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"New direction" = Incarna's hit massive production delays?

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Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-09-27 20:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
I don't want to read into dev messages something that doesn't exist, but I feel I have to ask. This new direction that CCP talks about is really only a week old. Meaning before that they were still chugging along full force in the old direction.

Yet the old direction has only delivered one CQ. According to CCP, work started on that CQ in January. From January to Incarna's release, the art and coding combined seemed to had taken an enormous amount of time for such a small amount of content.

So how much of this new direction is because Incarna has fallen significantly behind schedule and can't be completed in the promised amount of time? How much of this new tune is "Oh crap, we can't deliver so let's scrap together some new ship models and rebalance some stuff and redo 0.0 in the time we have left!"?

I'm basing this on something said earlier today in a dev post. It seems like there is some backtracking happening with Incarna's deployment schedule. And this backtracking is being attributed to "refocusing." I'd like to think the refocusing is a genuine change of heart, but now I'm starting to wonder.

Other devs have claimed that establishments are ready to go. But we've seen nothing. Are they really ready? If so, why hedge on their deployment? Is it that CCP is worried about the amount of time that'll have to be spent supporting them with additional content later on, so they're rethinking them? Or are they not as complete as was implied?

I'm just curious. I don't know the answer, and this is all speculation.
Astir Zekor
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-09-27 20:54:16 UTC
Pure speculation but sound one and fit CCP modus operandi very well.
Blueburt
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-27 20:54:32 UTC
I'm sure the establishments may be ready to go. But not a lot of peoples computer's can run 100+ character models. Including their own maybe?
Astir Zekor
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-09-27 20:56:00 UTC
Blueburt wrote:
I'm sure the establishments may be ready to go. But not a lot of people computer's can run 100+ character models. Including their own maybe?


Aye and we all know optimalization is the hardest part. They might hit the road block right there.
Zey Nadar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-09-27 20:57:36 UTC
Astir Zekor wrote:
Pure speculation but sound one and fit CCP modus operandi very well.


Speculation is what the forums are for.

And topic sounds likely.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-09-27 20:57:38 UTC
Astir Zekor wrote:
Blueburt wrote:
I'm sure the establishments may be ready to go. But not a lot of people computer's can run 100+ character models. Including their own maybe?


Aye and we all know optimalization is the hardest part. They might hit the road block right there.



Not to be overly conspiratorial, but that there sounds very possible.
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-27 21:26:18 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
I don't want to read into dev messages something that doesn't exist, but I feel I have to ask. This new direction that CCP talks about is really only a week old. Meaning before that they were still chugging along full force in the old direction.

Yet the old direction has only delivered one CQ. According to CCP, work started on that CQ in January. From January to Incarna's release, the art and coding combined seemed to had taken an enormous amount of time for such a small amount of content.

So how much of this new direction is because Incarna has fallen significantly behind schedule and can't be completed in the promised amount of time? How much of this new tune is "Oh crap, we can't deliver so let's scrap together some new ship models and rebalance some stuff and redo 0.0 in the time we have left!"?

I'm basing this on something said earlier today in a dev post. It seems like there is some backtracking happening with Incarna's deployment schedule. And this backtracking is being attributed to "refocusing." I'd like to think the refocusing is a genuine change of heart, but now I'm starting to wonder.

Other devs have claimed that establishments are ready to go. But we've seen nothing. Are they really ready? If so, why hedge on their deployment? Is it that CCP is worried about the amount of time that'll have to be spent supporting them with additional content later on, so they're rethinking them? Or are they not as complete as was implied?

I'm just curious. I don't know the answer, and this is all speculation.


I wouldn't miss one bit "establishments" or the other CQs.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#8 - 2011-09-27 21:32:21 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
I don't want to read into dev messages something that doesn't exist, but I feel I have to ask. This new direction that CCP talks about is really only a week old. Meaning before that they were still chugging along full force in the old direction.


No, the upcoming stuff the CSM has been discussing with CCP has been in the planning stages for a few weeks at least.

Jada Maroo wrote:
Yet the old direction has only delivered one CQ. According to CCP, work started on that CQ in January. From January to Incarna's release, the art and coding combined seemed to had taken an enormous amount of time for such a small amount of content.


Yep.

Jada Maroo wrote:
So how much of this new direction is because Incarna has fallen significantly behind schedule and can't be completed in the promised amount of time? How much of this new tune is "Oh crap, we can't deliver so let's scrap together some new ship models and rebalance some stuff and redo 0.0 in the time we have left!"?


I don't think it's that so much as current subscriber numbers have flat lined and that opens eyes and changes minds faster than anything.

Jada Maroo wrote:
I'm basing this on something said earlier today in a dev post. It seems like there is some backtracking happening with Incarna's deployment schedule. And this backtracking is being attributed to "refocusing." I'd like to think the refocusing is a genuine change of heart, but now I'm starting to wonder.

[Other devs have claimed that establishments are ready to go. But we've seen nothing. Are they really ready? If so, why hedge on their deployment? Is it that CCP is worried about the amount of time that'll have to be spent supporting them with additional content later on, so they're rethinking them? Or are they not as complete as was implied?

I'm just curious. I don't know the answer, and this is all speculation.


Almost makes you wish that there was a dev blog that would actually answer these very simple questions, eh? We're working on it. Hopefully we'll see more info very soon so everyone can start looking forward instead of all this windmilling speculation that's being caused by CCP's terrible messaging.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2011-09-27 21:50:00 UTC
It wouldn't surprise me, but to be honest, I don't care if it means that they put Second Life in Space on the back-burner and start working on proper Eve again

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#10 - 2011-09-27 21:54:30 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me, but to be honest, I don't care if it means that they put Second Life in Space on the back-burner and start working on proper Eve again


What boggles the mind is why the only CQ they released so far is the slum-like Minmatar one. Not very sci-fi at all tbh. Smile

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-27 22:06:19 UTC
It doesn't surprise me at all. The Minmatar CQ was intentionally designed to look like a rusting, decrepit piece of **** so even when CCP screwed it up they'd get the look right anyways.
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-27 22:10:27 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
It doesn't surprise me at all. The Minmatar CQ was intentionally designed to look like a rusting, decrepit piece of **** so even when CCP screwed it up they'd get the look right anyways.


This made me laugh Lol

Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#13 - 2011-09-27 22:13:38 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me, but to be honest, I don't care if it means that they put Second Life in Space on the back-burner and start working on proper Eve again


What boggles the mind is why the only CQ they released so far is the slum-like Minmatar one. Not very sci-fi at all tbh. Smile


Utilitarian caldari, art-déco gallente and religious amarr quarters are not as pirate-ey as scrap-metal cyberpunk minmattar. Yarrrrr'n stuff.


Honestly though both possibilities are not mutually exclusive. CCP might have realized that delivering the rest of Incarna will take a lot longer then expected AAND the players are not/will not be that interested in it to warrant that amount of work.

So in a sense Incarna was good to show them that We Dont Care™.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2011-09-27 22:26:18 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me, but to be honest, I don't care if it means that they put Second Life in Space on the back-burner and start working on proper Eve again


What boggles the mind is why the only CQ they released so far is the slum-like Minmatar one. Not very sci-fi at all tbh. Smile


Imagine how that makes a proud Amarrian feel Cry

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Andrea Griffin
#15 - 2011-09-27 22:30:55 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
So how much of this new direction is because Incarna has fallen significantly behind schedule and can't be completed in the promised amount of time?
Like you, I haven't any idea if this is true or not. However, if it is, CCP should remember that we're a pretty reasonable bunch for the most part. If they came out and said, "We thought we could get it done, we couldn't, we are really, really, really sorry that we derped it up, but here's what we have so far tell us what you think" then most of us would nod our heads and say, "Cool stuff, thanks for being upfront about things."

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Yasumoto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-09-27 22:36:42 UTC
Been thinking on this one. When a company talks about a big announcement but reveals no details this is what it means for me:

1) The company / product team lead is in dire straits and is frantically trying to figure out either its finances or its execution plan on existing commitments... or both.

2) The company is about to make a big announncement regarding one or more current projects.

3) The company is about to announce a significant personnel change either at the very top or at the lowest rungs with layoffs.

4) The company is close to announcing a significant investor-related event, including a sale / buyout.

Anything else and the PR team is out-to-lunch and the team-lead doesn't have a clue how to manage client expectations. We have moved past three business days with no communication of substance (aside from Zulu's snarky forum reply).

Is it wrong to expect clearer communication from our service provider? Would it be too much to ask for a date on when we will have substantive communication?
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#17 - 2011-09-27 22:43:25 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
So how much of this new direction is because Incarna has fallen significantly behind schedule and can't be completed in the promised amount of time?
Like you, I haven't any idea if this is true or not. However, if it is, CCP should remember that we're a pretty reasonable bunch for the most part. If they came out and said, "We thought we could get it done, we couldn't, we are really, really, really sorry that we derped it up, but here's what we have so far tell us what you think" then most of us would nod our heads and say, "Cool stuff, thanks for being upfront about things."


Pretty much this. Its a lot better to admit that something isn't on track(maybe explaining the delays) and will take longer then expected, instead of just spewing out Soon™ all over the place.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-09-27 22:43:37 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
So how much of this new direction is because Incarna has fallen significantly behind schedule and can't be completed in the promised amount of time?
Like you, I haven't any idea if this is true or not. However, if it is, CCP should remember that we're a pretty reasonable bunch for the most part. If they came out and said, "We thought we could get it done, we couldn't, we are really, really, really sorry that we derped it up, but here's what we have so far tell us what you think" then most of us would nod our heads and say, "Cool stuff, thanks for being upfront about things."

but that's what they already did with Incursion...

spinning their failure to deliver into a whole new philosophy on the deployment of expansions and reaping pretty wide support from the community in return

you can only pull the same trick so many times before it stops working...
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#19 - 2011-09-27 23:32:37 UTC
I don't really care why they are changing directions to fis. I'm just glad they are changing directions.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#20 - 2011-09-27 23:37:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
Cearain wrote:
I don't really care why they are changing directions to fis. I'm just glad they are changing directions.


Oh but you should. The who, how, and why are very important. Just remember its not the destination thats important, but the journey.





Warning: I actually have no idea what I'm saying or if it is even relevant to the current topic.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
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