Science & Industry

I don't have much experience in null sec (only spent a few weeks there) but from my figures even with the increases in mineral prices it still isn't profitable to mine in null sec as an indy corp. PVP players that have mining alts will benefit from doing basic mining but really when it comes down to the ability to profit most null sec alliances simply want too much and offer to little for it to be worth it for an indy corp to focus on null sec full time. Indy mining corps in null sec is a win win for the alliance and other corps in the alliance, but its a lose lose for the indy corp.

For example
- 10% to all mining yield off the top (for refining)
- 10% yield to a belt ratter / scout / protection (while doing mining ops)
- 10% yield to indy corp for costs.
- 300m isk for pos per month
- 500m isk for ship losses (assume 2 ships lost per month)
- costs for manufacturing
- logistics costs for importing / exporting
- mining time loss from there simply not being enough belts available, war, nuts in system, etc


Also in regards to ship building or any type of manufacturing, why would an indy corp want to pay 20% of their yield + high manufacturing costs + high logistics costs of importing minerals to manufacture ships for an alliance (most likely at a discount)? Really I am asking this since I don't see how it could be profitable.


And again my null sec experience is pretty limited, so I'm not stating this is how it is, but has been my experience, or what other players have said. Unless alliances / nullsec corps have more to offer indy other than you can setup a POS and you can sometimes mine good ores that we tax you heavily on, why would indy corps want to make the move?

Oh most of the costs I listed were not charges the alliance makes, but general costs that go with being in null sec or in general wherever you may be. For example the 10% yield payout to a ratter would be the payment for someone in belt to handle ratting / shield transfering to AFK miners, etc, similar to whatever the payouts would be for miners, haulers, etc. But its an extra cost required to handle the rats that spawn in null. 10% take to corp is a pretty standard amount corps take from mining ops (to pay corp costs, whatever). and so on.

The point I was trying to get at was when you compare mining profit minus nullsec specific costs mining in high sec still seems to be much more profitable for an indy corp. While a pvp/pve player with a mining alt would be the person who will be getting the most out of the prices / planned changes in regards to nullsec.

Lots of 0.0 alliances have a small industrial corp or wings in hisec / people that move between null and hisec. NPC station refine is usually better then pos or built station refining without as much isk investment, and without the risk. I know a few people that use their rorquals to compress ore to refine in hisec.

however, i dont know any solo miners out in null, and by that i mean players with only one account. the baseline i've seen is four. four active mining characters at a time. (or three with an orca) but the added costs of mining out in null tend to outweigh the benifits of serious mining out in null. four miners are generally enough to mine the abc ores out of a few belts before they have to dock/pos hug because of neutrals or rl obligations. trit not worth enough (still) to be mined in bulk in null to make it more worthwhile then abc even with the added costs of cynos and jump fuel to hisec. my friends would lose more in pos/station refine then the costs of jump fuel to hisec.

this is not true of everywhere, but many places its only on scale that mining in null becomes profitable. recruiting indy corps is pretty hard not because of unavilability of miners but because of the security issues of miners in null. Not every miner has a rorqual or even carrier available to them to get out to null. much less the required start up isk to make the several fleet bs/other ships they will need for ctas.

Defending space is a big issue especially in the age of 50-100 supercap fleets with +300 cap supports. its hard for a specialized mienr to even contemplate defending or helping to defend space with that sort of threat facing them. Im not saying those things need to get changed, many people do take that risk, its just a whole lot easier for a casual player to do the hisec day in and day out safe mining route then sov changes and cloak neutral/reds in local route. its really annoying when your mining base in null is restricted by alliance, and there are reds cloaked in local.