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My pitch, Here's a little story from A-Z
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Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#21 - 2012-04-11 18:36:32 UTC
Came expecting a humorous story.
Found the annoying weirdo who kept posting random crap on Bulk Trade.


Well well well
Shar Tegral
#22 - 2012-04-12 10:50:13 UTC
Recently I joined in the operation of this list. I can tell you, bans are rare but when issued ruthless. W3370Pi4 doesn't have the time to coddle people, at least not like I do. Of course being nice is occasionally seen as an opportunity to be a total prick in response so I can see why he doesn't make much effort in correcting bad behavior.

The bulk trade list does not enforce prices, that is clear.
However using the bulk trade list to pull off pricing scams between the list and the market is simply not allowed.

Farewell to poor rubbish I say.

PS: Free markets, especially in Eve, are wastelands so stop being a turd on the topic.
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-12 10:50:48 UTC
Lauren Hellfury
Super Happy Awesome Fun Times
#24 - 2012-04-12 11:01:15 UTC
isn't democracy wonderful? Blink

Help rid New Eden of T2 BPOs: ** https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62797 **The Full Pocket Aggro blog:  http://fullpocketaggro.blogspot.com/ **Now showing: **Margin Trading Scams
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-04-12 12:35:10 UTC
Just to clarify a couple things and i am not going to look at this crap fest ever again ( even if all publicity is publicity :D )

The rule fundamental to the creation of this mailing list
IS NOT free trade ( but in this context that rule plays in fugazi's favors and he has been using this as a charger for his argumentation )
the mailing list was created at the time to fill a gap between the market and people who want to sell their things in bulk for various reasons. ( most of the rules were implemented progressively in order to minimize abuses and to increase efficiency )

i also run the legit trading channel so i am very aware of the various ways to scam and extort isk from misinformed people
i want to keep the bulk trade mailing list accessible to everybody even the small time trade that starts with a 50m isk capital to the big market tycoons.

The ban inflicted on Joyous the was because i do not think that it is in the interest of the mailing list users if market manipulators dump their goods falsely priced on the mailing list
Because in the end the ramifications of market manipulations is that you control either supply or demand and thus control the price of the item even for a short amount of time.

if the mailing list is a free playground to market manipulators i think that it will endanger the perennity of the mailing list i put some much time & devotion into.

Anyway the basic decision was that i do not run this mailing list to please myself
i run it for the people so i turned this incident into a vote

i asked fugazii to be patient until the end of the week so the vote can run it's course i guess he is not because he is loosing isk so he started to act like an insane jerk to turn the odds in his favors after only giving people a part of the informations in this forum thread .

so all votes after 2012.04.10 at 18:38 do not count and the vote is ended thus resulting in a vote of 23 no to 11 yes

so market manipulators will not be allowed on the mailing list i will unban joyous the on the condition that he will not involve the mailing list in his affairs.

the final decision on this issue is that i will not hunt down market manipulators on the mailing as long as they do not involve the mailing list in their schemes.

The "Bulk Trade" Mailing List https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38453
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fugazii
Slippery Penguin
#26 - 2012-04-12 14:39:11 UTC
W3370Pi4 wrote:
Just to clarify a couple things and i am not going to look at this crap fest ever again ( even if all publicity is publicity :D

The rule fundamental to the creation of this mailing list
IS NOT free trade ( but in this context that rule plays in fugazi's favors and he has been using this as a charger for his argumentation
the mailing list was created at the time to fill a gap between the market and people who want to sell their things in bulk for various reasons. ( most of the rules were implemented progressively in order to minimize abuses and to increase efficiency

i also run the legit trading channel so i am very aware of the various ways to scam and extort isk from misinformed peopl
i want to keep the bulk trade mailing list accessible to everybody even the small time trade that starts with a 50m isk capital to the big market tycoons

The ban inflicted on Joyous the was because i do not think that it is in the interest of the mailing list users if market manipulators dump their goods falsely priced on the mailing lis
Because in the end the ramifications of market manipulations is that you control either supply or demand and thus control the price of the item even for a short amount of time

if the mailing list is a free playground to market manipulators i think that it will endanger the perennity of the mailing list i put some much time & devotion into

Anyway the basic decision was that i do not run this mailing list to please mysel
i run it for the people so i turned this incident into a vote

i asked fugazii to be patient until the end of the week so the vote can run it's course i guess he is not because he is loosing isk so he started to act like an insane jerk to turn the odds in his favors after only giving people a part of the informations in this forum thread

so all votes after 2012.04.10 at 18:38 do not count and the vote is ended thus resulting in a vote of 23 no to 11 ye

so market manipulators will not be allowed on the mailing list i will unban joyous the on the condition that he will not involve the mailing list in his affairs

the final decision on this issue is that i will not hunt down market manipulators on the mailing as long as they do not involve the mailing list in their schemes

The "Bulk Trade" Mailing List [url=https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38453]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=38453[/url
----------------------------------------



You see w33, you are not looking at things deep enough. I am not losing isk. I told you in the mails to unban me because alot of your members have invested in my operation that was run through your mailing list. Banning me means I can't as easily keep liquid, which means I can't keep markets how they are, which means markets fall, which means investors lose isk, and markets free fall as panic sets in. Since I'm constantly buying as well as selling it means my product pool is constantly expanding. So even if the markets fall worst case scenario is I'm stuck with a crazy amount of product. But if markets fall for investors they're left with a devalued product that they must sell for a loss

It's a situation of being win win for me, but being win lose for your members w33. This is what I tried to explain to you. This is why I approached you before writing all this to explain why I am needed to operate freely, because banning me means absolutely nothing to me but everything to anyone who has bought product from me. By banning me, you scammed everyone w33

But I am not a fool, I would not simply just quit with your shortsightedness. You wanted a vote, so you got a vote. I came to the forums to present my side of the case. My standpoint w33, why people should vote yes. You gave me no option to present my case otherwise, so it was a rigged vote in your favour. I made it open, to present my case, my pitch. You choosing to not do so is not my concern, that is poor judgment on your part. But now, after calling for a vote and the people actually seeing both positions you say that's unfair and further rig the election.

So enjoy it w33, you worked so hard for many years to create a scam free trade system and in the end ended up scamming all your members. Publicly trying to scam me, and running a rigged vote. And for what? There was no victim in my operation until you tried to make me a villain

o7
W3370Pi4
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-04-12 15:24:46 UTC
anyway DQ you are unbanned just take it or leave it i wont discuss anymore on this matter

i really dont care what people think unless they explain their point of view clearly to me wich is what you have done i listened to you and to make a compromise i decided to gather votes, on this issue i gathered votes to take a decision ( i wish more people had voted but thats how things are ) if i see a flaw with the current situation i will readjust to make sure the users are satisfied.

This issue was very time consuming but i now consider it solved unless i am proved otherwise.

Regards W.
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#28 - 2012-04-12 15:57:03 UTC
fugazii wrote:

But you are only looking at the surface m8. Yes I held the Norths Chinese population hostage for a half year. I gave them standings. I however took 9% of their earnings , which amounted to billions per week. I have done more damage to the RMT community than most players could ever dream of. This was largely before botting aswell, and I did not allow botters in my corp, only Chinese. My corp has long since been hit with a ban wave. This all happened in 2007, my characters are fine, because I never broke any rules.



However, for all of this, if you knew what they were doing, directly profited from it and didn't tell CCP, then you're just as guilty as they are. All of this talk about 'holding them hostage' probably won't hold any water, considering you extracted (probably) billions from the RMT farmers - and kept this money to yourself. The correct approach would have been to petition it at the time, and get the OK from a GM.
fugazii
Slippery Penguin
#29 - 2012-04-12 16:15:14 UTC
Gorki Andropov wrote:
fugazii wrote:

But you are only looking at the surface m8. Yes I held the Norths Chinese population hostage for a half year. I gave them standings. I however took 9% of their earnings , which amounted to billions per week. I have done more damage to the RMT community than most players could ever dream of. This was largely before botting aswell, and I did not allow botters in my corp, only Chinese. My corp has long since been hit with a ban wave. This all happened in 2007, my characters are fine, because I never broke any rules.



However, for all of this, if you knew what they were doing, directly profited from it and didn't tell CCP, then you're just as guilty as they are. All of this talk about 'holding them hostage' probably won't hold any water, considering you extracted (probably) billions from the RMT farmers - and kept this money to yourself. The correct approach would have been to petition it at the time, and get the OK from a GM.


Alleged RMTrs, I have no proof. I only sought out corpless Chinese players and I imprisoned them in my corporation through force or the allure of standings. A witch hunt really. I have no need to contact the GMs, I know the rules and if they changed something to not allow this then I would have stopped.

And yes it is over w33, like I said no hard feelings, I just wanted to present my case.
Atreyu Bayne
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-12 19:09:59 UTC
I don't see the big deal here. Dude makes a list and moderates it as he sees fit, people whine eventually as the population increases.

Don't like the moderator? Don't use the list.

Or alternatively, make a Bulk Trade2 Straight

This dude was nice to even allow a vote for something he made IMO.
Debiru
Universal Fleet Operations
#31 - 2012-04-12 19:36:56 UTC
Different lists have different purposes. The Bulk Trade list is not intended as part of the market manipulation system. This has nothing to do with free trade or regulated. You're not really participating in the trade, but in market speculation and manipulation, which is another aspect of the market entirely. Find a more suitable mailing list.
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