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Academies and getting back in one
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#1 - 2012-04-11 13:59:22 UTC
Hey,

Before I start bothering a CSM about something like this, I thought it would be a good idea to see if I'm not the only one that would appreciate the feature I'm about to propose.

Is there anyone out there, besides me, that would like the option to choose their NPC corp? Right now, I'm not suggesting switching from say an Amarr NPC corp to a Gallante one. But it would be nice if I could have an option to return to the Imperial Academy.

Academy corps are nice because I can be available to help newbies and because the atmosphere is different.

The mechanic is irrelevant to me. Whether it is easy or hard, it would just be nice to have the option, instead of never going back once I choose a player corp.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
BeforetheStorm90
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-04-11 15:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: BeforetheStorm90
First 6 months you should be able to join whatever npc corp you want. After that you get booted to a default player corp made for you and can never rejoin an npc corp. This would solve all such problems.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-04-11 15:07:25 UTC
So you want to be the 20 year old 12th grader.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#4 - 2012-04-11 15:19:31 UTC
There's a very good reason they don't let older players back into the starter corps.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#5 - 2012-04-11 15:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
@ Kicking alts into player corps after 6 months

The NPC starter corps are usually very helpful in regards to advice for noobs, a lot more so than rookie help which tbh is bloody useless, kicking characters into players corps after 6 months would deny noobs the font of knowledge that is currently available in NPC corp chat from the many players who have alts in NPC corps. The alts that are in NPC corps usually have a player of a couple of years or more experience behind them, I have an alt in one of the NPC corps and I've spoken to players that have mains in nullsec, wormholes, losec, faction warfare and gank corps, at the moment those players give out good advice based on experience to the newer players among us.

Force them to leave, and you lose that knowledge base, lets face it, we all like noobs, they're future targets or corp mates.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2012-04-11 15:29:54 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
@ Kicking alts into player corps after 6 months

The NPC starter corps are usually very helpful in regards to advice for noobs, a lot more so than rookie help which tbh is bloody useless, kicking characters into players corps after 6 months would deny noobs the font of knowledge that is currently available in NPC corp chat from the many players who have alts in NPC corps. The alts that are in NPC corps usually have a player of a couple of years or more experience behind them, I have an alt in one of the NPC corps and I've spoken to players that have mains in nullsec, wormholes, losec, faction warfare and gank corps, at the moment those players give out good advice based on experience to the newer players among us.

Force them to leave, and you lose that knowledge base, lets face it, we all like noobs, they're future targets or corp mates.


That is a very double-edged sword. Problem is that most of the vocal older players in starter NPC corps are eternal mission runners, who just give bad advice and plant false ideas into poor noobheads. They are the primary source of the fear for lowsec and PVP.

I think isolating these people from new players would improve the general atmosphere greatly.

.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#7 - 2012-04-11 15:38:10 UTC
Roime wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
@ Kicking alts into player corps after 6 months

The NPC starter corps are usually very helpful in regards to advice for noobs, a lot more so than rookie help which tbh is bloody useless, kicking characters into players corps after 6 months would deny noobs the font of knowledge that is currently available in NPC corp chat from the many players who have alts in NPC corps. The alts that are in NPC corps usually have a player of a couple of years or more experience behind them, I have an alt in one of the NPC corps and I've spoken to players that have mains in nullsec, wormholes, losec, faction warfare and gank corps, at the moment those players give out good advice based on experience to the newer players among us.

Force them to leave, and you lose that knowledge base, lets face it, we all like noobs, they're future targets or corp mates.


That is a very double-edged sword. Problem is that most of the vocal older players in starter NPC corps are eternal mission runners, who just give bad advice and plant false ideas into poor noobheads. They are the primary source of the fear for lowsec and PVP.

I think isolating these people from new players would improve the general atmosphere greatly.


I've seen so many new players suffer because of the lack of knowledge the older players that cling to the starter corps give out, they should be removed into the other NPC corps after a few months since some of them seem to never bother to experience the game beyond the mechanics they need to know for mining and mission running. They are a detriment to new players.

We've recently been taking on a few new players and helping them with advice and resources and they've learned more in a week or two of joining our corp than some seem to pick up in months of being in an NPC corp.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#8 - 2012-04-11 15:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
True, there are some risk averse mission runners who are stuck in their ways and opinions about how nullsec is full of scum, dangerous and hand out bad advice, double edged sword is a pretty good way of describing it. I never really thought about it in that way.

I still say that there is a fair bit of good advice available in NPC chat though, admittedly you have to sort out the decent stuff from the crap that some spout, and for a noob that can be very difficult.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teibor
Quay Industries
#9 - 2012-04-11 15:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Teibor
After reading the above comments all i can say is, dont tar every starter corp with the same brush. Center For Advanced Studies is probably the best starter corp that you could ever wish for and its full of older players and tbh, is more beneficial/useful than most player corps.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2012-04-11 15:48:31 UTC
Exactly.

Other problem are the insane quality differences between the starter corps, they are not all terrible- CAS, for example has a superb group that provides solid guidance, some have great chatter they do missions together... but some are so blatantly horrible and confused that I would have certainly quit EVE would I have ended in one of those.

And you can't really know what you get, you can't choose like real corps. Roll of dice can decide your EVE career, and that is unacceptable in my opinion.

I think the noob corps should be lead and supervised by CCP, or at least ISDs. They are the first impression for many players, and deserve more attention.

Meaningful content and factual, neutral advice ftw.

.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#11 - 2012-04-11 15:51:27 UTC
BeforetheStorm90 wrote:
First 6 months you should be able to join whatever npc corp you want. After that you get booted to a default player corp made for you and can never rejoin an npc corp. This would solve all such problems.


This would prevent alot of new players from staying in eve.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-04-11 15:54:07 UTC
BeforetheStorm90 wrote:
First 6 months you should be able to join whatever npc corp you want. After that you get booted to a default player corp made for you and can never rejoin an npc corp. This would solve all such problems.


Show me on the doll where the mean SWA corp touched you. Ill be sure to remove it next time.

-Vix

SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-04-11 15:55:14 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
True, there are some risk averse mission runners who are stuck in their ways and opinions about how nullsec is full of scum, dangerous and hand out bad advice, double edged sword is a pretty good way of describing it. I never really thought about it in that way.

I still say that there is a fair bit of good advice available in NPC chat though, admittedly you have to sort out the decent stuff from the crap that some spout, and for a noob that can be very difficult.



Mission farmer advice is the shittiest bunch of ******** crap that you can get in EVE.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#14 - 2012-04-11 15:59:47 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
BeforetheStorm90 wrote:
First 6 months you should be able to join whatever npc corp you want. After that you get booted to a default player corp made for you and can never rejoin an npc corp. This would solve all such problems.


This would prevent alot of new players from staying in eve.


What is "alot"?

Because, I bet it might actually keep some people in Eve who otherwise would have left due to TERRIBAD advice.

Two-edged sword, remember?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#15 - 2012-04-11 16:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Teibor wrote:
After reading the above comments all i can say is, dont tar every starter corp with the same brush. Center For Advanced Studies is probably the best starter corp that you could ever wish for and its full of older players and tbh, is more beneficial/useful than most player corps.

CAS isn't the only good starter corp. I spent a year in FNA on this character, and almost a year and a half in SAK on another - not out of laziness or fear of joining a player corp, but because I enjoyed the atmosphere and helpful people in the corp.

EDIT:

Darth Gustav wrote:
What is "alot"?

Uh... this?

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-11 16:08:33 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
True, there are some risk averse mission runners who are stuck in their ways and opinions about how nullsec is full of scum, dangerous and hand out bad advice, double edged sword is a pretty good way of describing it. I never really thought about it in that way.

I still say that there is a fair bit of good advice available in NPC chat though, admittedly you have to sort out the decent stuff from the crap that some spout, and for a noob that can be very difficult.


Mission farmer advice is the shittiest bunch of ******** crap that you can get in EVE.


Bitter Vet Clueless Copies trolling an ALTs are the worst, the advice they purposely give out is trying to set up people for failure so they can pad their kill boards **** me off the most.

Luckily the lot of them are clueless idiots for pissing me off and winding up in an npc corp nearly immediately.

-Vix

SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#17 - 2012-04-11 16:08:43 UTC
Roime wrote:
Exactly.

Other problem are the insane quality differences between the starter corps, they are not all terrible- CAS, for example has a superb group that provides solid guidance, some have great chatter they do missions together... but some are so blatantly horrible and confused that I would have certainly quit EVE would I have ended in one of those.

And you can't really know what you get, you can't choose like real corps. Roll of dice can decide your EVE career, and that is unacceptable in my opinion.

I think the noob corps should be lead and supervised by CCP, or at least ISDs. They are the first impression for many players, and deserve more attention.

Meaningful content and factual, neutral advice ftw.


I've not experienced an NPC corp for a long time but they do need some mentors in there to help get players started and stop the risk averse clueless morons from making them afraid of low sec and doing anything risky. Whenever I've been in NPC corps I avoid looking at corp chat as it makes my head hurt seeing some of the bad advice being offered there.

Perhaps what they could bring in is a certification scheme that allows players in NPC corps to be official mentors, not quite ISD but able to provide solid advice on fittings and gameplay in general. That would give someone for new players to listen to instead of those who never learn much about the game at all.

I'm glad to hear that there are good starter corps, perhaps CCP can talk to the people offering guidance in them about making a model they can use for such a certification scheme should they consider it.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-04-11 16:16:46 UTC
CCP approves of mentor activities done by CAS, SWA and many others and somehow are taken aback by the helpfulness and how uncharacteristic of their preconceptions the rookie corps where.

I hope they give us mentor more tools to work with.

-Vix

SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#19 - 2012-04-11 16:17:40 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Teibor wrote:
After reading the above comments all i can say is, dont tar every starter corp with the same brush. Center For Advanced Studies is probably the best starter corp that you could ever wish for and its full of older players and tbh, is more beneficial/useful than most player corps.

CAS isn't the only good starter corp. I spent a year in FNA on this character, and almost a year and a half in SAK on another - not out of laziness or fear of joining a player corp, but because I enjoyed the atmosphere and helpful people in the corp.

EDIT:

Darth Gustav wrote:
What is "alot"?

Uh... this?


Alot would like to play as well, its racist against them to try to prevent them from playing.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#20 - 2012-04-13 13:08:49 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
True, there are some risk averse mission runners who are stuck in their ways and opinions about how nullsec is full of scum, dangerous and hand out bad advice, double edged sword is a pretty good way of describing it. I never really thought about it in that way.

I still say that there is a fair bit of good advice available in NPC chat though, admittedly you have to sort out the decent stuff from the crap that some spout, and for a noob that can be very difficult.



Mission farmer advice is the shittiest bunch of ******** crap that you can get in EVE.


This is why I think people with pvp experience should be able to rotate back through the starter corps. Because sometimes I am between player corps, like right now. So I get dumped to NPC corp, and I'll be in an NPC corp for at least a few days while I fly back to the US and deal with the jet lag and other higher priorities of being back in the states after a year away...

Being back in a starter corp isn't about being a 20 year old student, its is being a mentor. To answer one comment. Some players really enjoy showing newbies all the potential of eve, that pvp isn't something you have to train up for years, it's something they can join in day two. Etc, etc..

All of my newbie corps have been sources of good info, without the spam of the help channel. And a lot fewer snide comments etc. Also, newbie corps always seem more active chat wise. Ministry of War is usually completely dead, where the academy was usually pretty active.


My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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