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[proposal] Get rid of empire

Author
Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#1 - 2012-04-13 17:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kemal Ataturk
Eve is a PVP game period.
Whoever does not pvp doesn't know how to play eve, right? Instead of wasting time, money and tears about how to "fix" wardec, incursions etc and to be sure empire carebears do not earn more isk than peeveepeers i propose to turn safe Empire to 0.0 or better to low sec.



Edit: Empire as we know it now should be only for NPC Corps. The moment you leave the NPC Corp you leave empire.

p.s. Be nice Bear
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-04-13 17:25:52 UTC
Obvious troll is obvious. 0/10.
Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#3 - 2012-04-13 17:29:58 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Obvious troll is obvious. 0/10.


it's called a proposal. It says get rid of empire entirely.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-13 17:42:18 UTC
This proposal will go far.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#5 - 2012-04-13 17:49:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kemal Ataturk
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
This proposal will go far.


I hope so because it would solve such "problems" entirely
Jessica Sweetwater wrote:
Hiya

So i was sat with 7 other eve players in our local pub n we were discussing ideas to get new players into eve. We found that most of our friends had quit because

1. Any corp under a month old they joined got war decced
2. Newbie corp tax way to high
3. Lack of real interest from the community in new players.

So we got to thinking and ended up back at my house and decided to put some real thought into the idea of portecting new players WITHOUT comprimising the game. So here is our idea outlined in detail below.

When player A starts the game, he/she has a very confusing time for the first week. But after that he/she becomes more confident. They perhaps decide to start a PvE based corp with a PvP undertone or perhaps watch youtube videos and decide to go for full scale PvP.

But after 3 days of starting said corp, bam, griefer war dec comes in. 10 pilots (all alts) flying T3 cruisers, his 5 new recruits and himself could not possibly match up to that with there skills, so they give it a shot anyway, fail and player A decides, why bother?

Player A then shuts his corp down, is angry at the game and quits. The worrying thing is, that corp, that single idea has been shattered, we know that EvE is not real but the player is demorilized and suddenly realises how far he has to go and decides that if he can't run his own corp to recruit players who have simliar play styles to him/times etc, what's the point? So he quits.

Player A, given a month could have made a huge impact on the game, we don't know. He was never given the chance.

So here is what we propose

If a player is under 2 months old and creates a corp, that corp should be given a months protection from war decs. You can call the said protection what ever it is you like. But, if would give ground and time to new corps to grow, a month period were they could in effect, choose a path and go for it. Call it, say, Concord Paid protection (could even cost players ISk).

But with this comes conditions. If this player wants to use this system (and yes it would be optional for the ceo to *tick* the box) he/she would have to recruit at least two players per week. If no one joined the corp after say 1 week the protection was automatically lifted by concord.

We personally think this could in effect give a drive to the game and allow players to make there own corps, grow, skill and run as a team. It would also bring in new players and could potentially from the butterfly effect bring a whole new breed of corps heading out to 0.0 to join alliances.

It is easy to dismiss this idea as *newbie love* but that is not it. It's about potentially sorting new players into the game, giving them that drive to make a corp with friends who join with them and have a months period to play the game for what it is.

Ofc this idea would only be avalible to players ONCE, so they couldnt just leave the corp after 29 days n start again, they would only have this option once, on any account, so no alt pee taking etc.

Anyway, we think this could be a good idea and could lead to a good drive in new players for eve.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-04-13 17:53:13 UTC
Kemal Ataturk wrote:
Eve is a PVP game period.
Whoever does not pvp doesn't know how to play eve, right? Instead of wasting time, money and tears about how to "fix" wardec, incursions etc and to be sure empire carebears do not earn more isk than peeveepeers i propose to turn safe Empire to 0.0 or better to low sec.


p.s. Be nice Bear



Sure...right after your permabanned.Cool

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Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#7 - 2012-04-13 17:54:32 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Kemal Ataturk wrote:
Eve is a PVP game period.
Whoever does not pvp doesn't know how to play eve, right? Instead of wasting time, money and tears about how to "fix" wardec, incursions etc and to be sure empire carebears do not earn more isk than peeveepeers i propose to turn safe Empire to 0.0 or better to low sec.


p.s. Be nice Bear



Sure...right after your permabanned.Cool


lol sure anned for what?
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-04-13 18:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Kemal Ataturk wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Kemal Ataturk wrote:
Eve is a PVP game period.
Whoever does not pvp doesn't know how to play eve, right? Instead of wasting time, money and tears about how to "fix" wardec, incursions etc and to be sure empire carebears do not earn more isk than peeveepeers i propose to turn safe Empire to 0.0 or better to low sec.


p.s. Be nice Bear



Sure...right after your permabanned.Cool


lol sure anned for what?


I answer with stupid/riduclous requests with an equally stupid riduclous request.



If you want something that outragious...then i expect an equal payment in likewise for my/our support.


Forcing people to play the game your way will never work here....if your going to do that...I demand to have you forcefully removed from the game as a fair price tag.

Permantely.

Don't like it? Then don't make stupid requests.

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Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#9 - 2012-04-13 18:43:51 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:


I answer with stupid/riduclous requests with an equally stupid riduclous request.



If you want something that outragious...then i expect an equal payment in likewise for my/our support.


Forcing people to play the game your way will never work here....if your going to do that...I demand to have you forcefully removed from the game as a fair price tag.

Permantely.

Don't like it? Then don't make stupid requests.


Thanks for your anwer. First of i dont force nothing. I think i have the right to make a proposal, if it's accepted or not thats a different story.

Now.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28542

This is the Dev Blogg there it says:

"Q: How long will wars last?
A: As long as the aggressor pays every week and no one surrenders (or no surrender offer is accepted), then a war can last forever."

Q: What about corp-hopping?
A: We're adding tracking in the backend to track this. How we will then display it in game is undecided, but we do have stories in the backlog (todo list) for the character war history to show if the character left a corp at war. We also want to have it cost a little to corp-hop during a war. We're also looking into not allowing you to join a corp you've left during a war while that war is still ongoing. We're also exploring some limitations to joining and leaving a corp on the fly.


"...but if you absolutely do not want to be war decced, then the only option right now is to be in a NPC corp."

Now what? Who is forcing who?

My proposal is more serious than you think. It solves a lot of issues. Everybody can kill everybody without to have anyone declare war or to pay for it? If someone doesnt want to participate in killing he stays in a NPC Corp.

Again my proposal solves a lot of issues and CCP can invest its efforts otherway.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-04-13 19:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Kemal Ataturk wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:


I answer with stupid/riduclous requests with an equally stupid riduclous request.



If you want something that outragious...then i expect an equal payment in likewise for my/our support.


Forcing people to play the game your way will never work here....if your going to do that...I demand to have you forcefully removed from the game as a fair price tag.

Permantely.

Don't like it? Then don't make stupid requests.


Thanks for your anwer. First of i dont force nothing. I think i have the right to make a proposal, if it's accepted or not thats a different story.

Now.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28542

This is the Dev Blogg there it says:

"Q: How long will wars last?
A: As long as the aggressor pays every week and no one surrenders (or no surrender offer is accepted), then a war can last forever."

Q: What about corp-hopping?
A: We're adding tracking in the backend to track this. How we will then display it in game is undecided, but we do have stories in the backlog (todo list) for the character war history to show if the character left a corp at war. We also want to have it cost a little to corp-hop during a war. We're also looking into not allowing you to join a corp you've left during a war while that war is still ongoing. We're also exploring some limitations to joining and leaving a corp on the fly.


"...but if you absolutely do not want to be war decced, then the only option right now is to be in a NPC corp."

Now what? Who is forcing who?

My proposal is more serious than you think. It solves a lot of issues. Everybody can kill everybody without to have anyone declare war or to pay for it? If someone doesnt want to participate in killing he stays in a NPC Corp.

Again my proposal solves a lot of issues and CCP can invest its efforts otherway.



Re-read your proposal and tell me again your not forcing people to play to your so called imposed style.

Also...CCP has not really changed much at all. The current mechancis for dodging War Dec is still the same it was.

Whats changing however is the exploits currently available....that is the difference.

So please...with all due respect...get off your PVP highhorse and come back down to reallity eh?

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Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-04-13 20:15:37 UTC
lets add this to the "flux system security due to pirate/missioner activity"

take a few months of ratting and ganking, blob and plexing statistics, and transform every system with x number of rats killed into a higher sec system, and every system with a x number of player killed ships into a lower security system, vast swaths of null would become a hi security and parts of empire would become lowsec, jita would of course become nullsec in a day. as no missions happen there and they dont have belts to rat.

This would be very very entertaining. mission hubs would remain little outposts in otherwise low security space. concord sov would stay hisec, because its concord sov space. It would still be empire sov so no jb, or ihubs,

but you would have to actively defend your research towers as the wardecs would fly for those hisec moon spaces, and reaction towers would need you to really defend your space. lest it turn back into hisec and all your stuff get unanchored.

this would in turn really entice people to move out to alliance hicesec, and revive those regional market hubs, unless someone really took the time and effort to maintain those trade route corridors to jita, they would all fall pretty fast into lowsecurity. and nullsec.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#12 - 2012-04-14 16:23:09 UTC
Stupidest, most ridiculous and least thought through proposal of all time.

-10,000,000 Internetz

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#13 - 2012-04-14 19:25:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kemal Ataturk
doublepost
Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#14 - 2012-04-14 19:28:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kemal Ataturk
Arduemont wrote:
Stupidest, most ridiculous and least thought through proposal of all time.

-10,000,000 Internetz


[/quote]
Do you mind enlighten me why is it that?

For a noob corp or an industrial corp that is wardect by some griefers isn't empire turned to at least 0.4/0.0? Why not turn it for everyboddy to low sec or 0.0 and only for the wardeced corp?

"Q: How long will wars last?
A: As long as the aggressor pays every week and no one surrenders (or no surrender offer is accepted), then a war can last forever."
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-04-14 19:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Kemal Ataturk wrote:

Do you mind enlighten me why is it that?

For a noob corp or an industrial corp that is wardect by some griefers isn't empire turned to at least 0.4/0.0? Why not turn it for everyboddy to low sec or 0.0 and only for the wardeced corp?

"Q: How long will wars last?
A: As long as the aggressor pays every week and no one surrenders (or no surrender offer is accepted), then a war can last forever."


Pretty ironic considering your in an NPC corp yourself smartass. For someone who hates being immune to war decs you are the pinnacle of a hypocrite.

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Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#16 - 2012-04-14 20:16:53 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Kemal Ataturk wrote:

Do you mind enlighten me why is it that?

For a noob corp or an industrial corp that is wardect by some griefers isn't empire turned to at least 0.4/0.0? Why not turn it for everyboddy to low sec or 0.0 and only for the wardeced corp?

"Q: How long will wars last?
A: As long as the aggressor pays every week and no one surrenders (or no surrender offer is accepted), then a war can last forever."


Pretty ironic considering your in an NPC corp yourself smartass. For someone who hates being immune to war decs you are the pinnacle of a hypocrite.


drake drake, 1) this is an alt, 2) i am at your side you just do not notice it. Read again what i wrote. ok englsh not my favorite but still.

Some arguments would be nice. thanks.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#17 - 2012-04-14 20:37:39 UTC
There is no argument.

Eve has a wide variety of play styles. Many many people enjoy the relative safety of highsec. I myself often use my alt to make ISK in highsec to fund my nullsec antics (he runs a small corp filled with new players that has rarely had problems with war). You will have thousands of non-pvping players and many of the pvping players unsubscribing almost instantly. The relative safety afforded in highsec is where 90% (estimated) of T1 production occurs. If you think prices for ships is high now, just imagine what it would be like with no safe place for miners.

Just imagine Jita for a moment. It would be bloody horrible chaos. War decs don't even come into it, they are such a small part of Eve compared to the vastness of high security space. New players would die instantly on undocking, or best case scenario at the exit stargate. Some players will never ever PvP, and you will take that choice from them. They wont want to play anymore, and its those carebears that fuel most of the economy, and provide the ships for us to blow each other up in. If I wrote out everything that was wrong with your suggestion, it would take me days to write it all out.

I can't believe you couldn't think of these things yourself.

It is beyond my ability to even imagine how another human being, intelligent enough to type, can think this is a good idea.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Rimase
#18 - 2012-04-15 12:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
Only thing that could happen is Faction Warfare, the meta-game of EVE, becoming a true friendly e-sport working with DUST 514.
This friendly meta-game of empire sovereign wars would differentiate from corporate business wars

The ideal EVE meta-game may be an alternative fun and friendly balanced and controlled genre with a relentless constancy and tactical advantages of advanced equipment that debalancing because of their superiority above standardised equipment - sandbox's influence of winning battles and wars.
:: Disattached from sandbox yet still mildly connected.


I like trader stuff in EVE and so this thread sucks.

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Kemal Ataturk
Antisocial Mental Disorder
#19 - 2012-04-15 17:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kemal Ataturk
Arduemont wrote:
There is no argument.

Eve has a wide variety of play styles. Many many people enjoy the relative safety of highsec. I myself often use my alt to make ISK in highsec to fund my nullsec antics (he runs a small corp filled with new players that has rarely had problems with war). You will have thousands of non-pvping players and many of the pvping players unsubscribing almost instantly. The relative safety afforded in highsec is where 90% (estimated) of T1 production occurs. If you think prices for ships is high now, just imagine what it would be like with no safe place for miners.

Just imagine Jita for a moment. It would be bloody horrible chaos. War decs don't even come into it, they are such a small part of Eve compared to the vastness of high security space. New players would die instantly on undocking, or best case scenario at the exit stargate. Some players will never ever PvP, and you will take that choice from them. They wont want to play anymore, and its those carebears that fuel most of the economy, and provide the ships for us to blow each other up in. If I wrote out everything that was wrong with your suggestion, it would take me days to write it all out.

I can't believe you couldn't think of these things yourself.

It is beyond my ability to even imagine how another human being, intelligent enough to type, can think this is a good idea.



Thank you for your raisoning. I like your post very much. In fact that are similar thoughts of mine and therefor i made this proposal. Because my proposal is what is gonna be when inferno kicks in. Inferno with its war agenda etc turns empire into 0.0/low sec, just for a few corps and "a few pilots". The Question is should it apply for only a few corporations or should it apply for all corporations. And since inferno is comming me thinks that the 2nd case should be applyied - for all corporations.

Why should it be possible to grief only certain corps? Inferno turns empire to a griefing and harrasing environment for those "carebearers". Same environment and same rules for everybody therefore instead of empire -> 0.0.

With Inferno how many (new) players gonna unsubscribe if they have to a) sit in station b) abandon assets (poses) and go back to npc corps c)pay tons of isk for either be able to surrender (if acceted) or geting mercs to fight for them and d) fight back.

If we want to keep war ongoing in empire than it would be better to turn empire into 0.0. Equal rules and environment for all.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#20 - 2012-04-15 17:53:17 UTC
I don't know how you thought that post was in any way supporting your idea.

I'm going to stop feeding the troll and stop bumping your topic. Because if you cant listen to reason, why bother doing any reasoning? Just let the thread die mate, you haven't had one supportive comment.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

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