These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

STRIKE Cannon Ship
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Admiral Lysander
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-10 17:56:08 UTC
Ok this is somethin that poped to mind when i found my old copy of COLONY WARS lol "good old game PSX
and a wile i remembered a cruiser hull type ship called a STRIKE ASSUALT CRAFT

For ppl who never played the game Basicly it was a giant cannon with an drive system, the ship was mainly used to take
on the game version of SUPER CAP ship

so i want to open the floor to this idea if its nt been dne yet

to simplify it a possible DD cruiser with no module slot apart from wha the DD needs and only allow it to target SUIPER CAP's

here come the troll's
Admiral Lysander
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-10 17:57:11 UTC
Admiral Lysander wrote:
Ok this is somethin that poped to mind when i found my old copy of COLONY WARS lol "good old game PSX
and then i remembered a cruiser hull type ship called a STRIKE ASSUALT CRAFT from the game

For ppl who never played the game Basicly it was a giant cannon with an drive system, the ship was mainly used to take
on the game version of SUPER CAP ship

so i want to open the floor to this idea if its nt been dne yet in le forum

to simplify it a possible DD cruiser with no module slot apart from wha the DD needs and only allow it to target SUIPER CAP's

here come the troll's
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#3 - 2012-04-10 18:14:26 UTC
Theory says you could use Stealth Bombers in this role already, but to actually be a threat to capital and supercap ships we'd have to have a larger model that takes XL launchers.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Admiral Lysander
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-10 18:38:01 UTC
cap bomber sounds cool but would be cool to see a giant death cannon ship

would be the nightmare of supercap pilots
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#5 - 2012-04-10 21:06:35 UTC
Admiral Lysander wrote:
cap bomber sounds cool but would be cool to see a giant death cannon ship

would be the nightmare of supercap pilots

Just had an idea.

How about you mount a special weapon on the ship, that does insane damage, only works on cap ships, but is more than the ship itself can actually fire by itself.

On the surface, the idea sounds nuts. here is the hook: You need the support of other ships transferring energy to you in order to fire the weapon.
The more power they pump into your ship, the more power the weapon has to do damage with.

A group of guardians or basilisks could form the strike team with one or two of the weapon ships, collectively they would be a special ops unit sent out to assassinate caps and supercaps.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
CaleAdaire
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#6 - 2012-04-10 21:14:27 UTC
I actually like where this thread is going. For once someone proposed a ship that not only could fill a vital roll, it wouldn't be OP and it would be immensely versatile. Maybe force it to do a full overheat to use the weapon or the effect of the weapon is so devastating that firing it once kills all armor and a second firing destroys the hull. Now its not a one time use ship, it can fire multiple salvos but it takes extreme coordination to effectively implement.

Trust in God, Have Faith in Fusion.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-04-10 21:29:23 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Theory says you could use Stealth Bombers in this role already, but to actually be a threat to capital and supercap ships we'd have to have a larger model that takes XL launchers.

And I was a proponent of this idea to counter Titans tracking sub caps. Instead of flying battleships that kept getting owned by Titans with a ton of tracking mods in the lows and being pinned down by support ships, put those same guys in battleships into Frigates or Cruisers that shoot Citadel missiles (Frigs would act like a bomber, but only able to fire three missiles before rearming from off grid source, Cruisers act the same, but get a larger cargo bay to carry a few dozen). Lets you counter a Titan with smaller ships that are harder to get pinned down by other ships withs webs and target painters, lets smaller ships put the hurt on bigger ships forcing them to fit thicker tank and less tracking mods.

But CCP elected to instead lower the bar so the whiners feel like winners. And a proper fitted Titan could counter a tracking titan but if you can't / won't / don't / refuse to fly a super cap I don't see why it had to be made easier for so you can feel like a hero instead of a zero Roll since EVE isn't fair to begin with Lol
Admiral Lysander
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-04-11 00:25:06 UTC
[quote=CaleAdaire]I actually like where this thread is going. For once someone proposed a ship that not only could fill a vital roll, it wouldn't be OP and it would be immensely versatile. Maybe force it to do a full overheat to use the weapon or the effect of the weapon is so devastating that firing it once kills all armor and a second firing destroys the hull. Now its not a one time use ship, it can fire multiple salvos but it takes extreme coordination to effectively implement.[/quote


well i was think of it haveing ammo so large it could take upto a min to even load, as well as being so large u can only fit 5 or so units.

To top it off as the cannon would be the size of a BC or even BS with the drive off a cruiser the allighning time would be slow leaveing it easy ganking prey, plus the ship needs to allighn to the target before i should be aloud to fire off a shot

would restrict it enough so it carnt go wacko
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#9 - 2012-04-11 07:06:18 UTC
How's about simply making a battleship that can use one XL gun, and nothing else on its slots except maybe utility highs?
Auron Solaris
Karma's Call
#10 - 2012-04-11 13:08:03 UTC
I like the concept of a number of ships feeding power into a heavy weapons class ship, it should really require fleets resources like teamwork and planning to be able to make use of anti capital technology. I personally don't think that a single ship should be able to pull off such a devastating attack that can result in the destruction of a capital. many of you will probably disagree with me but how can a ship with such capabilities ignore signature radius, and therefore the destructive capabilities of the enemy fleets various sized vessels. For this reason I feel that a number of specialized ships should be required to fill this role. also I will add that these ships on their own should be able to do substantial damage to a capital, but not totally take it out, only with fleet member support should it be possible to take out a capital ship.

I believe such technology should take form in a module form, and be applicable on a cruiser sized ship. these ships are merely transport vessels with limited defensive capabilities. once a number vessels take up position in cargo exchangeable distance from each other then then they can deploy their cargo. The first phase is a weapons scrambler and shield generator. each of these on their own will only be able to take care of a limited amount of damage and sensor strength. but the key here should be to over lap the generators shield bubbles, the more generators that are successfully deployed then the more they can deal with. there will of course be a cost associated with this and the generators will only have a limited time of on board power, it will be up to the fleet to maintain the generators capacitor while this is all happening. the goal here is to be able to establish a sufficient amount of "under cover" space to be able to deploy the 2nd phase concentration deployment's

These second phase deployable's are pretty much broken up into the power transfer relays and the weapon itself, the relays will not hold any power once deployed and they will require a large amount of energy to be able to begin power transfer to the weapon. also like the shields the more relays that are deployed the faster the energy transfer to the weapon, also the greater amount of damage dealt onto the capital ship. this is all fleet orientated and without the key concepts put in place at the right time it will fail, the shields still have a maximum mount of damage that they can deal with, the fleet has to balance providing energy to the shields and the weapons transfer relays. and if that's not enough the weapon wont fire unless it has sufficient target painting. yes you heard my correctly specialized target painting equipped ships are required to calibrate the weapons sensors, since the fleets generators are disrupting sensors strength its up to specialized fleet members to sufficiently target paint the ship in question, transfer the co ordinates through a secured network in the fleet which then reaches the weapon itself. once everything has been put in place, a fleet member who has the required skills and roles in the fleet is given the honer to activate the weapon, The degree of damage dealt is purely up to the success of the whole exercise.

its a totally different idea I know but its what I imagine to be suitable for anti capital tech
Admiral Lysander
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-04-11 15:41:52 UTC
Auron Solaris wrote:
I like the concept of a number of ships feeding power into a heavy weapons class ship, it should really require fleets resources like teamwork and planning to be able to make use of anti capital technology. I personally don't think that a single ship should be able to pull off such a devastating attack that can result in the destruction of a capital. many of you will probably disagree with me but how can a ship with such capabilities ignore signature radius, and therefore the destructive capabilities of the enemy fleets various sized vessels. For this reason I feel that a number of specialized ships should be required to fill this role. also I will add that these ships on their own should be able to do substantial damage to a capital, but not totally take it out, only with fleet member support should it be possible to take out a capital ship.

I believe such technology should take form in a module form, and be applicable on a cruiser sized ship. these ships are merely transport vessels with limited defensive capabilities. once a number vessels take up position in cargo exchangeable distance from each other then then they can deploy their cargo. The first phase is a weapons scrambler and shield generator. each of these on their own will only be able to take care of a limited amount of damage and sensor strength. but the key here should be to over lap the generators shield bubbles, the more generators that are successfully deployed then the more they can deal with. there will of course be a cost associated with this and the generators will only have a limited time of on board power, it will be up to the fleet to maintain the generators capacitor while this is all happening. the goal here is to be able to establish a sufficient amount of "under cover" space to be able to deploy the 2nd phase concentration deployment's

These second phase deployable's are pretty much broken up into the power transfer relays and the weapon itself, the relays will not hold any power once deployed and they will require a large amount of energy to be able to begin power transfer to the weapon. also like the shields the more relays that are deployed the faster the energy transfer to the weapon, also the greater amount of damage dealt onto the capital ship. this is all fleet orientated and without the key concepts put in place at the right time it will fail, the shields still have a maximum mount of damage that they can deal with, the fleet has to balance providing energy to the shields and the weapons transfer relays. and if that's not enough the weapon wont fire unless it has sufficient target painting. yes you heard my correctly specialized target painting equipped ships are required to calibrate the weapons sensors, since the fleets generators are disrupting sensors strength its up to specialized fleet members to sufficiently target paint the ship in question, transfer the co ordinates through a secured network in the fleet which then reaches the weapon itself. once everything has been put in place, a fleet member who has the required skills and roles in the fleet is given the honer to activate the weapon, The degree of damage dealt is purely up to the success of the whole exercise.

its a totally different idea I know but its what I imagine to be suitable for anti capital tech




Your just makeing it harder tho, from what your say]ing ur goin need get CCP to creat like 20 new ship. That takes time real money and so many ppl working on it remember every race will have the own class of cannon and dood ur commeent breaks the idea that

ITS A GIANT ******* GUN WITH A DRIVE its not a dame ship it a cannon with drive system,

also everything u say makes it far to complex than it needs to with at least a 1 min load time and anything
from 2 - 5 min alighn B4 being able to shoot as well as a charge up cycle to fire

we already have small fleet support in the game what we dnt have are scared little cap pilots as the dmg from the cannon
would take out carriers and dreds in one shot Super Caps more (can be more to depending on fit and if triage is used

so ur concept is fail simple things work why would you want to carry PARTS of a giant gun in a cargo bay were if one is lost its GAME OVER,

lol FAIL
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#12 - 2012-04-11 19:18:53 UTC
Almost sounds like the system defense cannons Concord are installing in high sec.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-04-11 21:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
as long as it's a cruiser with 1 hi slot and requires immobility via deployment to fire this could be acceptable. It should fill a very specific role and be completely useless against non-supercaps.


It would be a cruiser with an XL weapon with virtually no speed or tank that must enter a deployed mode to fire.

Such ships would have no armor and no shield (meaning they cant be remote repped) requiring everything they have to not be destroyed by the weight and power of the weapons they carry.


This would also make interceptors a bit more useful, warp in and take out the cruisers
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-04-11 21:57:36 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
as long as it's a cruiser with 1 hi slot and requires immobility via deployment to fire this could be acceptable. It should fill a very specific role and be completely useless against non-supercaps.


It would be a cruiser with an XL weapon with virtually no speed or tank that must enter a deployed mode to fire.

Such ships would have no armor and no shield (meaning they cant be remote repped) requiring everything they have to not be destroyed by the weight and power of the weapons they carry.


This would also make interceptors a bit more useful, warp in and take out the cruisers


Remote hull reps exist you know.
Pampers Toralen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-04-11 22:52:47 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
[quote=Admiral Lysander]cap bomber sounds cool but would be cool to see a giant death cannon ship



On the surface, the idea sounds nuts. here is the hook: You need the support of other ships transferring energy to you in order to fire the weapon.
The more power they pump into your ship, the more power the weapon has to do damage with.

A group of guardians or basilisks could form the strike team with one or two of the weapon ships, collectively they would be a special ops unit sent out to assassinate caps and supercaps.


you good sir, hit the nail on the head i was thinking the same thing, 4 ships transporting something to ship 5, ship 5 gaines said something and fires. a hudge dps shot with 5min cooldown????
Auron Solaris
Karma's Call
#16 - 2012-04-12 07:33:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Auron Solaris
I did say my idea was different and yes its rather complex but in case you have forgotten eve is a subscription based game and as such we can all expect some complex game mechanics to be drawn up and implemented.

To be honest here Lysander I don't feel a cruiser sized ship could really fill such a role. firstly they would make primary targets straight of the bat so the ship would get taken out before it can warm up its over sized weapon. How then do you think that any cruiser sized vessel would be able to deal with such a problem.

You need instantaneous implementation of such a weapon but how is that supposed to work with requirements such as energy transfer support.

But my real disagreement here is that a cruiser sized ship, even with fleet support should not have the capacity to take out a capital, it should be through the efforts of an entire fleet that the destruction of a capital takes place
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#17 - 2012-04-12 16:51:03 UTC
Pampers Toralen wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
[quote=Admiral Lysander]cap bomber sounds cool but would be cool to see a giant death cannon ship



On the surface, the idea sounds nuts. here is the hook: You need the support of other ships transferring energy to you in order to fire the weapon.
The more power they pump into your ship, the more power the weapon has to do damage with.

A group of guardians or basilisks could form the strike team with one or two of the weapon ships, collectively they would be a special ops unit sent out to assassinate caps and supercaps.


you good sir, hit the nail on the head i was thinking the same thing, 4 ships transporting something to ship 5, ship 5 gaines said something and fires. a hudge dps shot with 5min cooldown????

Not sure a cooldown is even needed to last 5 minutes, that is an eternity in a fleet engagement, and the group would be tactically advised to warp to a safe to wait out the cooldown.
Keep in mind, the value the enemy fleet places on their caps will make them primary anything that can threaten them, in order of recognized threat. They may be lucky to get off even one shot.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
bartos100
Living Ghost
#18 - 2012-04-12 17:15:37 UTC
i had a crazy idea

make a beam weapon that once fired keeps apllying dps based on the amount of cap it has available

making it useless on tis own but highly effective in an organized fleet
Admiral Lysander
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-12 18:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Admiral Lysander
Auron Solaris wrote:
I did say my idea was different and yes its rather complex but in case you have forgotten eve is a subscription based game and as such we can all expect some complex game mechanics to be drawn up and implemented

To be honest here Lysander I don't feel a cruiser sized ship could really fill such a role. firstly they would make primary targets straight of the bat so the ship would get taken out before it can warm up its over sized weapon. How then do you think that any cruiser sized vessel would be able to deal with such a problem

You need instantaneous implementation of such a weapon but how is that supposed to work with requirements such as energy transfer support

But my real disagreement here is that a cruiser sized ship, even with fleet support should not have the capacity to take out a capital, it should be through the efforts of an entire fleet that the destruction of a capital takes place


the effort from the fleet is to cover them and rep ther shield, what are logi's for. you realy think my idea is a oneshot deal lol nothin in this game is so simple

As for them being primary targets because off them being cruiser's well lets see here,
ther goin to be number 1 on any cap ships fleet primarys anyway because off ther threat to them,

and i never said out right that it shud be a cruiser class ship, i only said a cruiser drive system on cannon that is the size of a actual battleship,

as for ur energy transfair, the ship need a good 90% of its cap to fire and since its reactors main job is to supply power for its gun it a good cap regen but no passive shield regen ergo the logi and fleet support
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#20 - 2012-04-12 18:25:25 UTC
Admiral Lysander wrote:
as for ur energy transfair, the ship need a good 90% of its cap to fire and since its reactors main job is to supply power for its gun it a good cap regen but no passive shield regen ergo the logi and fleet support

Just quoting the relevant part here.

I think the biggest objection people might have, is that it could be too easy to pop caps with this version.

Let me explain. Your ship may not have any meaningful defense, as you pointed out, but neither does it need one to become unbalancing.
Even if it could only get off one shot, fleets could easily dedicate wings of these to alpha cap ships. Simply calculate how many shots it would take, and have at least one ship for each.
(If it takes more than 20, you idea was probably underpowered for it's stated purpose)

I put out a modified version, that relied specifically on energy transfers to power the weapon itself. I suggested using guardians and basilisks because they are logi boats that are designed to do this, as well as keep ships alive long enough to complete mission goals.

Under this version, the ship is still a threat, but it is a manageable one, and not an 'I Win' button against caps. A few squads of logi's plus these would also allow logi pilots to contribute to engagements is a more meaningful way. (I would code it to include the pilots who were transferring the energy on the kill mail too)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
12Next page