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NPC Stock market brainstorm/fart
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Adunh Slavy
#1 - 2011-09-27 11:44:28 UTC
Folks have been wanting a stock market for sometime now and as we all know, the current share system in Eve is connected to too many other things, corp votes, BPO locking blah blah.

But, NPC corps don't have this problem, so let's trade them. First we have to ask, why the heck would anyone buy them, what good are they.

Right now, they're not good for anything. But what if they paid a dividend. Now before you jump up and wave inflation flags at me, sit back down and listen. The dividends do not need to be ISK. They could be something else.

What that something else is could be anything - something that has value that isn't created by any other means. Not ISK, not LP (unless it was LP2 that had some different LP items that could not be gained in any other way.) Think of something that is not generated by any other means, that would also be useful to everyone. Throw out some ideas!

What ever the dividends ended up as, the out flow rate would need to be variable, perhaps even completely random once a month. Perhaps semi-random, with a bias but not absolute certainty. I'm sure some math whiz out there knows a function or few that generates waves forms. Toss in a random number from time to time.

Now all these shares would be on one huge global exchange that anyone can see any place. Or perhaps each NPC faction would have its own exchange for those NPC corps that belong to those particular factions.

Players buy and sell the shares on the exchange with either the existing market interface or a more closed system where we do not see all the orders ... could go either way on that, the existing market interface would be simpler, just needs a new range of "faction" or "global".

Anyways, too early in the day and just throwing an idea out there. Have at it.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Xintri Ra'Virr
Yamaguchi-Gumi
#2 - 2011-09-27 11:55:05 UTC
My head started to hurt after reading this. What are you talikng about? You want to pay your dividends in NPC created stuff like Antibiotics?
Sure their price is stable just like profit from selling them to NPC ( 15% or so - good for newby traders ), but they have one nasty disadvantage - Try to sell stock for 2 Bils to NPC it will take ages as NPC buy orders respawn very slowly.

Shares have no value until CCP will create mechanic forcing corporations to pay % of their profits to share holders.
All bonds are scams eventually good luck with that
Adunh Slavy
#3 - 2011-09-27 12:40:44 UTC
Xintri Ra'Virr wrote:
Sure their price is stable just like profit from selling them to NPC ( 15% or so - good for newby traders ), but they have one nasty disadvantage - Try to sell stock for 2 Bils to NPC it will take ages as NPC buy orders respawn very slowly.



I left the question of the dividend item open, just so long as it is not something created by another means, that includes NPC trade goods.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
cap Mal
Defense Advanced Research Program Agency
#4 - 2011-09-27 15:26:47 UTC
If we as players were able to impact the factions and the over arching storyline of the different factions a little more then it would make sense to have the NPC stock exchange. For example, the Amarr take a bunch of territory in faction war, the stocks of Amarr NPC corps goes up, Minmatar goes down etc. New ships are introduced, the corps that have the BPO's associated with them have a jump in stock value and pay a dividend due to increased profitability.

I guess you could link the fortunes of the various factions to different missions and how often people sucessfully complete them, but the balance and game mechanics would be super complicated and impossible to work out, so I doubt it would happen. Or maybe that would be a good thing? Carebear power blocks in high sec grind missions for faction X and the corps that oppose that faction hire or create incentives for other player groups to war dec and grief those carebears.... but there are too many loop holes for gaming the whole system and reaping profits.

In the end, I think it's a nice idea to have an NPC stock exchange but it goes against the core principles and mechanics that go on behind the current sandbox we are all playing in. It's the same reason there are no NPC banks for us to save our money in.
Sortin Crendraven
Overlord Corp
#5 - 2011-09-28 02:41:22 UTC
Having dividends paid at random would make them a roll of the dice, not something anyone would be interested in investing in. People don't invest in the stock market at random. There's a reason people buy Google or Apple stock...the company makes money and pays dividends. Also...the stock goes up in value (due to perceived future value), so it can be held and resold at a profit.

I could see NPC corps having stock. We buy and sell at stations...there is a broker fee, tax, reprocessing percentage taken, etc. These all could be considered NPC corp income (along with other NPC sale items, like skill books) which there could also be a hidden operational cost. That operational cost would be used to determine if the NPC corp was profitable during a time period, and if so, then a dividend is paid out. If not, there is no dividend, and expenses get carried over to the next time period. This would cause a natural shift in stock values, and it would not be easily predicted, without knowing the factors that determine profitability for the corporation.

But there would be zero point in having stocks that paid out RANDOM dividends.
Brock Nelson
#6 - 2011-09-28 04:58:42 UTC
Erm...why not take the isk that missioners that are still in the NPC corp and pay it out as dividend?

The downside of that it would just take away another sink in the game.

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Adunh Slavy
#7 - 2011-09-28 10:30:45 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Erm...why not take the isk that missioners that are still in the NPC corp and pay it out as dividend?

The downside of that it would just take away another sink in the game.



IMO, the dividend shuld be something that can not be gained by any other means. Don't want to create another ISK faucet or impact the sinks, or impact anyone else's income sources. If the divided was something that could be sold and consumed in game play, then it would be ISK neutral from a macro perspective.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Adunh Slavy
#8 - 2011-09-28 10:37:11 UTC
Sortin Crendraven wrote:

But there would be zero point in having stocks that paid out RANDOM dividends.



I agree, completly random would be silly. I threw it out there to get the conversation going. A wave form, that occilates month to month, each corp set up with its own "random" frequency and amplitude that can shift over time isn't completly random and does provide some predictable behavior, though not completly predictable.

I do prefer something like what you are suggesting. That NPC stock dividends are influenced by activity such as taxes, things sold and so forth.

If the divided items were somewhat unique to each NPC corp, such as Caldari Navy Widgets as opposed to Republic Fleet Foos, then natural supply would help even the field a bit. Likely there would be many more Caldari Widgets available on the market than Foos.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt