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Player Organized Arenas (querry of interest)

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KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-09-27 19:56:07 UTC
Jude Lloyd wrote:
Just use the test server.

So people fly nothing but the most ridiculously expensive ships? The thing is, it's only really worth it if there's some value to the ship you're flying.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
TFirish3
Apollo's Rising
#22 - 2011-09-28 00:03:18 UTC
I'd be generally in favor of this. I'd love to see a Roman Gladiator style arena -- basically Alliance Tournaments for the average Joes. You set up time, number of combatants per side, etc, and you get a "ring/arena" to fight in. No outside disturbances possible, no podding possible. Just a clean fight, but you DO lose your ship when it blows up of course.

My only worry is that it would deter a lot of people from low/null sec if they could get this type of PVP in a stadium environment. I'm not really looking to move WoT into Eve.

http://www.rollinseveride.blogspot.com
Goose99
#23 - 2011-09-28 00:59:32 UTC
TFirish3 wrote:
I'd be generally in favor of this. I'd love to see a Roman Gladiator style arena -- basically Alliance Tournaments for the average Joes. You set up time, number of combatants per side, etc, and you get a "ring/arena" to fight in. No outside disturbances possible, no podding possible. Just a clean fight, but you DO lose your ship when it blows up of course.

My only worry is that it would deter a lot of people from low/null sec if they could get this type of PVP in a stadium environment. I'm not really looking to move WoT into Eve.


You don't need that to deter a lot of people from lolzsec/blobsec.Roll
Pyus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-09-28 17:40:42 UTC
To OP:

I'm certainly interested in more detailed discussino on this. I've been considering the devlopment of a system very close to what you describe but have never done a rigorous study of the feasibility in terms of game mechanics. With current game mechaincs, such a system would have to rely on a lot of peer reviewing, honor, etc. as I think you've pointed out.

But even with this limitation, I think there's a very large population in the game that would appreciate something like this. Doing it right is going to take some considerable thought and devlopment (if it's even feasible).
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-09-29 22:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
Bah forum ate my post... and it wasn't even that big...

Anyhow short version

Get wormhole (highsec entrance?)

Lead opponents into WH (ideally separately)

Collapse WH - WH is now secure you will not be disturbed.

Let them have at it.

Congratulate winners.

Collect the flash frozen corpses of the losers.
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-09-29 23:55:30 UTC
Any reason not to make a "participants" corp to get around the CONCORD problem without having to go to nullsec and open yourself up to "rowdy fans" aside from the logistics of getting participants to/from their "real" corps or having to dedicate an alt (so as not to have to hop corps all the time)? Yeah, people can still suicide to disrupt an event and it'd have to be remade a bunch due to people inevitably finding it funny to wardec the arena corp but at least you can largely clamp down on outside interference.
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#27 - 2011-09-30 06:45:42 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
My thought is that the location would be dynamic, and the matches "invite only" meaning, you get asked if on night X, you can be within Y jumps of Jita (or other location). Then 15 mins before your match you get your location, if you bring others, you don't get invited back.

There are many ways it could be done, including JCs (although the 24 hr headache is pita). My other thought is to do it in C1 whs, all combatants enter without scan probe launcher, and then the hole is closed. That could provide the security needed.

AG


Invite-only matches? Secret locations? This sounds like Fight Club (in a good way) and could make for some excellent stories. Smile Best of luck with the idea!

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#28 - 2011-09-30 06:59:22 UTC

I wouldn't mind participating in a an arranged fight...

Unfortunately, the time and energy involved in enforcing a fair fight are probably more than any group wants to endure.
Sivor Detmen
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#29 - 2011-09-30 15:53:05 UTC
I would love to get some "arena like fights" that would hold true 1vs1, 2vs2, or even 1vs2, 2vs3, etc... but enforcing this with the current game mechanics is pretty hard.

Even if you create the system via RvB and annouce matches in local to place bets etc.. most likely someone would just show up with TDs, painters, RR just to ruin it and collect some tears.

If you try to make this through invitation and get the fighters in the same fleet in high sec, getting aggro from can fliping for example, most likely someone will eventually drop your fleet, fleet up rr or corp mates and ruin the match. Doing this through WHs involves way too much work to be worth it and you also have external variables you cannot control. AKA uninvited guests from the depths of space Twisted

You may start doing this and try to create a white/black list with people that honor the fights and those who don't. Maybe also create an insurance for people that got killed because the opponent broke the rules or something or even providing yourself the ships for the fight.

You should also try to get some bets going to generate isk for prizes and for insurance/ship supply. Inviting people to see the fight is probably a bad idea so maybe you could get like a livestream video.

I think the best way to try to do this in a busy system like a trade hub have the fighters jumping out and back in to the system to generate a new sig so people can't probe them fast enough to ruin the fight and meet up in a true safe somewhere for the fight.

However the ammount of work involved in this is huge and you will get frustrated many times, but if you can create a system like this it will be fun.



Sivor
KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-09-30 16:52:51 UTC
Sivor Detmen wrote:
If you try to make this through invitation and get the fighters in the same fleet in high sec, getting aggro from can fliping for example, most likely someone will eventually drop your fleet, fleet up rr or corp mates and ruin the match. Doing this through WHs involves way too much work to be worth it and you also have external variables you cannot control. AKA uninvited guests from the depths of space Twisted


Nope, because you alienate everyone who can't get in highsec due to sec status issues, not to mention FW aggro, things like this... best in lowsec tbh.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#31 - 2011-09-30 22:26:41 UTC
The input has been great (here and in all the evemails), I will be creating a channel to facilitate matches soon. There will be a deposit required, which will be returned to you if you aren't disruptive and actually fight. Fights will be to the pod, however since there is no way to enforce this, you'd better be fast on the clicky w2sun.

If you want to know more details, I'm going to need you to evemail me, this toon, if that's too much trouble, then so will be the arenas.

I'd prefer to start with a 2v2 system as I feel that 1v1 is fairly easy to arrange in high sec, although I am open to suggestions. I would like to use a modified point system per the alliance tournament, with "imbalances" in points being used to affect the spread.

As we get closer to actually starting, I'll discuss betting for those who want to participate.

TRUST

Obviously you will need to extend trust to me, so why don't you search the forums for me, and make your mind up earlier rather than later. While I am happy to discuss things in game, if the body of posts I've made here and the old forums doesn't engender trust, a convo will unlikely do so.

Best,
AG
PS I'm not an RL gambler beyond poker, so if you know much about betting on fights, horse races, etc, I could use your help.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Navarre Fuego
Gaston Mining and INdustrial
#32 - 2011-10-01 11:37:19 UTC
How is this for a proposal :-


  • There are Agents scattered throughout Hisec (and perhaps losec) where people can apply for missions.
  • If people simultaneously (ish) request a mission from the same agent, that agent brokers the Sides and Numbers in the combat so that the sides are evenly matched.
  • The complex would only allow specific levels of ship in, e.g. lvl1 would give frigate missions, lvl 2 Cruiser, lvl 3 BC, Lvl 4 BS, Lvl 5 free access
  • the normal rules of hisec would not apply to the personnel engaged in the mission, but would affect anyone scanning down the plex and interfering. Not sure if this is possible for CCP to do but it would be a good thing to look into.
  • it would be nice to allow a mix of ships in missions, e.g. 6 frigs vs 1BC 1 cruiser from a lvl 3 agent
  • only when all personnel (having declared their ship type) have accepted the mission will the mission site activate and the jump-in points be created


This would work for arena fights just as well as a Raceway concept I outlined on the old fora, which worked thus:-

  • there is a complex per constellation which contains several marker gates through which people can pursue each other
  • it would be nice to have a constellation-wide public access channel for announcing who jumps through which gate (i.e. "Navarre Fuego jumped through gate 2 in Hek Raceway") as well as allowing for Smack for the participants.
  • Whether PvP would be permitted in the Raceway or not is open to question, but if the mechanic is delivered similarly to the above outline, I think it would be possible to permit it.
  • It would be really nice to have the ability to be a spectator at the Raceway but that would rely on it being a public Beacon-like location, which would obviate the PvP aspect except perhaps in Losec raceways (which would attract Pirates like flies to cr@p).


I feel that both of these would be an excellent way of stimulating small-scale PvP without visiting losec and getting pasted by Pirates.
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2011-10-01 19:04:01 UTC
If this is your first night at Fight Club, you HAVE to fight. Twisted

I'm back!
KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-10-02 23:14:43 UTC
Why does everyone keep saying "Highsec"? Pretty much all of the solo/small gang PvPers reside in lowsec and have a low security status because of this way of life. You will be alienating a large portion of the people who would participate in this by making it highsec only.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2011-10-03 03:52:37 UTC
There is no PVP in highsec....

I'm back!
Navarre Fuego
Gaston Mining and INdustrial
#36 - 2011-10-04 21:10:25 UTC
KFenn wrote:
Why does everyone keep saying "Highsec"? Pretty much all of the solo/small gang PvPers reside in lowsec and have a low security status because of this way of life. You will be alienating a large portion of the people who would participate in this by making it highsec only.


er...
Navarre Fuego wrote:

There are Agents scattered throughout Hisec (and perhaps losec) where people can apply for missions.


I would definitely support these agents being in Losec as well as Hisec, but what CCP needs is something to allow people to migrate from Hisec to Losec and this agent proposal might just be a good way of doing that. I don't think the Raceway concept would work that well in Losec because they would just turn into Pirate attractors, so nobody would use them.

As you say, losec gang war already exists and doesn't need anything to stimulate it. Making this agent system would legitimise the conflict in hisec and encourage people to try out PvP there, gradually acclimatising them to the "way of life" you suggest without the sec status hit. This will make them more comfortable about going into Losec, being better equipped for PvP and allowing them to enjoy it more.

Oh, and the mission rewards would go to the winning team. Perhaps there might even be a mechanic to allow the participants to increase the "purse".
KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2011-10-04 21:21:09 UTC
Navarre Fuego wrote:
Losec gang war already exists and doesn't need anything to stimulate it. Making this agent system would legitimise the conflict in hisec and encourage people to try out PvP there, gradually acclimatising them to the "way of life" you suggest without the sec status hit. This will make them more comfortable about going into Losec, being better equipped for PvP and allowing them to enjoy it more.


Firstly, lowsec isn't that dangerous if you don't fly like an idiot. Other than instagib gatecamps you've not really got anything to worry about.

Secondly, lowsec is mostly uninhabited and dead. We do need more to stimulate PvP in this area.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-10-04 21:35:36 UTC
Saw the dev-tag on a pvp-arena thread and was like "please, nooooooo".

I hope CCP realize that player arenas should only ever be a player initiative.
Navarre Fuego
Gaston Mining and INdustrial
#39 - 2011-10-04 21:35:43 UTC
KFenn, a month ago I don't know that I would have agreed with you. I lived in an area of losec which was quite well populated (usually 20+ in system in the gateway system , usually more than a couple of people in systems beyond that) but it appears that since the dominant force in the area collapsed in the face of what would appear to be a relatively minor threat and some high-profile defections, the average population has dropped like a stone.

My point really is that people in hisec don't know the attraction of PvP, and are more scared of losec than they need to be, because I agree losec is often quite quiet. Allowing people to experience hisec PvP would probably ease their concerns, especially if 1/2 the lvl4 agents were in Losec (and all the lvl 5s) which might lead to more non-pirate types choosing to visit and perhaps reside in Losec.

I think what puts most people off losec is the "instagib gatecamps" (wtf does that mean?) you mention.
KFenn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2011-10-04 22:50:39 UTC
Navarre Fuego wrote:
I think what puts most people off losec is the "instagib gatecamps" (wtf does that mean?) you mention.


It's a term that originated in Quake (IIRC) that's short for insta-killing. Basically a gate camp you can't escape from that'll kill you very quickly.

Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade
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