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Why is anyone using a Hulk over a Covetor.
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N'baro Dark
#61 - 2012-04-12 17:03:54 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:


DONT sit AFK
BE ALIGNED
DONT BE STUPID



and
learn the difference between aligning and being aligned
tank (not hard to get to 25k EHP)
keep an eye on local
check dscan frequently

and shoot your hulk with an alt in a rookie ship right at the start. Nothing beats free Concord bodyguards.
Victor Twenty
The Scorpion Brothers
#62 - 2012-04-12 17:08:31 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.

For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)

Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.

WHY are people using Hulks?

They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined.



I have to completely agree with this statment, their is no reason to buy or use a hulk anymore, not while CCP allows highsec ganking with a destroyer. You arent as effecient but your risk vs reward is much more reasonable.

The simplest solution to the problem is give barges an increase in hull to be simalar to a Battleship, my reasons for this is because heavy equipment such as mining equipment should be built on a strong hull. This would prevent sucide ganking of hulks with anything short of a battleship, seems like a more reasonable risk vs reward to me.

The only people that this change would affect are low life gankers in destroyers. You can still gank hulks but not with a sub 1m isk destoryer, also these ships will exploded just the same in lowsec and null sec, you will just need to bring some extra dps. This change also provides plays with the chance to defend miners because they wouldnt pop instantly.

Vic20
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#63 - 2012-04-12 17:10:13 UTC
Victor Twenty wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
If you put Damage Control II and Reinforced Bulkhead II on a Covetor then you have 11,586 EHP and about 90% the mining rate of a Hulk.

For something like a tenth the price? (Last time I looked, ship prices are all over the place.)

Plus the Covetor pays out semi-decent insurance.

WHY are people using Hulks?

They are next to worthless unless you only lose one for every, well, more than 1 billion ISK mined.



I have to completely agree with this statment, their is no reason to buy or use a hulk anymore, not while CCP allows highsec ganking with a destroyer. You arent as effecient but your risk vs reward is much more reasonable.

The simplest solution to the problem is give barges an increase in hull to be simalar to a Battleship, my reasons for this is because heavy equipment such as mining equipment should be built on a strong hull. This would prevent sucide ganking of hulks with anything short of a battleship, seems like a more reasonable risk vs reward to me.

The only people that this change would affect are low life gankers in destroyers. You can still gank hulks but not with a sub 1m isk destoryer, also these ships will exploded just the same in lowsec and null sec, you will just need to bring some extra dps. This change also provides plays with the chance to defend miners because they wouldnt pop instantly.

Vic20


You are wrong.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#64 - 2012-04-12 17:10:59 UTC
First of all with battleship-like hulls you'll still be gankable by a dozen destroyers.

You'll come back crying for even more EHP.

Ad ******* nauseum.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#65 - 2012-04-12 17:13:10 UTC
Try not to mine AFK. You shouldn't be able to generate ISK with zero RISK.

But you can reduce the risk to near-zero.

Align. D-Scan at a reasonable range.

Warp if there's blips.

Sure it lowers efficiency in the short-term. But you live. And that's 250M+ in your pocket every time.

Make yourself a target, and that's what you are.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#66 - 2012-04-12 17:13:39 UTC
By the way nice rules lawyer-y solution to the "problem."

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#67 - 2012-04-12 17:13:58 UTC
Who changes these Hulk pilots' diapers when they're dirty?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Victor Twenty
The Scorpion Brothers
#68 - 2012-04-12 17:15:22 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
First of all with battleship-like hulls you'll still be gankable by a dozen destroyers.

You'll come back crying for even more EHP.

Ad ******* nauseum.


I maybe wrong but you sir are ugly :)
Steel Wraith
#69 - 2012-04-12 17:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Steel Wraith
Wow. Five posts in a row to call out "hulk tears." Who's the one crying?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#70 - 2012-04-12 17:21:34 UTC
Steel Wraith wrote:
Wow. Five posts in a row to call out "hulk tears." Who's the one crying?

Clearly it's the ones with some sanity.

Obviously Hulks need 2M EHP and an old-school Doomsday Device. Roll

Apologist filth.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Steel Wraith
#71 - 2012-04-12 17:26:31 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Steel Wraith wrote:
Wow. Five posts in a row to call out "hulk tears." Who's the one crying?

Clearly it's the ones with some sanity.

Obviously Hulks need 2M EHP and an old-school Doomsday Device. Roll

Apologist filth.


I agree with the points you make. Just don't be so emo about it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#72 - 2012-04-12 17:31:56 UTC
It's a gaussian curve.

many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.

Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.

Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff.

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#73 - 2012-04-12 17:34:04 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's a gaussian curve.

many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.

Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.

Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff.

You ignore something (or maybe forgot its existence): The FRIEND.

You cannot buff a ship to counter people having friends and claim you think that's fair.

Otherwise T1 Frigates should have 2M EHP. After all, they could be targeted by you and your friends.

This is the worst argument. Ever.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lanasak
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-04-12 17:36:01 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
And an interesting thing to also think about, the basic thought is that a miner should use their brain and be proactive to keep themselves alive...means the pilot should take the necessary steps and CCP doesn't need to buff hulks. Since so many people are using that line of thought...un-nerf titans since the whiners can't cope and use their own brains to counter Titans. They didn't need a nerf, since the pilots in sub cap ships can't figure out how to counter them just as much as a miner needs to counter getting ganked themselves...in both cases CCP doesn't need to step in at all. Logic! Un-nerf Titans and let the players deal with the issues...plus the whines it generates are just erotic to listen to Shocked


I like it when miners talk about titans it's hilarious
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#75 - 2012-04-12 17:43:10 UTC
I fly Hulks to maximize my yield...and I fit them that way too. Sure I have a shield tank fitted, but no low slot tank modules or rigs.

To me, that's the entire point of a Hulk...yield.

Ganking is a side issue, and while annoying, it can be avoided to some extent by paying attention. If somebody is determined to gank you, they can no matter how much you tank the damned things, so why not go for yield, and then chose locations and times more carefully?

Now granted, I wouldn't say no to buffs for my Hulks, if they came along. But I'd still take a yield buff over a tank buff if I had a choice, because mining is pretty mindless, so I'd like to be able to gather as much ore as possible in the times I have to mine...and you'd really have to buff the Hulk an awful lot to make it financially prohibitive to gank....and many gankers say tears are "priceless" anyways. Kinda hard to argue with that kind of logic.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#76 - 2012-04-12 17:45:33 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
I fly Hulks to maximize my yield...and I fit them that way too. Sure I have a shield tank fitted, but no low slot tank modules or rigs.

To me, that's the entire point of a Hulk...yield.

Ganking is a side issue, and while annoying, it can be avoided to some extent by paying attention. If somebody is determined to gank you, they can no matter how much you tank the damned things, so why not go for yield, and then chose locations and times more carefully?

Now granted, I wouldn't say no to buffs for my Hulks, if they came along. But I'd still take a yield buff over a tank buff if I had a choice, because mining is pretty mindless, so I'd like to be able to gather as much ore as possible in the times I have to mine...and you'd really have to buff the Hulk an awful lot to make it financially prohibitive to gank....and many gankers say tears are "priceless" anyways. Kinda hard to argue with that kind of logic.

I +1'd this to prove that miners can, in fact, think and act for themselves.

It may not be trendy among their ilk, but it isn't unheard of.

The most sensible post I've seen from a miner on the topic, bar none.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#77 - 2012-04-12 17:54:51 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's a gaussian curve.

many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.

Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.

Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff.

You ignore something (or maybe forgot its existence): The FRIEND.

You cannot buff a ship to counter people having friends and claim you think that's fair.

Otherwise T1 Frigates should have 2M EHP. After all, they could be targeted by you and your friends.

This is the worst argument. Ever.


Did the evil bunny hit you on the nose? So bitter!

I did not even talk about buffing or nerfing, just about the effects that rising or lowering the tank would have versus the statistical average of gankers accounts.
That's it. If you read more than the end of the bottle, then you smack your nose in the glass bottom.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Lanasak
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-04-12 17:57:12 UTC
https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/179947277178241025

most popular shiptype in the game

no buff needed
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#79 - 2012-04-12 17:59:18 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's a gaussian curve.

many players fall inside a 2-3 accounts each bell, many only have 1, few have above 4.

Depending on how many catalysts an Hulk can survive, this quickly weeds out the statistical amount of players with enough accounts to gank the ship.

Because the opposite is also true: huge majority of suicide gankers are also 1 men solo tards so they won't go beyond their max number of concurrent connections to kill stuff.

You ignore something (or maybe forgot its existence): The FRIEND.

You cannot buff a ship to counter people having friends and claim you think that's fair.

Otherwise T1 Frigates should have 2M EHP. After all, they could be targeted by you and your friends.

This is the worst argument. Ever.


Did the evil bunny hit you on the nose? So bitter!

I did not even talk about buffing or nerfing, just about the effects that rising or lowering the tank would have versus the statistical average of gankers accounts.
That's it. If you read more than the end of the bottle, then you smack your nose in the glass bottom.


I fully see that it's a curve. But stating the obvious is counterproductive and I think we all knew it was a curve before.

Of course if you raise its EHP it will take more dudes. Of course if you lower its EHP it will take less dudes.

Your sole point still ignored friends, which made it pretty much moot anyway.

Given, given, bad presumption. Good talking points though in your rebuttal. I'll watch out for the bottom of that bottle. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#80 - 2012-04-12 18:00:06 UTC
Lanasak wrote:
https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/179947277178241025

most popular shiptype in the game

no buff needed


God damn, the Hulk even beats THE CAPSULE.

Wow.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom