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Increase Warp Acceleration [Condensed]
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Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#1 - 2012-04-06 15:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Copine Callmeknau
Hey guys

Just thinking that maybe the warp acceleration (time to reach full warp speed) could be quicker.

I must say that I don't really notice the difference in warp speed of ships except during exceptionally long warps, and they are few and far between.

Perhaps if the ships reached full warp speed and vice versa re decel in say, half the time it usually takes (number pulled form my arse), you would see warp speed become more of a factor in ship choice, promoting mobility and hopefully helping small gang PvP.

I'll clarify what I mean

I'm talking about the time between the end of your align time and the point you reach full warp speed, and the time taken to decelerate from full warp back down to grid speeds.

If you for instance, take a covops and perform a short warp (20AU or so), hover over the speed gauge as you do this. You'll see that you'll only be at full warp speed for a fraction of a second, and that the vast majority of the warp is taken up by the ship accelerating and then decelerating.

It's the reason warp speed increases such as rigs or implants aren't very effective/popular, as on a fast warp ship very little time is actually spent at full speed, so you don't notice much difference when you increase it.

This is something you would feel more in a frigate than a battleship, the faster the ship warps, the more time is spent in accel/decel compared to full speed.

I'd just like this accel/decel to be shortened so that fast warp ships actually *feel* like they're warping fast, and so there is a real (or at least less niche) tactical/mobility advantage to having a fast warping ship.
I believe this would make PvP much more dynamic, and really help to bring a tangible delineation between ship classes in EVE

Flame away

***
Some alternate suggestions and insight
Tippia wrote:
They have been wanting to do this for quite some time, but it's one of those “the guy who coded the warp mechanics is the only one who understands it” issues. As in, it was done in 2001 and has never seen the light of day since… P

Fixing this would require them ripping apart the entire physics simulation, figuring out what does what, changing stuff, putting it back together, and praying that it worked. It will probably happen some day, but it's such an invasive fix in a critical (and yet largely unknown) part, that it would either have to be a very high priority, or something that a single dev decided to do on his own without any direction or support from above.

Yes, it would be nice if warp acceleration — hell, warp speed to begin with, for short-to-mid range jumps — mattered more. It's just, apparently, a really messy issue to fix. Cry

This would be the reason that accel/decel changes haven't happened so far, and why alternate solutions should be looked into


Tobiaz wrote:
One big downside of this, is the fact that it would make travel even faster then it already is.

Why not simply slash all warp-speeds so the top-speed is achieved more often, making a difference that way? Too fast travel is the main culprit behind blobbing and superhubs.

This is an alternate solution that would be easier to implement. Though results in longer travel time (a good or bad thing, depending on who you ask, for what it's worth I consider it good)


Callic Veratar wrote:
I've proposed similar ideas in the past.

I like the idea of ships having NO acceleration time. Once they've aligned they disappear like Star Trek warp or Star Wars light speed. The ship is just gone with engine trails fading off on the launch vector.

The trade off would need to be a significant reduction in max warp speed (an average 1AU/s would make a 20AU jump about the same duration).

Another decent idea, but likely a challenge to implement.

Kais Klip wrote:

Maybe CCP is trying to hold on to atleast some final strand of realism?

I agree with your intent, and the fact that we've already abandoned so much realism means a green light should be given whenever it is tactical depth vs realism, to a sensible degree.

For a solution: change the AU velocity to acceleration (without a velocity cap, you'll get some peeps trying to find the longest warp possible in order to break a speedrecord), then we'll see a more significant difference between AU speed classes.

This is another good suggestion

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#2 - 2012-04-11 15:20:32 UTC
up

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Admiral Lysander
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-04-11 15:25:31 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Hey guys

Just thinking that maybe the warp acceleration (time to reach full warp speed) could be quicker.

I must say that I don't really notice the difference in warp speed of ships except during exceptionally long warps, and they are few and far between.

Perhaps if the ships reached full warp speed (and vice versa re decel) in say, half the time it usually takes, you would see warp speed become more of a factor in ship choice, promoting mobility and hopefully helping small gang PvP.

Flame away



MEGA FAIL thers already was of boosting ur warp speed time as well as ur alighn time
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#4 - 2012-04-11 15:31:33 UTC
Admiral Lysander wrote:
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Hey guys

Just thinking that maybe the warp acceleration (time to reach full warp speed) could be quicker.

I must say that I don't really notice the difference in warp speed of ships except during exceptionally long warps, and they are few and far between.

Perhaps if the ships reached full warp speed (and vice versa re decel) in say, half the time it usually takes, you would see warp speed become more of a factor in ship choice, promoting mobility and hopefully helping small gang PvP.

Flame away



MEGA FAIL thers already was of boosting ur warp speed time as well as ur alighn time

MEGA FAIL, for not knowing the difference between warp speed/align and warp acceleration

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Byrrssa Crendraven
Anti - Social
#5 - 2012-04-11 15:45:29 UTC
In all honesty Copine, I don't see where this is necessary for frigates and such. These are already pretty quick ships. They get up to speed and everything very fast. Basically what you're asking for is instawarp capabilities. Now, I know from the fanfest videos that CCP is considering something similar to what you want...but, it's only for a very short distance... I think that's what I saw...there was so much information... You might want to check them out. :)
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#6 - 2012-04-11 16:28:59 UTC
mmmh I'll clarify what I mean

I'm talking about the time between the end of your align time and the point you reach full warp speed, and the time taken to decelerate from full warp back down to grid speeds.

If you for instance, take a covops and perform a short warp (20AU or so), hover over the speed gauge as you do this. You'll see that you'll only be at full warp speed for a fraction of a second, and that the vast majority of the warp is taken up by the ship accelerating and then decelerating.

It's the reason warp speed increases aren't very effective/popular, as on a fast warp ship very little time is actually spent at full speed, so you don't notice much difference when you increase it.

This is something you would feel more in a frigate than a battleship, the faster the ship warps, the more time is spent in accel/decel compared to full speed.

I'd just like this accel/decel to be shortened so that fast warp ships actually *feel* like they're warping fast, and so there is a real (or at least less niche) tactical/mobility advantage to having a fast warping ship

There should be a rather awesome pic here
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2012-04-11 16:33:40 UTC
I believe agility mods affect both the sub-warp and warp-speed acceleration. Maybe try fitting some nanos or such and see if that makes a difference.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#8 - 2012-04-11 16:41:26 UTC
I think total warp time should be equal to the distance divided by the ship's nominal warp speed. Nominal warp speeds would have to be adjusted, but warp speed mods would become relevant...

I think I measured it over 20 AU at 9 AU/s and 3 AU/s and found the 9 AU/s ship to finish in 38 seconds versus 3 AU/s in 45 or so. It was ridiculously non-proportional, in any case.
Sun Jince
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-11 16:49:18 UTC
+1

would cut down travelling time without breaking game mechanics.
Also makes it having more fun flying fast warping ships, beause then you actually will be and feel fast
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-11 16:51:30 UTC
mxzf wrote:
I believe agility mods affect both the sub-warp and warp-speed acceleration. Maybe try fitting some nanos or such and see if that makes a difference.


They do not.

The way it currently works is that if I have my 13.5 AU/s interceptor, and my 0.7 AU/s freighter full speed alligned for the same destination, and hit warp at the same moment, they will both go to warp at the same time, and stay in the warp bubble with each other until both ships hit a speed of 0.7 AU/s (or 3 AU/s for most ships), at which point the interceptor keeps accelerating and blazes ahead of the freighter.

This means that on short warps my ceptor's higher AU/s warp speed is barely noticeable, and on very short warps (where you never accelerate beyond an AU/s) it is totally useless.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#11 - 2012-04-11 16:52:20 UTC
mxzf wrote:
I believe agility mods affect both the sub-warp and warp-speed acceleration. Maybe try fitting some nanos or such and see if that makes a difference.

They *may*, but if they do I don't feel they make enough of a difference, or that the base accel/decel time is still too long

I'm basing this on comparing a pod and an inertia stabbed covops warping 20-30au.
Fleet warp is initiated by the covops, pod always arrives at destination long before the covops, even though the covops is warping over 4x faster than the pod.
The obvious reason for this is align times, the pod aligns first, and gets a head start on the warp. Nothing wrong with the pod aligning first, the problem is that both ships are in warp for a similar amount of time, even though one has a 4x higher warp speed.
This of course, is because most of the covops warp time is eaten up by the incredibly slow accel/decel.

Yes yes, on long warps that covops will beat the pod, but as most people know the majority of warping you do is shortwarping.
I just feel that decreasing the accel/decel time to a point that warp speeds are noticeable on short warps would bring a new dynamic to PvP, and add some additional flavour between the ship classes beyind the size of guns/tank

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2012-04-11 19:06:10 UTC

I think this would be a good change....

+1
Plato Idari
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#13 - 2012-04-11 19:16:54 UTC
I think this would help differentiate interceptors from assault frigates in a positive way. +1
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-11 19:21:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
This would rule, as there would actually be tangible benefits to flying smaller ships in your average system.

Also they need to make T3 cruisers do 3.8AU/s or whatever HAC warp speed is (currently its almost impossible to chase anything in T3s-- even BCs etc) but that's another matter.

It would own bones if they could base this on fitted ship mass :3
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#15 - 2012-04-11 19:23:33 UTC
+1 would like in a skillbook form.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-04-11 19:24:50 UTC
I agree, warp acceleration needs to be faster.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Plato Idari
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#17 - 2012-04-11 22:38:37 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
+1 would like in a skillbook form.

A skill for faster warp acceleration sounds good too.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-04-11 22:58:14 UTC
+1 for accelerated warp

If you ever fit a ship to fly faster than 12 AU/s (say because you wanted a super-speedy shuttle), you've wasted your money. You'll never go faster than 11 AU/s before you start to decelerate. A little bit bollocks if you ask me. It's not like having speedy AFK-shuttles will wreck the economy.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-12 00:19:46 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
+1 for accelerated warp

If you ever fit a ship to fly faster than 12 AU/s (say because you wanted a super-speedy shuttle), you've wasted your money. You'll never go faster than 11 AU/s before you start to decelerate. A little bit bollocks if you ask me. It's not like having speedy AFK-shuttles will wreck the economy.


There are plenty of systems in highsec with warps where you can reach 13.5, but few where you shave more then 2-3s off the time of a slower ship
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#20 - 2012-04-12 01:22:33 UTC
I hate how warping feels more like a slingshot effect. It should be instant
+1

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
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