These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Faction Weapons should benefit from specialization skills.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-04-12 19:15:26 UTC
There is space for T2 faction weapons at meta10. CCP, make it so.
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-04-12 21:11:43 UTC
Faction weapons should benefit from being fitted to faction hulls.

It knows what you think.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#43 - 2012-04-12 21:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Azemar
Quote:

Call me jaded I read these threads (ben brought up a few times) and think one of 3 things.

Some of the people who support or put up this idea are avoiding AWU 5 training. Its a pita, I know...but it is worth it.

Some of you need to learn to compromise on your fits. HItting cpu or pg problems with AWU 5 even....its for a reason. CCP kind of wants you to choose between tank or gank. Go uber highs slots, tank gives up some meat. Want to tank standing still....your highs or damage low slot mods need to give up some bang. Don't like this setup...bending or breaking the rule about too many fitting mods being fail an option . If what some think is fail makes you the isk per hour you want..all that matters really. YOu are flying the ship. they aren't lol.

Or some are jsut tired of selling faction ammo and ds gear pretty much buries faction gear (few exceptions ofc) and is usualluy better priced so there goes selling faction tank mods as well . Granted this is due to ccp's jacked dogtag based setup that needs to go or readjust quantity . But till that happens....yeah you can keep your tank mods pretty much. So here some are trying to make faction guns more sellable.


Quote:


1. Not me: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Liang_Nuren
2. I'm more interested in the extra DPS potential that would come from faction than the fittings. This goes for both PVE and PVP - though I know some people are so risk averse they'd never use them in PVP. Doesn't mean we all are. :)
3. I don't see anything wrong with faction guns having a use. As it stands, they're totally obsolete* because they can't use faction ammo and do less DPS than T2 at Spec 4. Either way, I don't have a horse in the race because I don't have a way to produce faction guns.

* Faction tachs are actually useful because of cap use + fittings. Also, T2 ammo is much less attractive on Tachs.

-Liang


This. The only skill i don't have for directly increasing the damage of large rail guns is the 5th level of Large Railgun Specialization (33 days for 2%....rofl)

I want them to benefit purely for the damage increase. AKA, i want to do more damage with the weapons that should be doing more damage. A 150 mil weapon should outdamage a 4.5 mil one. I just think its fairly, well, stupid that the next increase in damage from trained t2's costs about over a bil per turret....from 4.5 mil.

The faction weapons are at a great price for the next tier of damage from t2s. Just have to add the ability to equip t2 ammo and have them benefit from specialization skills.
Yamadori
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-04-12 22:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Yamadori
Azemar wrote:




This. The only skill i don't have for directly increasing the damage of large rail guns is the 5th level of Large Railgun Specialization (33 days for 2%....rofl)

I want them to benefit purely for the damage increase. AKA, i want to do more damage with the weapons that should be doing more damage. A 150 mil weapon should outdamage a 4.5 mil one. I just think its fairly, well, stupid that the next increase in damage from trained t2's costs about over a bil per turret....from 4.5 mil.

The faction weapons are at a great price for the next tier of damage from t2s. Just have to add the ability to equip t2 ammo and have them benefit from specialization skills.




I assume, by "a bil per turret" you mean officer turrets ?
And yes, you are absolutely right, there should be something in between those two. This has always bugged me purely due a lack of consistency. Of course there are still faction damage mods , but bringing up those makes a poor argument, because they are a different module and occupy a different slot after all :)



By the way i also need to comment on this

Marsan wrote:
I don't think people understand how prices work in this game. Prices are set by players. Both the sellers and buyers. Given the high price of these items it's clear they work just fine as they are. Personally I always use tech 2 use I have a fitting issue.


I think you don't know how faction Item prices are set.
They depend on how good/in demand the item itself and other items in the Lp store of the faction in question are.
Furthermore they are tied to prices the tags, who in return depend again on the quality of available goods in a factions/corps LP store.

In other words faction weapons cost what they cost , not because they are good or in demand but because other items are good or in demand.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#45 - 2012-04-12 22:46:36 UTC
no T1 gun should be able to load T2 munition. This is what T2 guns are for.
Yamadori
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-04-12 22:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Yamadori
double post, sry
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#47 - 2012-04-13 00:46:46 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
no T1 gun should be able to load T2 munition. This is what T2 guns are for.



Except Tiers are only absolutes in their definition, not in the order in which you get them. Most players use T2 modules way before they ever touch any faction modules. Why? Simple. Because price is its own tier within the game.

It is a fairly strong assumption that most players who own faction and deadspace gear are fairly old players. You need some skills to make a lot of isk. In this way, faction is in a much higher tier than t2.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-04-13 01:05:58 UTC
I think the obviously solution is to apply specialization skills to all weapons of that type.

Large blaster Specialization adds 2% damage to ALL Large blasters, T1/T2/Faction/Officer. It *also* allows the use of T2 large blasters.

Keep T2 ammo for T2 turrets only!

problems solved . ..


-FM
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-04-13 01:19:24 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
I think the obviously solution is to apply specialization skills to all weapons of that type.

Large blaster Specialization adds 2% damage to ALL Large blasters, T1/T2/Faction/Officer. It *also* allows the use of T2 large blasters.

Keep T2 ammo for T2 turrets only!

problems solved . ..


-FM



Think it should be the other way spec only goes towards t2 weapons, but faction can shoot t2 ammo.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#50 - 2012-04-13 02:22:12 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:
I think the obviously solution is to apply specialization skills to all weapons of that type.

Large blaster Specialization adds 2% damage to ALL Large blasters, T1/T2/Faction/Officer. It *also* allows the use of T2 large blasters.

Keep T2 ammo for T2 turrets only!

problems solved . ..


-FM



Agreed. I mean, if you're specializing in a certain gun type, why would that only apply to the 2nd tier of those guns?
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-04-13 04:07:06 UTC
Kattshiro wrote:



Think it should be the other way spec only goes towards t2 weapons, but faction can shoot t2 ammo.



Why do you think this? Why should faction guns be worse than T2? Despite costing 10x. And this price is not "supply and demand". The minimum price is set by the ISK and NPC buy price of the tags (assuming you value your LP at zero) in the LP store.

Adding the damage bonus to all turrets makes sense.

1) If fixes the problem of Faction turrents doing less damage than T2 despite being higher meta (Is there any other faction item in EVE that has worse stats than T2)

2) It makes sense from a gameplay point of view. In reality, if you have XX specialization you are going to use T2 (because it is much cheaper than meta 4) OR you are going to use Faction (to Pimp).

3) Personally I think think that if you have a skill to specialize in using something you should be you know better at it, and this skill is "Large Blaster Specialization" not "Tech 2 Large Blaster Specialization".
Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-04-13 09:11:24 UTC
Azemar wrote:
After a wasted expense, I realized that faction weapons do not benefit from specialization skills (derp). However, why is this? This has probably been mentioned before.

I know this calls into question the entire premise of the faction system, but why should t2's ever do more damage than faction? They cost upwards of 30 times more isk than t2's, and you get fitting bonuses? It seems like this current layout only benefits rich players who don't want to take the time to train, and that's a very low portion.


Thoughts/Criticisms?

Faction mods allow you to substitute ISK for SP. I'm pretty sure that was intentional.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-04-13 15:45:46 UTC
Joran Dravius wrote:
Azemar wrote:
After a wasted expense, I realized that faction weapons do not benefit from specialization skills (derp). However, why is this? This has probably been mentioned before.

I know this calls into question the entire premise of the faction system, but why should t2's ever do more damage than faction? They cost upwards of 30 times more isk than t2's, and you get fitting bonuses? It seems like this current layout only benefits rich players who don't want to take the time to train, and that's a very low portion.


Thoughts/Criticisms?

Faction mods allow you to substitute ISK for SP. I'm pretty sure that was intentional.


Please provide the complete list of faction items that are WORSE than their T2 version (other than turrets of course).

Hell provide ONE example of a faction item that is WORSE than it's T2 version.

-FM
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#54 - 2012-04-13 15:51:43 UTC
Fango Mango wrote:

Please provide the complete list of faction items that are WORSE than their T2 version (other than turrets of course).

Hell provide ONE example of a faction item that is WORSE than it's T2 version.

-FM


There's some deadspace mods that are worse than T2. RRs, for example.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Comy 1
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-04-13 16:07:05 UTC
Give scorch to faction/officer lasers. Would be awesomesauce.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-04-13 16:34:18 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Fango Mango wrote:

Please provide the complete list of faction items that are WORSE than their T2 version (other than turrets of course).

Hell provide ONE example of a faction item that is WORSE than it's T2 version.

-FM


There's some deadspace mods that are worse than T2. RRs, for example.

-Liang


a) deadspace items are not faction items . . .

b) You could also make the argument that most of the deadspace small/medium reps are worst than T1 remote armor reps and I don't think anyone else here is claiming that faction items should be worse than T1.

Any other examples other than "the obviously broken items" where FACTION items are worse than T2 items to support the claim that faction items should be worse than T2.
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-04-13 17:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kattshiro
And forum ate my thread with no draft saved Sad

I dont care to explain my reasoning again... too much frowny Sad
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-04-13 17:22:40 UTC
Yamadori wrote:

In other words faction weapons cost what they cost , not because they are good or in demand but because other items are good or in demand.



!

Someone else who understands it!
hooray!

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-04-13 17:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Liang Nuren wrote:
Fango Mango wrote:

Please provide the complete list of faction items that are WORSE than their T2 version (other than turrets of course).

Hell provide ONE example of a faction item that is WORSE than it's T2 version.

-FM


There's some deadspace mods that are worse than T2. RRs, for example.

-Liang


QTF
I've only had 1 escalation/expedition, and all I got out of it was a C type medium shield repper - complete worthless crap
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-04-13 17:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Fango Mango
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Fango Mango wrote:

Please provide the complete list of faction items that are WORSE than their T2 version (other than turrets of course).

Hell provide ONE example of a faction item that is WORSE than it's T2 version.

-FM


There's some deadspace mods that are worse than T2. RRs, for example.

-Liang


QTF
I've only had 1 escalation/expedition, and all I got out of it was a C type medium shield repper - complete worthless crap


I'm sorry you got a broken DEADSPACE item through exploration. CCP should fix those too.

It doesn't have much to do with FACTION Items in the LP stores though.