work in exactly the same way, only a similar way. There is no way I know of for example, for a 3D modeling program to use a bump map or texture map on a model to enhance the models physical appearance, which is what Nvidia Tesselation is actually doing to a greater or lesser degree depending on scaling. At least in part, which means lower quality texture maps may prove more a problem than actual model design in some cases.

I don't know how much the Tesselation procedure actually relies on either the base model or the texture maps here, but it does require information from both without a doubt. I'm no 3D designer either, so it's really just a basic understanding I have based on what I have read and some personal experience with 3D modeling.

edit.. that last bit, if a reference to what would happen if you tried to render an actual model with that much detail as opposed to a virtual model reconstructed on your video card, I'm not wrong. It might not actually kill your PC but it would certainly shut it down. Loading the model would be more than any system could handle, and actually rendiering it and many others like it in a game environment would be impossible.

If you had a computer which circumvented the CPU and was essentially just a series of GPUs attached to memory modules and fed all the base information from a cell computer with 50 or more cores you might have a bit more luck, but you'd never play the game due to lack of ability to process back-end code and your memory cache would be absolutely horrendous.


please don't ever again comment on 3D graphics technology unless you fill your knowledge gaps .... almost all that you have written is incorrect.
Exa Glamdring
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#320 - 2012-04-16 19:19:42 UTC
Umbriele wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:
STOP STOP STOP

i am sick of the current level for plex prices. stop creating use plex for this events so the plexes become affordable again. they used to hover on the high end of 200 mill and because of your plex for this x events since last last october and are now well over 500


LOL you are sick of playing EvE for free? Maybe you want CCP to let you play EvE for free and also you want money to mantain your RL so you can stay at home and play all the day ?

What will happen if plex prices become so affordable that no ones will pay real money to CCP?


Think for a second, where do you think the PLEX come from? you think they will be on market if no one pays CCP ? :D