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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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ISK-making for new players

Author
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#21 - 2012-04-11 20:50:07 UTC
Deviate Sin wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Deviate Sin wrote:
viable business plan


That's the part that has us worried, bro. "Viable business plans" by definition make profit for the one running it. All this is a zero-sum game, so the ISK has to come from somewhere. The only part I can see the profit can be deducted from is the worth of the salvage/loot, which means that a salvager would be better off salvaging independently than going by your "point" system.



Currently there's a 10% fee deducted, so payout per point is based on 90% of loot/salvage. Some of that 10% is for corp wallet, and some is for the person in each station that takes the time each week to refine/haul/sell the loot. Considering the corporation finds the mission runners so you have steady work, and does all the refine/haul/selling, 10% is pretty reasonable, and you can make more isk per hour since all you have to do is grab bookmarks, salvage, and drop loot in hangar, rinse and repeat. There are going to be very few cases where an independent salvager can make up that 10% difference, considering variations in mission runner's play schedules, down time waiting for bookmarks, etc. Once again, drop by one of the channels and chat with some folks who are actively participating in the program, and get some information. It's a friendly group, I promise.


Ahh, I see. So, theoretically a couple of friends could make slightly more ISK by collaborating in running/looting/salvaging a mission, but they have to sell the loot and salvage themselves. You provide the service of getting salvagers to missions, and take a small gratuity fee out of the resulting ISK for your efforts.

Hm. That makes a lot of sense. How do you plan to ensure salvagers are actually doing their jobs completely and not just "for show" to get paid? Alternatively, how do you make sure the bookmarks are legit and not just warp traps that get the newbies to lose a Noctis to a couple of destroyers?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#22 - 2012-04-11 21:00:04 UTC
Typically the mission runners that work with the corp are serious mission runners looking to increase their isk/hour efficiency, therefore you don't find a lot of griefers. I don't recall hearing of any warp traps. Once in a rare while a missioner will create a contract with bookmarks, go afk, and forget to turn in mission, and the salvager will see live rats when they warp in. Always best to be paying attention when flying Blink but it really is pretty infrequent. Most mission runners I know would be more than happy to replace your noctis if they made such a mistake and it led to you getting blown up.

As for issues with number padding, it's pretty much self-policing. Since everything is transparent and can see the numbers, it's pretty obvious when the isk per point ratio is way down for the week, and a salvager has higher points than normal. To be honest, it's really a non-issue due to the transparency of the accounting.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#23 - 2012-04-11 22:17:40 UTC
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#24 - 2012-04-11 22:48:36 UTC



Nice resource for ISK making as well. I don't see a salvaging section there though, unless I missed it? Maybe time for an update?
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-04-12 07:45:38 UTC
Deviate Sin wrote:
Once again, this isn't a recruiting thread, and there may be multiple corps out there doing this by now, I simply wanted to make sure new EVE pilots were aware of the potential of salvaging to be a great way to start building your fortune in EVE.
It is a bait-recruitment thread (seriously, 1bil/week...), an informative thread about profitability of salvaging L4s would point new players into seeking common systems with L4 mission-runners and advertise their service in local, opening the possibility of "meeting" other players and perhaps finding a first corp even. An informative thread would be in the form of a tutorial, explaining what can be done out of the salvage, the value of reprocessing meta 0 mods, the rigs industry and so on.

Besides, I think a new player would benefit more in the long run, from fleeting with an experienced mission runner, teaching them the ropes and providing advices on target priority management, ship fitting and fleet boosting, then letting them salvage the mission, than just going after wreck fields advertised in a channel.

ISK is one thing, but worthless without experience, and investing 100mil in a hull+fitting that does nothing but salvage, when that could have been invested in a few frigates, cruisers and fitting, allowing a broader range of activities... seems like a waste for a new player.

Displaying Eve as "how much isk per hour can I make", feels wrong to me. Surely new players need to find funds, and with the various nerfs inferno brings, it will be worse, but there's more to it than just grinding ISK. Even if they can skill up while grinding ISK in their noctis, they don't learn anything, especially not the important part of the game: blowing other ships.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

Jouron
Hadon Shipping
#26 - 2012-04-12 14:35:34 UTC
You couldnt make 1 Billion isk even if every wreck field you cleared was nothing but Blood Raider ships and it was lvl 4 Pirate Invasion every time.
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#27 - 2012-04-12 19:45:23 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
Deviate Sin wrote:
Once again, this isn't a recruiting thread, and there may be multiple corps out there doing this by now, I simply wanted to make sure new EVE pilots were aware of the potential of salvaging to be a great way to start building your fortune in EVE.
It is a bait-recruitment thread (seriously, 1bil/week...), an informative thread about profitability of salvaging L4s would point new players into seeking common systems with L4 mission-runners and advertise their service in local, opening the possibility of "meeting" other players and perhaps finding a first corp even. An informative thread would be in the form of a tutorial, explaining what can be done out of the salvage, the value of reprocessing meta 0 mods, the rigs industry and so on.

Besides, I think a new player would benefit more in the long run, from fleeting with an experienced mission runner, teaching them the ropes and providing advices on target priority management, ship fitting and fleet boosting, then letting them salvage the mission, than just going after wreck fields advertised in a channel.

ISK is one thing, but worthless without experience, and investing 100mil in a hull+fitting that does nothing but salvage, when that could have been invested in a few frigates, cruisers and fitting, allowing a broader range of activities... seems like a waste for a new player.

Displaying Eve as "how much isk per hour can I make", feels wrong to me. Surely new players need to find funds, and with the various nerfs inferno brings, it will be worse, but there's more to it than just grinding ISK. Even if they can skill up while grinding ISK in their noctis, they don't learn anything, especially not the important part of the game: blowing other ships.



Thanks for your opinion, but if you're going to offer it, you might want to actually read the entire thread, and inform yourself a bit before passing judgement.

As you pointed out, the experience of working with a mission runner is nice. That opportunity also exists within a salvaging corp, in fact, you will have daily chat and contact with multiple serious mission runners. In fact, most salvagers who work for Pro Synergy also end up running missions and using their salvage service. A salvager who is daily in chat with friendly missioners is going to learn plenty, and most mission runners who contract with Pro Synergy have no problem giving salvagers advice, and even inviting them along on missions to observe and gain standing.

Once again, thanks for your assumptions, but they're simply that, and they're wrong.
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#28 - 2012-04-12 19:49:55 UTC
Jouron wrote:
You couldnt make 1 Billion isk even if every wreck field you cleared was nothing but Blood Raider ships and it was lvl 4 Pirate Invasion every time.


Doing it your way, no. But ask Gethin Rex how possible it is in a salvaging corp:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnebeCPrGmpndENrbFVtNnlfbHg4Q2V6MDhFbHBmTFE&authkey=CIiguoUJ#gid=7

Again, if you're going to speak from your anus, please insert a breath mint first as a courtesy.
Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-04-12 20:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Megos Adriano
Please don't advertise in this section of the forums.

Just because you say "this isn't a recruitment thread/sale's pitch" doesn't change the obvious fact that this is a recruitment thread/sale's pitch. Also saying "well that's just your opinion, broh, and you're like, wrong and stuff" also does not change the fact that this is indeed a recruitment thread/sale's pitch.

And boom goes the dynamite.

Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#30 - 2012-04-12 21:18:33 UTC
Megos Adriano wrote:
Please don't advertise in this section of the forums.

Just because you say "this isn't a recruitment thread/sale's pitch" doesn't change the obvious fact that this is a recruitment thread/sale's pitch. Also saying "well that's just your opinion, broh, and you're like, wrong and stuff" also does not change the fact that this is indeed a recruitment thread/sale's pitch.



If you say so. I don't really care which corp noobies join, was just advocating salvaging corps in general as a viable option. I actually don't mission run or salvage anymore myself, so it's of no consequence to me. I just wish someone would have pointed me in the salvaging corp direction when I first started.
Anshio Tamark
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-04-12 21:33:55 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
When I say highly profitable, it's not uncommon for rookie salvagers to make around 1 billion ISK a week.


A note to people enticed by this number: This is highly dependent on the faction of rats you are salvaging. Additionally, if we assume you make 20 mil ISK per hour salvaging (assumes good rats, you salvage and loot quickly, and the OP's group does not take too much of the profit), 1 billion a week would require you spend 50 hours (e.g. more time than you spend at your job) just salvaging.


That said, while the figure quoted in the OP is straight bullshit unless you have way too much free time or extreme luck, this -is- a very good way for newbies to make money. Additionally, if you have scanning skills, you can scan down missionrunners and loot/salvage without having to split the profits (but this does of course require you spend time scanning and by extension training the requisite skills). This is ninja salvaging. It's also a ton more exciting.


Quote:
by salvaging, do you mean going up to a wreck and using the salvage mod to get the metal scraps? If so, what kind of isk can you make an hour from this?

I've salvaged a few of my wrecks this way to see what it was like and it's pretty boring work


Presumably it would include both this and looting.

Quote:
This is highly profitable to all parties involved, and for those unaware, training to fly a Noctis salvager ship with fittings takes less than a day


uhhuh. And the newbies you're targeting are going to be able to buy the 90 mil hull ?

90 mil for a Noctis? Wow... The prices sure have risen a lot. When I bought mine right after it came out, I got it for only 50mil. And now they go for 90 mil?
Deviate Sin
The Byzantine Empire
#32 - 2012-04-12 21:40:32 UTC
Nah, hulls go for only 65-75m.
Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-04-12 22:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Megos Adriano
Deviate Sin wrote:
Megos Adriano wrote:
Please don't advertise in this section of the forums.

Just because you say "this isn't a recruitment thread/sale's pitch" doesn't change the obvious fact that this is a recruitment thread/sale's pitch. Also saying "well that's just your opinion, broh, and you're like, wrong and stuff" also does not change the fact that this is indeed a recruitment thread/sale's pitch.


If you say so. I don't really care which corp noobies join, was just advocating salvaging corps in general as a viable option. I actually don't mission run or salvage anymore myself, so it's of no consequence to me. I just wish someone would have pointed me in the salvaging corp direction when I first started.


I do say so, and that's a fact.

Deviate Sin wrote:
This isn't a recruiting thread, but here's a ton of information about our organization operates, what we have to offer, and how you can contact us. I mean I really don't care if you join or not but I bothered to type that anyway. BTW, here is my token mention of "those other corps" that I won't bother to name or give you contact information for. Again this is not a recruitent thread or advertisement but you should totally join our channel and learn about how you can make 1 billion ISK per week.


Roll

And boom goes the dynamite.

Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-04-12 22:23:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Megos Adriano
EDIT: INB4

"well that's just, like, your opinion, man."

"if you say so, broh."

"i don't care."

"breathmint."

bla bla bla Corporation and Alliance Recruitment is that Arrow way.

And boom goes the dynamite.

Jewel Noret
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-04-12 23:19:38 UTC
Megos Adriano wrote:
EDIT: INB4

"well that's just, like, your opinion, man."

"if you say so, broh."

"i don't care."

"breathmint."

bla bla bla Corporation and Alliance Recruitment is that Arrow way.



If you say so, broh Blink
Iotas
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2012-04-13 05:01:18 UTC
Anyone who's been saying that its a waste of skill training that could spent on something more useful, or just because it takes too long is flat-out wrong. Importance is relative, as salvaging and its related skills is very useful to have in WH space

It doesn't take long to be able to skill to use a noctis effectively: Salvaging 4, ORE Industrial 3, Mechanics 3, Survey 3, Hull Upgrades 1, Jury Rigging 3, Armor Rigging 1, Energy Grid Upgrades 3, Afterburner 3, High Speed Maneuvering 1 can be reached on a newly rolled car in 5days 4hrs (no attribute implants or accelerator

Below fit gives: 56km range on tractors, 50% Chance of Success on Salvagers, 2300ish m3 cargo, 487 M/

Highs:

4X Tractor Beam

4X Salvager


Mids:

Microwarpdrive

Cap Recharger I

Lows:

3X Expanded Cargohold

Rigs:

3X Medium Salvage Tackle


I'm not saying anybody's gonna make a bil a week casually salvaging with this, but some1 piloting this could easily hit 15mil and hour which is pretty damned good for a 5day old player.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#37 - 2012-04-13 19:07:42 UTC
While this isn't BAD advice as such, it's also not really very... good advice. Salvaging will make you money, sure, but it won't give you a feel for game mechanics that other rookie activities like low-level mission running will do.

If you're going to find someone who will let you follow them into missions, then why not have them advise you on whipping up a decent destroyer, or even a frigate, and pick off the small/medium ships to save them time? They get an actual contribution to the mission's success, you get some practice, and your share of the bounties will give you as much or more isk than salvaging anyhow. You can always train a noctis and come in afterward to salvage, still.

It's also worth noting that someone willing to have you follow them around in missions is also most likely someone willing to spot you a few million and some advice to grab a decent low-level mission ship of your own and go off solo.
Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-04-14 04:40:11 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
While this isn't BAD advice as such, it's also not really very... good advice. Salvaging will make you money, sure, but it won't give you a feel for game mechanics that other rookie activities like low-level mission running will do.

If you're going to find someone who will let you follow them into missions, then why not have them advise you on whipping up a decent destroyer, or even a frigate, and pick off the small/medium ships to save them time? They get an actual contribution to the mission's success, you get some practice, and your share of the bounties will give you as much or more isk than salvaging anyhow. You can always train a noctis and come in afterward to salvage, still.

It's also worth noting that someone willing to have you follow them around in missions is also most likely someone willing to spot you a few million and some advice to grab a decent low-level mission ship of your own and go off solo.


Shhh Pro Synergy needs some noobs to exploit.

And boom goes the dynamite.

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