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Bounty hunting - let's get this sorted

First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#101 - 2012-03-26 19:32:45 UTC
Shandir wrote:
Bump.
For those who think this is a good idea, and that this specific version of this idea is the best - go EVEmail the CSM rep you voted for (assuming they got in) and make sure that they are aware this is how you would like bounty hunting to work, and that this is an important change for you.



Dawwww ♥

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Psichotic
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-04-03 14:57:05 UTC
Well thought out. Works for me. Bump.
Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#103 - 2012-04-13 13:19:46 UTC
Just a small idea to this.

Cause this is based on killrights so as some people know someone will want to add bounties to people with no killrights on them so how about if you could buy killright and add you bounty to it from concord.

Buying more killrights against the same player would be more costly like 2 times more every time. And yes this should be insane expensive to players like 500mil / killright (for the first one) plus bounty. This would be for those that you realy realy hate someone and want them to suffer for their deeds.

Just an idea.

The high and increased cost would limit griefing and so on.

But I still like the base idea anyways XD

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#104 - 2012-04-13 14:04:38 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Just a small idea to this.

Cause this is based on killrights so as some people know someone will want to add bounties to people with no killrights on them so how about if you could buy killright and add you bounty to it from concord.

Buying more killrights against the same player would be more costly like 2 times more every time. And yes this should be insane expensive to players like 500mil / killright (for the first one) plus bounty. This would be for those that you realy realy hate someone and want them to suffer for their deeds.

Just an idea.

The high and increased cost would limit griefing and so on.

But I still like the base idea anyways XD


500 mill isn't nearly enough - people will pay that in a heartbeat to be able to get killrights on a jump freighter pilot for instance. It's just too open to exploitation IMO.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Psichotic
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-04-13 21:52:21 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:


500 mill isn't nearly enough - people will pay that in a heartbeat to be able to get killrights on a jump freighter pilot for instance. It's just too open to exploitation IMO.

I agree. Don't make it more complex than it has to be. Just make killrights transferable via contracts that don't payout more than the cost of the kill.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#106 - 2012-04-13 22:02:42 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Just a small idea to this.

Cause this is based on killrights so as some people know someone will want to add bounties to people with no killrights on them so how about if you could buy killright and add you bounty to it from concord.

Buying more killrights against the same player would be more costly like 2 times more every time. And yes this should be insane expensive to players like 500mil / killright (for the first one) plus bounty. This would be for those that you realy realy hate someone and want them to suffer for their deeds.

Just an idea.

The high and increased cost would limit griefing and so on.

But I still like the base idea anyways XD


Completely no. Killrights are issued on a chracter and granted to another. They may be granted/transferred to different characters, but under no circumstance they could be issued to people who didn't calle don themsevles with their unlawful actions.

Bounty hunting is a (utterly useless and broken) retaliation system, not another venue for free griefing (as if EVE needed any more of those!)
Tehg Rhind
Atlantic Innovations
#107 - 2012-04-14 09:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tehg Rhind
I (and some others) have mentioned how a hull-cost based payout could work really well. I wrote an autistically long post about this a couple years ago The TLDR (because it really is too long) is that low-sec is actually a failed ecosystem, and on it's own increasing rewards will never work without introducing another predator species. And the way to do that is to include this kind of a bounty system.

It's been a while since I've thought about this, and I doubt I agree with everything I wrote in that post. I know one issue I've thought of since then is that (with this system) there is very little impetus to add a bounty to someone if they already have one that is substantially high enough. But I don't know if there is a way around that, or if it's even a problem.

There's also a part of me that wonders if the bounties couldn't be placed on the corporation as a whole, instead of just on the pilots.

Edit: Re-reading my original post I just noticed that it got necroed 3 months after I originally posted it and continued on without me knowing. That's kind of neat.
Victor BlueStone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-04-15 04:46:12 UTC
I haven't read the whole thread. Responding to OP. I read your proposal and I find that you underestimate the ability
of pilots to be stubborn. If I go by your system I will buy the contract and contact perp. We will split the profits as I
pop him in his noob ship 1000x to collect the bounty. So I gotta grind a little to get all the cash! Big smile The system of
tying what the hunted flies and has in his head goes down the drain.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#109 - 2012-04-15 08:26:21 UTC
Victor BlueStone wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread. Responding to OP. I read your proposal and I find that you underestimate the ability
of pilots to be stubborn. If I go by your system I will buy the contract and contact perp. We will split the profits as I
pop him in his noob ship 1000x to collect the bounty. So I gotta grind a little to get all the cash! Big smile The system of
tying what the hunted flies and has in his head goes down the drain.


Pretty much the whole proposal - and the following thread - is about trying to make your doing this as difficult as possible, and me defending the consequent complexity on this basis.

I don't think there's any way to make it completely impossible to do that, but I have tried to make it so that you'll need to put in some real effort to do so. You'd need to join (or get an alt into) the bounty corp that gets the contract, or else get +ve standings to the guy issuing the contract. That means that you or your alt would need some kind of working relationship with other players (either exactly the right bounty corp or you managed to infiltrate the guys you ganked) to achieve the result you're after. If you've been foresighted or socially skilled enough to achieve this then I think that you will have earned your right to spend your some of your time and ISK "scraping off" the bounty placed upon you.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

killorbekilled TBE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-04-15 08:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: killorbekilled TBE
if this system has been broken or not 'working as intended' for years then why hasn't the past or present csm's or even ccp done anything about it

i agree with OP lets just put this to the front pile lets get this pushed through

:)

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#111 - 2012-04-15 08:52:16 UTC
killorbekilled TBE wrote:
if this system has been broken or not 'working as intended' for years then why hasn't the past or present csm's or even ccp done anything about it

i agree with OP lets just put this to the front pile lets get this pushed through


If I recall correctly, every single CSM has asked CCP to rework the bounty system.

CCP's answer, when they troubled to give one, has been that the tangled and undocumented state of Crimewatch (EVE's standings and aggression management system) basically made it an impossible job. Per this year's fanfest presentation, CCP are finally reworking Crimewatch, which gives us an opportunity to get some kind of bounty hunting system introduced that isn't merely a cruel joke on the new and ignorant player.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Davon Mandra'thin
Consultech Intermediary Services
#112 - 2012-04-15 09:16:05 UTC
Bienator II wrote:

no restrictions are needed.

the single mandatory requirement is:
damage done - insurance > payout


This ^^

Anything else is unnecessarily restrictive. The proposal linked below is better and simpler.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#113 - 2012-04-15 09:17:30 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Bienator II wrote:

no restrictions are needed.

the single mandatory requirement is:
damage done - insurance > payout


This ^^

Anything else is unnecessarily restrictive. The proposal linked below is better and simpler.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread


So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Davon Mandra'thin
Consultech Intermediary Services
#114 - 2012-04-15 09:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
Malcanis wrote:
So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms.


Skill Reading and Comprehension to level 1. Once you have skilled that up, read the link I posted.

This thread is a terrible idea. Killrights as a necessity would make bounties almost as useless as they are now.

Seeing as you can't read properly, allow me to explain in moron terms. Percentage of damage done in ISK minus insurance, would be payed to the killer and deducted (not negating) from the person's total bounty. If your hypothetical person with with 500m bounty was killed and the killer received 50m ISK, their new bounty would be 450m.

Give up on this ridiculous idea and start supporting the other bounty thread, the one that has been written and rewritten over and over and always gets lots and lots of support. Linked below (For emphasis).

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-04-16 17:13:27 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms.


Skill Reading and Comprehension to level 1. Once you have skilled that up, read the link I posted.

This thread is a terrible idea. Killrights as a necessity would make bounties almost as useless as they are now.

Seeing as you can't read properly, allow me to explain in moron terms. Percentage of damage done in ISK minus insurance, would be payed to the killer and deducted (not negating) from the person's total bounty. If your hypothetical person with with 500m bounty was killed and the killer received 50m ISK, their new bounty would be 450m.

Give up on this ridiculous idea and start supporting the other bounty thread, the one that has been written and rewritten over and over and always gets lots and lots of support. Linked below (For emphasis).

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread

Your insulting post does *exactly* what he says. If you think that *simple* idea will actually encourage bounty hunting, you're delusional.

Malcanis' idea works within the existing structure of bounties and killrights to craft a reasonable "bounty" system in Eve. Why don't you inject "Reading and Comprehension"...


let alone train it.....

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#116 - 2012-04-16 17:40:27 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So you're OK with me spending 50 mill ISK to negate a 500 mill bounty? I personally would be pretty reluctant to place a bounty on anyone on those terms.


Skill Reading and Comprehension to level 1. Once you have skilled that up, read the link I posted.

This thread is a terrible idea. Killrights as a necessity would make bounties almost as useless as they are now.

Seeing as you can't read properly, allow me to explain in moron terms. Percentage of damage done in ISK minus insurance, would be payed to the killer and deducted (not negating) from the person's total bounty. If your hypothetical person with with 500m bounty was killed and the killer received 50m ISK, their new bounty would be 450m.

Give up on this ridiculous idea and start supporting the other bounty thread, the one that has been written and rewritten over and over and always gets lots and lots of support. Linked below (For emphasis).

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=80648&find=unread


I read it. I am utterly opposed to insurance payouts being stolen and used for bounty payments, for exactly the reason I said earlier: the idea is to promote in-space PvP, not station tanking. Additionally, without a killright, a bounty is almost meaningless: The perp can hide in hi-sec, and if you suicide to attack him, you don't get an insurance payment on your ship. Not very enticing.

Transferrable killrights are so obviously the correct answer that I hardly know how to explain something so clear and simple to someone who claims not to understand. It's not even that complex a concept. All that "complexity" is actually additional flexibility in how contracts can be assigned; using the contract system enables new modes of player interaction and creating a valid bounty hunting profession in EVE for the first time.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#117 - 2012-04-16 18:10:25 UTC
Just so we're clear: I deeply believe consequences for player actions should always and primarily come from other players. The point of a bounty system in my worldview isn't to STOP CRIME!!! but to promote gameplay. 3rd party punitive mechanics like taking ship insurance are regressive, short0sighted and wrong headed. It's not for CCP to say that this or that player lifestyle is "wrong" and should be "punished", it should purely be the perogative of players to do so; it is CCPs place merely to give them effective and balanced tools to do so.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

GoatChops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#118 - 2012-04-17 02:07:03 UTC
@Malcanis

I really like your OP, however I have two questions:

1. Would the hunted party be made aware of the fact that a bounty contract has been placed/accepted on them?

2. Would the hunted party be able to veiw who has accepted the contract on them?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#119 - 2012-04-17 06:48:13 UTC
GoatChops wrote:
@Malcanis

I really like your OP, however I have two questions:

1. Would the hunted party be made aware of the fact that a bounty contract has been placed/accepted on them?

2. Would the hunted party be able to veiw who has accepted the contract on them?


I don't immediately see why the hunted party should be able to know either of those things. I'd be interested to hear the case for them to if you have one.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Azrael Dinn
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#120 - 2012-04-17 06:55:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

Bounty hunting is a (utterly useless and broken) retaliation system, not another venue for free griefing (as if EVE needed any more of those!)


Lets say player X decided to invite an enemy fleet into the middle of your fleet consting you the loss of your whole fleet? Does that not require retaliation?

Anyhow it was just an idea and make a point that there are deeds done in the game that need retaliation. Also the 500mil was just an example.

And I would also like to know will the player whos head is on the plate recieve any information who can shoot at him. Or will it be more like "now you died and don't even know what hit you"

Should the bountyhunters at least be "flagged" with a icon like a green skull or something so that you know who they are when you see them on the gate.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm