EVE General Discussion

So you agree then ? *hands over a petition form* If I could just get your signature to un-nerf titans and we can get back to the whiners learning to take responsiblity for their actions of flying a ****** T1 battleship and the consequences are that they will lose it to a Titan with Tracking Enhancers. They did appeal to CCP to fix it and CCP did fix it, but you seem to agree with me that Titans should get back their asskicking ability with XL guns.


Cause loss of SP when your ship is destroyed, not just for T3 anymore. Hulk pilot loses SP for flying a crappy ship, gankers lose SP for getting blow up by CONCORD. Destroyers also restricted and nerfed to hell, no more 10-hour heroes as you will now need to be off trial to even fly them.

There! Done! No need to fix a hulk and the consequences are even harsher. Make those miners not want to fly a hulk, then the gankers will have no reason to gank since they don't have easy targets and they will fear losing something of value (SP). SP is the highest form of consequence lost, pretty sure everyone would become more risk adverse to losing it unless there was a really good reason to do so (while not preventing hulks from being immune to being shot! )

Last time I checked, CCP didn't nerf the feasibility of the Battle Hulk simply because people started using the Hulk for purposed outside of mining. CCP nerfed energy vampire modules because they were overpowered. Apparently, back then, a pair of small energy vampire modules could effectively overtake the capacitor of a cruiser. This explained the famous video we all know today in which a Hulk can take down a Caracal (a missile boat).

When CCP nerfed those modules, they inadvertently nerfed the Hulk's ability to effectively battle anything bigger than a destroyer or a frig. The Hulk can still battle, just not take on the cruisers anymore.

If ships were being nerfed because they are being used for purposes outside their original design, then ships like the Orca should have been nerfed ages ago as pirates are able to sneak into high-sec with those ships. The topic was all the rage back then when people first heard of the Orca being used like this since the release of Apocrypha and it still is to this day, yet CCP hasn't done anything about it.

The Iterons were only meant to be haulers, yet people use them to mine. So far, CCP hasn't done anything about that and I see quite a few people use the hauler like that.

Although...

...you are correct that we should not be buffing the Hulk, or any other ship for that matter, simply because of a price difference. It wouldn't matter anyways if the Hulk was buffed because the most dedicated gankers will stop at nothing to kill their target even if it's at a loss. For every buff that is added the mining ships, an extra Catalyst or Thrasher is added to the gank fleet.

It really boils down to the capsuleers, to be honest. It's their fault if they are caught mining in the middle of Hulkageddon or in a system that is heavily visited by pirates while their ship is fitted with no tank because they wanted max yield. And I won't accept the old "well, I didn't know about it" complaint. The tools are there, both in game and out of game to be informed. We Eve players make it as obvious as possible that ganks happen all the time and that they should prepare. Hell, I accepted the loss of my first Hulk when I accidentally strayed into Gallente space back when my standings with them was crap. Did I complain to CCP that I didn't know about the fact that the Gallente hated me then? No. The tools were there to help me know so I had no excuse.

TLDR

Overall, the Hulk is fine as it is and CCP nerfed the mods in question not because of the Hulk's use but because of how overpowered the modules* were for their size.

EDIT:

* - forgot to add this word.

then again... can a destroyer kill a Titan? or a capital warship?

itd be neat if you could O.o

no, interdictors dont count lol

Why shouldn't it be? If I was a business man who moved oil over seas and Somalian pirates attacked one of my ships, I'd have the entire crew armed with guns and RPGs. Any new ships I'd purchase would be harder to board and come with guns and torpedoes.

Darwinism also applies to EVE my friend. If you can't adapt then you will die. Fredfredbug4 is right.


Just EVEvolve with the times either set a Battle Ship in the belt that can run 6 large sheild xfers indefinatly or have a worthless alt shoot one of your miners and bring concord into the belt your mining. Also have a standard hardener / buffer tank set up for all the hulks in your corp. Little things like these will help ensure your safety against your basic solo or even duo gankers. Never wait for CCP to fix something for you. Always find ways to circumvent, get around, or cheat using the tools they have provided for you. After all isn't that what EvE is all about.

keep comparing titans to gank ships it's ~hilarious~

stay in highsec m8

Case and point

I agree.

however... players want to feel their "progression" in the game and the easiest way to achieve that is to make them more powerful.

In EVE the two most obvious indicators of progression are ISK and SP (which can be exchanged for each other on the bazaar) and in reality balancing ships through cost and/or SP requirements is (a) necessary to keep the players happy and (b) accepted practice in EVE (e.g. faction/t2 ships compared to meta0 variants).

In contrast to other forms of progression in EVE (social standing, game knowledge, ...) progression through ISK or SP accumulation is available to anyone - which makes them all the more important .

One of the staple promises of mmos is that (maybe in contrast to RL) you can achieve anything you set your eyes upon as long as you pour enough time/effort into the game.
Once that is no longer true (e.g. because of some successful corporation has exclusivist recruitment practices such as requiring you to have been a member of some OOG community for several months^^) people tend grow very unhappy.
ISK and SP accumulation are available to all, so we tend to have less of a problem with the edge an expensive faction ship might give us in-game than with the power wielded by the CEOs of huge alliances (a form of progression that is available only to very few no matter how hard the other 99% of us try).


(on a related note I could hardly believe my eyes when I read a nature vs nurture debate on the teamliquid forums of all places - "you can achieve anything you want if you only try hard enough" really seems to be a core promise of computer gaming and people don't let go of that notion easily)

At what point does CCP and / or the community decide it's enough?

It has gotten to the point where undocking from jita / amarr / etc is more dangerous than venturing into lowsec.

The current deterrents to ganking are NOT enough to make it the last resort it should be. One suicide gank should have enough of a security status hit to prevent that character from entering highsec until they have grinded up some security status. Until CCP implements a SIGNIFICANT penalty to suicide ganks (no, not just ship loss), highsec is basically pointless.

While I wouldn't want to completely dismiss out of hand an argument that mining ships could use better means of defense, the general argument you point to is indeed dumb. However, if you put yourself in the minds of some those that make it you understand why they make such stupid claims. They come from Mainstream Themepark MMOs where you PvE to gain power, and part of that power is a steady escalation in the strength of their avatar, with the more shiny items equipped the better they get, eventually making them Gods among newbies. It's anathema to them that their ship worth hundreds of millions could be destroyed by a ship that could flown and bought by a poor newbie.