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"New direction" = Incarna's hit massive production delays?

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mkint
#21 - 2011-09-28 00:26:05 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I don't really care why they are changing directions to fis. I'm just glad they are changing directions.


Oh but you should. The who, how, and why are very important. Just remember its not the destination thats important, but the journey.





Warning: I actually have no idea what I'm saying or if it is even relevant to the current topic.


Actually, it's really relevant. CCP going "we are doing this because we have to" is not the same as going "we are doing this because it's smart." As far as we know at this point the refocus will only last as long as subscriber numbers keep flagging. Once that's fixed, it could be back to CCP being stupid again.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-09-28 01:20:08 UTC
It is going to be interesting to see how all this turns out...


I hope I don't end up being the guy playing some other mmo a few years from now saying "I was there when EVE died"

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Yasumoto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-09-28 01:32:29 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
...I hope I don't end up being the guy playing some other mmo a few years from now saying "I was there when EVE died"

You won't be the only guy or gal lamenting CCP's current management of their EVE IP.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-09-28 02:56:10 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
I don't want to read into dev messages something that doesn't exist, but I feel I have to ask. This new direction that CCP talks about is really only a week old. Meaning before that they were still chugging along full force in the old direction.

Yet the old direction has only delivered one CQ. According to CCP, work started on that CQ in January. From January to Incarna's release, the art and coding combined seemed to had taken an enormous amount of time for such a small amount of content.

So how much of this new direction is because Incarna has fallen significantly behind schedule and can't be completed in the promised amount of time? How much of this new tune is "Oh crap, we can't deliver so let's scrap together some new ship models and rebalance some stuff and redo 0.0 in the time we have left!"?

I'm basing this on something said earlier today in a dev post. It seems like there is some backtracking happening with Incarna's deployment schedule. And this backtracking is being attributed to "refocusing." I'd like to think the refocusing is a genuine change of heart, but now I'm starting to wonder.

Other devs have claimed that establishments are ready to go. But we've seen nothing. Are they really ready? If so, why hedge on their deployment? Is it that CCP is worried about the amount of time that'll have to be spent supporting them with additional content later on, so they're rethinking them? Or are they not as complete as was implied?

I'm just curious. I don't know the answer, and this is all speculation.


I too have gotten the distinct feeling that the enthusiasm for Incarna that CCP was shoving down our throats just 3 months ago is now waning. Specifically, the Zulu dev blog and then later a post in another thread by another developer have lead me to believe that what we may ultimately get are the racial CQ's and that's about it.

Considering the demands on hardware for one CQ, I really don't see more expansive environments being rendered without a painful backlash by the playerbase as their machines, even high end machines, are brought to their knees.

If this turns out to be the case, am I going to chastise CCP? No. I'm going to be thankful that they've given up on it. Although, I may be quietly disappointed. The reason I'd be disappointed in CCP, again, is because either they have no clue what they're doing and development took them down a road they ultimately could not travel or, worse, they developed what they needed to developed in order to facilitate the development of WoD and no longer have any intentions of following through, yet again, with promises that were made. Either way, I'll be glad in the end if only because I won't be forced to load an environment that I probably won't have a real need to participate in.

Don't ban me, bro!
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#25 - 2011-09-28 03:36:51 UTC
a bit off topic maybe:

I've been waiting for diablo 3 to come out for what 3 years?
and it keeps getting pushed back.
talk about annoying.
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#26 - 2011-09-28 03:46:28 UTC
Could it possibly be that after months of complaining they have revaluated Stakeholders and included customers like we have been clamoring for?

We all wanted the stories to go more with the game, CCP heard it and bought a story game company. We wanted to toss customers out of their game in the name of good game play. They have held the line while we trash the new and old players out of the game. They took a look at other sources of revenue and a way to separate this customer base from another potential customer base. Dust opens them up to huge potential numbers of console gamers while pc gaming is all but dead. We thirst for the blood of Dust players, they give us vampires and PI. We wanted to be more than ships, they gave us Incarna and now that we have come alive, we can also die

Things are going just as we have asked.
Psychophantic
#27 - 2011-09-28 06:42:38 UTC
non judgement wrote:

I've been waiting for diablo 3 to come out for what 3 years?
and it keeps getting pushed back.
talk about annoying.


They could always just release it with one playable class and no towns.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#28 - 2011-09-28 07:06:28 UTC
CSM members supposedly have seen the other (caldari at least) racial HQs, so unless those were just sketches then there should be 'something' they could release.

Don't really see why they would wait even if they are not polished to perfection, this isn't really the time for CCP to go marketing inspired 'release everything in an impressive package next year' when most players are disillusioned and just want to see _something_ is being done.

Nyan
stoicfaux
#29 - 2011-09-28 07:11:16 UTC
If memory serves, didn't the last Carbon client update (or a framework update) fail or was otherwise removed from a feature patch?

If so, then it might not be practical to continue using Eve as a WoD/DUST prototyping tool. It would be too much extra work to connect the WiS/WoD/DUST code to the incomplete Eve Carbon client/framework, which would imply that WiS/WoD/DUST development would happen strictly outside of Eve for the foreseeable future, which translates into dev resources becoming available to work on FiS which segues nicely into a warm fuzzy "look, we're refocusing based on customer feedback" karma boosting moment.

Or it could mean that the WoD/DUST schedules are slipping and there's no more time/resources in the project plan for Eve prototyping WoD/DUST features in Eve.

Or maybe I'm biased after seeing so many failed, late and/or over-budget software projects, and I'm just projecting.


Idle speculation is great sport but 'tis a sport that burns no calories. Meaning, we're probably just running our big mouths and talking out of our fat butts.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-09-28 09:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Zey Nadar
stoicfaux wrote:

If so, then it might not be practical to continue using Eve as a WoD/DUST prototyping tool. It would be too much extra work to connect the WiS/WoD/DUST code to the incomplete Eve Carbon client/framework, which would imply that WiS/WoD/DUST development would happen strictly outside of Eve for the foreseeable future, which translates into dev resources becoming available to work on FiS which segues nicely into a warm fuzzy "look, we're refocusing based on customer feedback" karma boosting moment.

Or it could mean that the WoD/DUST schedules are slipping and there's no more time/resources in the project plan for Eve prototyping WoD/DUST features in Eve.

Or maybe I'm biased after seeing so many failed, late and/or over-budget software projects, and I'm just projecting.


Idle speculation is great sport but 'tis a sport that burns no calories. Meaning, we're probably just running our big mouths and talking out of our fat butts.



I think theres way too much speculation going on involving incarna and WoD development. I think it would be prudent for CCP to give us some new info about the development.. If not technical details, but about their plans and whether there has been problems. Id imagine that the speculation will soon turn into rumors that have negative impact to eve. At least for me it has, I have desubbed my accounts for various reasons.
Cartheron Crust
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#31 - 2011-09-28 10:29:31 UTC
There is only one direction imo. Cool
Cme BigunS
UEASC Technologies
Brave Collective
#32 - 2011-09-28 13:00:29 UTC
Why doesn't the community band together and buy up CCP's shares. Then we can force them to tell us what is planned.
CCP Fallout
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2011-09-28 13:10:00 UTC
I'd like to correct a bit of misinfo in this line, "This new direction that CCP talks about is really only a week old. Meaning before that they were still chugging along full force in the old direction."

Not at all. This has been in the works for quite some time. In fact, if you review my older posts on these forums, you'll see that I've said pretty much that we are working out what is coming next. It was not my place to say, however, that we were not happy with the direction we had decided on when we did our release planning. :D

I'm not really comfortable with saying "old direction|new direction," especially in the context that you use it in. The teams working on Incarna delivered the one CQ they were required to deliver and continued working on the remainders as expected. Those CQs will go onto Singularity soon, possibly as early as next week, although I've not been given a solid date yet.

Here's how it all went down, as I saw it from my home office here in Queens, in laymans terms (no marketing speak from me, I know how you guys hate that :)).

We had our release planning after the summer holidays as expected. A lot of good material came from that, however, a number of people were not completely satisfied with what was decided on. We also know, very, very well, how unhappy you guys are with the direction EVE has been taking, and as Zulu said in his blog and later in the thread, we wanted to put an increased focus on FiS and give you guys something to be excited about.

Now, having said that, are we getting rid of Incarna? No. But to say more on is not something that I can do. Why? Because that is the job of the Senior Producer; Zulu will be announcing very soon and in a bit more detail on what is coming next.

CCP Fallout Associate Community Manager EVE Online @ccp_fallout
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
#34 - 2011-09-28 13:25:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirime Nolwe
CCP Fallout wrote:
I'd like to correct a bit of misinfo in this line, "This new direction that CCP talks about is really only a week old. Meaning before that they were still chugging along full force in the old direction."

Not at all. This has been in the works for quite some time. In fact, if you review my older posts on these forums, you'll see that I've said pretty much that we are working out what is coming next. It was not my place to say, however, that we were not happy with the direction we had decided on when we did our release planning. :D

I'm not really comfortable with saying "old direction|new direction," especially in the context that you use it in. The teams working on Incarna delivered the one CQ they were required to deliver and continued working on the remainders as expected. Those CQs will go onto Singularity soon, possibly as early as next week, although I've not been given a solid date yet.

Here's how it all went down, as I saw it from my home office here in Queens, in laymans terms (no marketing speak from me, I know how you guys hate that :)).

We had our release planning after the summer holidays as expected. A lot of good material came from that, however, a number of people were not completely satisfied with what was decided on. We also know, very, very well, how unhappy you guys are with the direction EVE has been taking, and as Zulu said in his blog and later in the thread, we wanted to put an increased focus on FiS and give you guys something to be excited about.

Now, having said that, are we getting rid of Incarna? No. But to say more on is not something that I can do. Why? Because that is the job of the Senior Producer; Zulu will be announcing very soon and in a bit more detail on what is coming next.


Sad thing is that a big portion of your playerbase don't believe on those empty promises anymore. We focus on what you do and not on what you say. "hint hint" As for me, one account is down for some time and this one is runing on plexes and this scenario wont change till i see a big improvement on the game and direction CCP is focusing or isk runs out.
Officer Spawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-09-28 13:26:17 UTC
CCP Fallout wrote:
IBecause that is the job of the Senior Producer; Zulu will be announcing very soon and in a bit more detail on what is coming next.


'Very Soon' and 'a bit more detail' are exactly the vague statements that have been driving people crazy for months now. How hard is it to for him give a date on for the next blog post ?

I'm quite sure in two weeks we'll know nothing more concrete then we do now on what we have to look forward to.

Vyl Vit
#36 - 2011-09-28 13:27:31 UTC
Seleene wrote:
... the slum-like Minmatar one. Not very sci-fi at all tbh. Smile


ahem...Look guys. "Spartan" maybe, or "monastic" (if the Amarrians allow). We're as sci fi as you! Nyah! We're just...understated.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#37 - 2011-09-28 13:32:53 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Seleene wrote:
... the slum-like Minmatar one. Not very sci-fi at all tbh. Smile


ahem...Look guys. "Spartan" maybe, or "monastic" (if the Amarrians allow). We're as sci fi as you! Nyah! We're just...understated.



No. Caldari quarters are supposed to be spartan. Minmattar quarters are supposed to be re/multi-purposed.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#38 - 2011-09-28 13:36:19 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Mirime Nolwe wrote:

Sad thing is that a big portion of your playerbase don't believe on those empty promises anymore. We focus on what you do and not on what you say. "hint hint" As for me, one account is down for some time and this one is runing on plexes and this scenario wont change till i see a big improvement on the game and direction CCP is focusing or isk runs out.


Yes!
I found the one who speaks for all of us!!
We can all relax and let Mirime Notwe do all the talking for us.

Edit: People really should cut back on the "a big portion of your playerbase" statements.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#39 - 2011-09-28 13:44:15 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
No. Caldari quarters are supposed to be spartan. Minmattar quarters are supposed to be a ******* mess.

Fixed that for you.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
#40 - 2011-09-28 13:44:46 UTC
Judging for what i see in this forum and from what i see in game with the corps and players i used to fly around, its a good statistical example :) Anyway..

Quote:
We also know, very, very well, how unhappy you guys are with the direction EVE has been taking


Its big enough to make CCP change directions, or at least, make us believe they will.